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03-03-2009, 04:08 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bophoto Quote
Just press Pentax/Samsung in top:
CyberPhoto AB - Personlig service på nätet
I see. Including all third party lenses. I see.
If counting everything, one should count lenses w/o SR as well (just to get the complete picture). Or ranges (shortest/longest; widest...).

Fit Canon: 127 lenses
Fit Nikon: 122 lenses
Fit Pentax: 76 lenses
Fit Sony: 64 lenses
Fit Olympus: 28 lenses

Still not bad...

03-03-2009, 05:33 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bophoto Quote
Of course they are nice, and itīs a lot of old M42 lenses that are sharp and good build too. But they are not modern lenses.
OK, now I know you're trolling.

So if Canon came out with a body with in-body shake reduction, those lenses would suddenly become modern?

Not denying it would not be nice to have SR on all glass. That is one thing I really miss about the K20D.

But calling Canon's high end offerings "not modern" because their bodies don't support SR is a little silly if you ask me. Honestly, instead of bagging on Canon and Nikon (and Sony now and then) why not focus on the brand you're using and how it can be made better? Imagine a K30D that would maintain all that's great about the K20D while adding say 6-7 fps and an autofocus system that can run neck and neck with the D700/D3 and 1-series bodies -- wouldn't that be freakin' awesome? Or would you just scoff at it because a "real" photographer can work around the shortcomings?
03-03-2009, 06:41 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Seriously, are you using SR so often that a lens without it becomes useless??
For me, yes.

I shoot mostly hand-held in available light. And there is not so much available light in Ireland.

In-body SR is the Pentax killer feature.
03-03-2009, 06:44 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Pentax has now 2 cameras at the market: K-m with 1 AF point and 4 RAW buffer and K20D - 13 month old with 2.9 fps.
They are both fine cameras. They will both take any photo you need, so what's the beef? Oh, and the K-m has 5 AF points... but I would only need one to take great shots.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I understand nothing in HOYA marketing.
I assume Hoya marketing understands nothing about you.

03-04-2009, 12:36 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
OK, now I know you're trolling.

So if Canon came out with a body with in-body shake reduction, those lenses would suddenly become modern?

Code:
Yes
Not denying it would not be nice to have SR on all glass. That is one thing I really miss about the K20D.

But calling Canon's high end offerings "not modern" because their bodies don't support SR is a little silly if you ask me. Honestly, instead of bagging on Canon and Nikon (and Sony now and then) why not focus on the brand you're using and how it can be made better? Imagine a K30D that would maintain all that's great about the K20D while adding say 6-7 fps and an autofocus system that can run neck and neck with the D700/D3 and 1-series bodies -- wouldn't that be freakin' awesome? Or would you just scoff at it because a "real" photographer can work around the shortcomings?
Well if you working in a studio, you donīt need SR or autofocus and perhaps a M42 lens works as well as a new one. So for you in that case, a M42 is modern or perfect. But Pentax and all the others are selling new lenses that cost up to 10 times more than good old second hand lenses, why?
Because many photographers like autofocus and IS, and perhaps to have a more compact lens with other new quality or only because itīs new. So a M42 are not a modern lens.

Am i "bagging on Canon and Nikon", were?
Or do you mean the lenses? Every time iīm on a Forum, i read about Pentax donīt have so many lenses or something and many of the writers are Canikons, so i make this post about lenses. Do that make me a troll, or you?

I have a Pentax system since -77, and make posts like 220 in:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/15728-dear-pentax-15.html
And:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/35782-pentax-scandinavia-shut-down.html

I have a K10D GP and i donīt need 6-7fps but a better autofocus is welcome and are coming(look at K-m/K2000). I also want voice recording, video and possibility to remote camera from computer. But perhaps K30D are going to be to expensive to me, i guess on 1700-2000$ for K30D with 18-55 in Sweden. because itīs probably going to be more advanced than K20D and the high prices on Pentax in Sweden now.
Or a K20D then they sell it out cheap.

Last edited by Bophoto; 03-04-2009 at 12:53 AM.
03-04-2009, 12:57 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
They are both fine cameras. They will both take any photo you need, so what's the beef? Oh, and the K-m has 5 AF points... but I would only need one to take great shots.
It's hard to say...Fine or not fine. It's not cameras for me now.
I'd prefer K30D with higher specs - close and even higher than 50D or D300.
p.s.
You can choose only central AF point in K-m.

p.p.s.
Pentax SR works a bit worse than Sony SSS and Olympus IS.
It's not important, of course.
As for me any stabilization is lottery and crutch for user.

Last edited by ogl; 03-04-2009 at 08:34 AM.
03-04-2009, 04:05 AM   #52
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For me it seems to be clear, that the curent situation, with only two very different camera bodies in the portfolio, cannot sustain Pentax' success. The last camera maker, that only had two DSLRs was Konica-Minolta...

The K200 would be needed as a minimum to fill the big gap between the K-m and the K20 and I can only hope, it will be available for longer - even after a top-end modell might have been introduced, as this would also not bridge the gap.

The problem with such a small "choice" of camera bodies is easily described: you limit the number of potential buyers, because many won't find the right camera for their needs or simply to fit the size of their hands. But if a company limits the number of buyers (Leica might also be a good example, and currently even Hasselblad), you can only survive by making them extraordinarily expensive and aim at the well-off customers. In the current economic climate this is not going to work (as Leica and Hasselblad testify) - and sure not for Pentax, as their cameras are simply not high-end, but workhorses.

The strategy of the successful (D)SLR camera makers was always:
  • one or two high-end modells for the pro's demands, which also transpoted the WOW-factor to the amateur market
  • some capable but much cheaper semi-pro modells for the better-off amateurs and as second/third bodies for the pros
  • some midrange modells for the typicall amateur market
  • one or two entry level modells for beginners

Obviously Pentax is lacking here. it is a similar situation we are facing with many lenses, which one expect as commodity products, but which were not available from Pentax for a long time. Even today there is still not even a hint on new fast long glass.

Pentax' strategy might have worked out in film days, when the investment in camera equipment was very long-lived. Many cameras had been in production for many years even decades. But since the advent of AF the innovation cycles got shorter and shorter. Pentax never got AF right in theri film cameras and is still behind today, though this is not as bad anymore as it used to be. But DSLRs are still very short-lived investments and the long development cycles Pentax seems to have are not adequate for this environment.

Working myself in the imaging market (and especially in marketing), I have some difficulties recognizing any valid strategy by Pentax. They are a nice bunch of people, that seem to have completely lost their directions - for a long time now. I hope, that Hoya can infuse some more stringent strategy into the Pentax brand.

I am not "trolling" as some people apply to simple fact finding. I have been a loyal Pentax photog for the last 28 years now and I don't intend to switch. I am just a bit sadened, that Pentax stirrs obviously not into any distinct direction, but seems to float motionsless on the wakes... That's not going to work indefinitely.

Ben
03-04-2009, 04:57 AM   #53
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very very well said Ben.

have no doubt you will be accused of trolling for daring to point out the obvious facts of the situation Pentax, and we, are in.

we all feel some loyalty and dedication to the pentax brand, otherwise we would not be on this fourm, but without that clear sign of a strategy of where its heading, and without knowing whether its going to follow the succesful model you mentioned of having a camera in all the segments, its difficult to remain enthused about ones individual future with the brand.

03-04-2009, 06:02 AM   #54
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What Pentax so far has revealed regarding the "K30D" is this:

- new AF software
- new AF hardware
- 14 MP sensor, improved
- changed body size
- 4.5/s speed
- improved lifeview (not sure)
03-04-2009, 06:11 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
What Pentax so far has revealed regarding the "K30D" is this:

- new AF software
- new AF hardware
- 14 MP sensor, improved
- changed body size
- 4.5/s speed
- improved lifeview (not sure)
I totally agree with your assessment. Spot on.
03-04-2009, 06:13 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
What Pentax so far has revealed regarding the "K30D" is this:

- new AF software
- new AF hardware
- 14 MP sensor, improved
- changed body size
- 4.5/s speed
- improved lifeview (not sure)
where did you hear / see this from ?
can you list a URL?

interesting enough the X70 has focus tracking.
maybe the k30 or whatever it will be called will include similar focus tracking algorithms.


tnx
jordan

Last edited by opiedog; 03-04-2009 at 06:16 AM. Reason: more text
03-04-2009, 06:32 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
What Pentax so far has revealed regarding the "K30D" is this:

- new AF software
- new AF hardware
- 14 MP sensor, improved
- changed body size
- 4.5/s speed
- improved lifeview (not sure)
I hope you are right but have not seen anything official to confirm what you are saying. Great rumors and that unit would get my money but again just rumors at this point.
03-04-2009, 07:52 AM   #58
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
What Pentax so far has revealed regarding the "K30D" is this:

- new AF software
- new AF hardware
- 14 MP sensor, improved
- changed body size
- 4.5/s speed
- improved lifeview (not sure)
That about sums up my wishlist, provided the following are also included:

1080p recording
better viewfinder (although if LV is improved, I'll take that)
better ISO 3200, with ISO 6400 looking like the K20's current 3200

Here's hoping!
03-04-2009, 07:55 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
What Pentax so far has revealed regarding the "K30D" is this:

- new AF software
- new AF hardware
- 14 MP sensor, improved
- changed body size
- 4.5/s speed
- improved lifeview (not sure)
Hmmm. My K10D is just the right size.
03-04-2009, 08:27 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
For me it seems to be clear, that the curent situation, with only two very different camera bodies in the portfolio, cannot sustain Pentax' success. The last camera maker, that only had two DSLRs was Konica-Minolta...

The K200 would be needed as a minimum to fill the big gap between the K-m and the K20 and I can only hope, it will be available for longer - even after a top-end modell might have been introduced, as this would also not bridge the gap.

The problem with such a small "choice" of camera bodies is easily described: you limit the number of potential buyers, because many won't find the right camera for their needs or simply to fit the size of their hands. But if a company limits the number of buyers (Leica might also be a good example, and currently even Hasselblad), you can only survive by making them extraordinarily expensive and aim at the well-off customers. In the current economic climate this is not going to work (as Leica and Hasselblad testify) - and sure not for Pentax, as their cameras are simply not high-end, but workhorses.

The strategy of the successful (D)SLR camera makers was always:
  • one or two high-end modells for the pro's demands, which also transpoted the WOW-factor to the amateur market
  • some capable but much cheaper semi-pro modells for the better-off amateurs and as second/third bodies for the pros
  • some midrange modells for the typicall amateur market
  • one or two entry level modells for beginners

Obviously Pentax is lacking here. it is a similar situation we are facing with many lenses, which one expect as commodity products, but which were not available from Pentax for a long time. Even today there is still not even a hint on new fast long glass.

Pentax' strategy might have worked out in film days, when the investment in camera equipment was very long-lived. Many cameras had been in production for many years even decades. But since the advent of AF the innovation cycles got shorter and shorter. Pentax never got AF right in theri film cameras and is still behind today, though this is not as bad anymore as it used to be. But DSLRs are still very short-lived investments and the long development cycles Pentax seems to have are not adequate for this environment.

Working myself in the imaging market (and especially in marketing), I have some difficulties recognizing any valid strategy by Pentax. They are a nice bunch of people, that seem to have completely lost their directions - for a long time now. I hope, that Hoya can infuse some more stringent strategy into the Pentax brand.

I am not "trolling" as some people apply to simple fact finding. I have been a loyal Pentax photog for the last 28 years now and I don't intend to switch. I am just a bit sadened, that Pentax stirrs obviously not into any distinct direction, but seems to float motionsless on the wakes... That's not going to work indefinitely.

Ben
+10 very good post!
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