Pentax X70 - Trumped already....

Buddha Jones · 03-02-2009, 07:18 PM

It would seem that Sony wants to get into the compact superzoom game, but they seem to have at least put some thought into their model...

Sony shows speedy CMOS superzoom | Crave - CNET

Quote:

Camera manufacturers seem to have chosen megazooms as their latest battlefield--and thankfully, the fight isn't just about who's got the biggest lens. In this case, the latest player comes from Sony, whose new Cyber-shot DSC-HX1 incorporates several technologies from its Alpha DSLR products, including a 1/2.4-inch 10-megapixel Exmor CMOS sensor (for 9-megapixel images) and 20X f2.8-5.2 28-560mm-equivalent optically stabilized lens based on the company's higher-quality G series lenses.

jake123 · 03-02-2009, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Buddha Jones

It would seem that Sony wants to get into the compact superzoom game, but they seem to have at least put some thought into their model...

Sony shows speedy CMOS superzoom | Crave - CNET

The pentax has sensor-shift stabilized 12mp CCD 24x 26-624mm-equivalent lens.

Pentax however only has 5mp 11fps burst mode. I wonder how the sony or pentax works for sports in bright sun...

dschlamp · 03-02-2009, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by Buddha Jones

It would seem that Sony wants to get into the compact superzoom game, but they seem to have at least put some thought into their model...

Sony shows speedy CMOS superzoom | Crave - CNET

Pentax: 12 MP, 1/2.33" CCD. Sony: 9 MP, 1/2.4" CMOS sensor
Pentax: ISO 6400. Sony: ISO 3200
Pentax: Sensor shift image stabilization. Sony: not sure (sounds like it might be software based, replying on a really fast, low noise sensor)
Pentax: 24X optical zoom. Sony: 20X optical zoom.
Pentax: 11 fps@ 5MP. Sony 10 fps@ 9MP
Pentax: ~720p movie. Sony 1080p movie.
Pentax: 410g weight (with battery). Sony 453g (no battery)
Pentax: 2.7" LCD. Sony 3" LCD.

Looks like both cameras have their strengths. I don't really see any trump here either way. Not like I would trade my K20D for either, but then I'm not the target market for this camera.
(edited to correct error - Sony is 1080p, not 1080i)

Buddha Jones · 03-02-2009, 10:10 PM

CMOS trumps CCD, end of story.

Steelski · 03-02-2009, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by Buddha Jones

CMOS trumps CCD, end of story.

Why do people insist that that is always true. ?????
this is one of the subjects people least know about, yet they feel its right to state CMOS is better than CCD.
Then why do medium format backs ONLY use CCD sensors.

Is noise at higher Iso the only criteria people measure a sensor by?

dschlamp · 03-02-2009, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by Buddha Jones

CMOS trumps CCD, end of story.

If you truly believe that, then why does your sig show that are you still using a K10D which has a CCD? The K20D with a CMOS sensor has been out for a year now. I somehow doubt that my mom or my co-workers (target market for this camera) would see a difference in the image quality between any $400-500 bridge camera that is on the market today.

Ratmagiclady · 03-02-2009, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Buddha Jones

CMOS trumps CCD, end of story.

Eh, I don't buy that at *all.* Not on a bridge camera, anyway. Tiny sensors, you have to go with what has qualities you like, and what delivers the specs. The Pentax has somewhat more in the MP department than the Sony... Depending how well these things *work,* and what you care about, the CCD could end up with better qualities than the smaller CMOS does.

Only thing is, this new Pentax bridge, unless they start saying what it's got to show off, is starting to look like a token effort, anyway.

ajuett · 03-02-2009, 11:01 PM

Sony makes cameras? ...they make nice TVs ;-)
Sony dSLRs are noisey and their P&S are worse.
Nothing to worry about.

RMabo · 03-02-2009, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by Buddha Jones

CMOS trumps CCD, end of story.

Before Pentax released the K20D with CMOS, Pentaxians said CCD trumps CMOS because CCD gives better colours instead of the "washed out watercolours" of the Canon CMOS.

gazonk · 03-02-2009, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by dschlamp

Pentax: ~720p movie. Sony 1080p movie.

The Pentax 720p mode is only 15mps - just like e.g. the W60. That's weak, and makes the camera uninteresting for me (if I were to have this as an extra camera, a very good movie mode would have been essential).

Ratmagiclady · 03-03-2009, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by RMabo

Before Pentax released the K20D with CMOS, Pentaxians said CCD trumps CMOS because CCD gives better colours instead of the "washed out watercolours" of the Canon CMOS.

Wasn't involved or invested in Pentax stuff at the time, myself, but in the realm of bridge cameras, where I was comparing a Lumix CCD to Canon CMOS, I found most of the Canon results I saw rather loud and harsh and such. In fact, Lumix was more often accused of being 'watercolorey' at least by people who didn't expose correctly and turn the NR down a bit.

Frankly, I think 'trumps' is just the wrong word, here. There is no 'trumps, not yet or on that basis, anyway. It's about how things are put together, especially, perhaps, for the average out-of-the-box bridge camera user.

My Pentax DSLR is aforementioned CMOS and actually tends to shy, in Jpeg, at least, from rendering anything any too brightly, (even in 'vibrant' mode, you've got to crank saturation to get really bold that way, and that's probably best done in post, anyway.)

With bridge cameras, most of the varying complaints about noise, in the end, seemed to be results of a) poor exposure or b) someone trying to cram in too many MP for the sensor size and firmware of the time, cause there was a 'race'on. I'd say both of these things are less about the kind of sensor, and more about how smart people were about applying them.

Jasvox · 03-03-2009, 12:19 AM

eh, maybe if the Sony had a better lens rather than just their standard branded one.

I bet the Sony will retail for $499

Either way, neither camera really concern me.

Jason

Ratmagiclady · 03-03-2009, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Jasvox

eh, maybe if the Sony had a better lens rather than just their standard branded one.

I bet the Sony will retail for $499

Either way, neither camera really concern me.

Jason

Pretty abstract, anyway, unless perchance the things had P-ttl shoes and you needed that.

Groucho · 03-03-2009, 05:33 AM

FWIW, the review of the Canon SX1 at Cameralabs, which has a new 10mp CMOS sensor, indicates that it has more noise than the SX10 which is virtually the same camera but with a 10mp CCD sensor.

Quote:

But these new features don’t make the SX1 IS a no-brainer over the SX10 IS. The switch in sensor technology from CCD to CMOS may equip the SX1 IS with HD video and fast continuous shooting, but pixel-peepers will notice slightly higher noise levels at every sensitivity – you can see this in our High ISO Noise results. We don’t consider the difference to be a deal-breaker, but it’s certainly there. Additionally, despite CMOS being a lower power technology, the SX1 IS eats through a set of rechargeables around 50% quicker than the SX10 IS.

pingflood · 03-03-2009, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by Buddha Jones

CMOS trumps CCD, end of story.

Really?

It's just now that CMOS is starting to catch up with CCD when it comes to actual imaging performance.

The advantage of CMOS is mostly price and speed.

03-02-2009, 07:18 PM	#1
Buddha Jones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,587	Pentax X70 - Trumped already.... It would seem that Sony wants to get into the compact superzoom game, but they seem to have at least put some thought into their model... Sony shows speedy CMOS superzoom \| Crave - CNET Quote: Camera manufacturers seem to have chosen megazooms as their latest battlefield--and thankfully, the fight isn't just about who's got the biggest lens. In this case, the latest player comes from Sony, whose new Cyber-shot DSC-HX1 incorporates several technologies from its Alpha DSLR products, including a 1/2.4-inch 10-megapixel Exmor CMOS sensor (for 9-megapixel images) and 20X f2.8-5.2 28-560mm-equivalent optically stabilized lens based on the company's higher-quality G series lenses.

03-02-2009, 10:23 PM	#5
Steelski Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Varna Posts: 470	why? Originally posted by Buddha Jones CMOS trumps CCD, end of story. Why do people insist that that is always true. ????? this is one of the subjects people least know about, yet they feel its right to state CMOS is better than CCD. Then why do medium format backs ONLY use CCD sensors. Is noise at higher Iso the only criteria people measure a sensor by?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Pentax X70	AlexM	Pentax Compact Cameras	64	04-19-2011 12:35 PM
Just purchased Pentax X70	flyinggabe	Pentax Compact Cameras	3	06-23-2009 04:42 PM
Pentax X70 - full specs and image!	MCR	Pentax News and Rumors	74	03-18-2009 08:03 AM
Pentax X70 bridge camera is here!	rparmar	Pentax Compact Cameras	41	03-07-2009 06:29 AM

03-02-2009, 08:50 PM	#2
jake123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 130	Originally posted by Buddha Jones It would seem that Sony wants to get into the compact superzoom game, but they seem to have at least put some thought into their model... Sony shows speedy CMOS superzoom \| Crave - CNET The pentax has sensor-shift stabilized 12mp CCD 24x 26-624mm-equivalent lens. Pentax however only has 5mp 11fps burst mode. I wonder how the sony or pentax works for sports in bright sun...

03-02-2009, 08:55 PM	#3
dschlamp New Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Westbank, BC Posts: 15	Originally posted by Buddha Jones It would seem that Sony wants to get into the compact superzoom game, but they seem to have at least put some thought into their model... Sony shows speedy CMOS superzoom \| Crave - CNET Pentax: 12 MP, 1/2.33" CCD. Sony: 9 MP, 1/2.4" CMOS sensor Pentax: ISO 6400. Sony: ISO 3200 Pentax: Sensor shift image stabilization. Sony: not sure (sounds like it might be software based, replying on a really fast, low noise sensor) Pentax: 24X optical zoom. Sony: 20X optical zoom. Pentax: 11 fps@ 5MP. Sony 10 fps@ 9MP Pentax: ~720p movie. Sony 1080p movie. Pentax: 410g weight (with battery). Sony 453g (no battery) Pentax: 2.7" LCD. Sony 3" LCD. Looks like both cameras have their strengths. I don't really see any trump here either way. Not like I would trade my K20D for either, but then I'm not the target market for this camera. (edited to correct error - Sony is 1080p, not 1080i)

03-02-2009, 10:10 PM	#4
Buddha Jones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,587 Original Poster	CMOS trumps CCD, end of story.

03-02-2009, 10:45 PM	#6
dschlamp New Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Westbank, BC Posts: 15	Originally posted by Buddha Jones CMOS trumps CCD, end of story. If you truly believe that, then why does your sig show that are you still using a K10D which has a CCD? The K20D with a CMOS sensor has been out for a year now. I somehow doubt that my mom or my co-workers (target market for this camera) would see a difference in the image quality between any $400-500 bridge camera that is on the market today.

03-02-2009, 10:51 PM	#7
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Buddha Jones CMOS trumps CCD, end of story. Eh, I don't buy that at all. Not on a bridge camera, anyway. Tiny sensors, you have to go with what has qualities you like, and what delivers the specs. The Pentax has somewhat more in the MP department than the Sony... Depending how well these things work, and what you care about, the CCD could end up with better qualities than the smaller CMOS does. Only thing is, this new Pentax bridge, unless they start saying what it's got to show off, is starting to look like a token effort, anyway.

03-02-2009, 11:01 PM	#8
ajuett Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 1,100	Sony makes cameras? ...they make nice TVs ;-) Sony dSLRs are noisey and their P&S are worse. Nothing to worry about.

03-02-2009, 11:11 PM	#9
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Originally posted by Buddha Jones CMOS trumps CCD, end of story. Before Pentax released the K20D with CMOS, Pentaxians said CCD trumps CMOS because CCD gives better colours instead of the "washed out watercolours" of the Canon CMOS.

03-02-2009, 11:50 PM	#10
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by dschlamp Pentax: ~720p movie. Sony 1080p movie. The Pentax 720p mode is only 15mps - just like e.g. the W60. That's weak, and makes the camera uninteresting for me (if I were to have this as an extra camera, a very good movie mode would have been essential).

03-03-2009, 12:17 AM	#11
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by RMabo Before Pentax released the K20D with CMOS, Pentaxians said CCD trumps CMOS because CCD gives better colours instead of the "washed out watercolours" of the Canon CMOS. Wasn't involved or invested in Pentax stuff at the time, myself, but in the realm of bridge cameras, where I was comparing a Lumix CCD to Canon CMOS, I found most of the Canon results I saw rather loud and harsh and such. In fact, Lumix was more often accused of being 'watercolorey' at least by people who didn't expose correctly and turn the NR down a bit. Frankly, I think 'trumps' is just the wrong word, here. There is no 'trumps, not yet or on that basis, anyway. It's about how things are put together, especially, perhaps, for the average out-of-the-box bridge camera user. My Pentax DSLR is aforementioned CMOS and actually tends to shy, in Jpeg, at least, from rendering anything any too brightly, (even in 'vibrant' mode, you've got to crank saturation to get really bold that way, and that's probably best done in post, anyway.) With bridge cameras, most of the varying complaints about noise, in the end, seemed to be results of a) poor exposure or b) someone trying to cram in too many MP for the sensor size and firmware of the time, cause there was a 'race'on. I'd say both of these things are less about the kind of sensor, and more about how smart people were about applying them.

03-03-2009, 12:19 AM	#12
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	eh, maybe if the Sony had a better lens rather than just their standard branded one. I bet the Sony will retail for $499 Either way, neither camera really concern me. Jason

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-03-2009, 12:21 AM	#13
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Jasvox eh, maybe if the Sony had a better lens rather than just their standard branded one. I bet the Sony will retail for $499 Either way, neither camera really concern me. Jason Pretty abstract, anyway, unless perchance the things had P-ttl shoes and you needed that.

03-03-2009, 05:33 AM	#14
Groucho Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 416	FWIW, the review of the Canon SX1 at Cameralabs, which has a new 10mp CMOS sensor, indicates that it has more noise than the SX10 which is virtually the same camera but with a 10mp CCD sensor. Quote: But these new features don’t make the SX1 IS a no-brainer over the SX10 IS. The switch in sensor technology from CCD to CMOS may equip the SX1 IS with HD video and fast continuous shooting, but pixel-peepers will notice slightly higher noise levels at every sensitivity – you can see this in our High ISO Noise results. We don’t consider the difference to be a deal-breaker, but it’s certainly there. Additionally, despite CMOS being a lower power technology, the SX1 IS eats through a set of rechargeables around 50% quicker than the SX10 IS.

03-03-2009, 05:41 AM	#15
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by Buddha Jones CMOS trumps CCD, end of story. Really? It's just now that CMOS is starting to catch up with CCD when it comes to actual imaging performance. The advantage of CMOS is mostly price and speed.