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03-27-2009, 10:43 AM   #16
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having a registration distance less than what is actually needed just means a shallower focus corridor (and the ability to focus past infinity!)

atleast thats what happened when i made my Chinon 50mm extend closer to the mirror than it did originally.

03-27-2009, 10:52 AM   #17
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Samsung and Panasonic will both fail with this new mount.

Said it before, and I'll keep saying it.

It will take way too much marketing, way too much money to start a new mount and make it successful. The only market that will continue to grow and be successful is the current changing/morphing DSLR market.

No matter what DPR or PoPPhoto .. or anyone else says.

At best Pana/Samsung will be a small niche market.

Really good compacts like the GX200, G10, LX3 are the way to go below DSLR and cost much less to manufacture.
03-27-2009, 12:42 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rush2112 Quote
..........
Really good compacts like the GX200, G10, LX3 are the way to go below DSLR and cost much less to manufacture.
Kompactcameras are good then you donīt have your real cameras with you, on your work, on your way to the shop and so on. But they have to small sensors.

Then the EVF been ok about low light in future, there are no need for a DSLR with itīs load mirror.
03-27-2009, 01:14 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rush2112 Quote
Samsung and Panasonic will both fail with this new mount.

Said it before, and I'll keep saying it.

It will take way too much marketing, way too much money to start a new mount and make it successful. The only market that will continue to grow and be successful is the current changing/morphing DSLR market.

No matter what DPR or PoPPhoto .. or anyone else says.

At best Pana/Samsung will be a small niche market.

Really good compacts like the GX200, G10, LX3 are the way to go below DSLR and cost much less to manufacture.
I think you over estimate the importance of a mount to someone just starting; such as a soccer mom. We bought my mother a Sony A200 last year for Mothers Day; she couldn't care less that it can use legacy glass from Minolta. Outside of forums I never hear lens mount debates from anyone. Go to Best Buy sometime and watch people try out SLR's for the first time and listen to the questions they ask. Lens mount and years of legacy glass aren't concerns at all. But you know what I hear every single time? "How do I use the LCD to frame up a photo?" EVIL cameras are going to answer that question for them real quick.

I think nice compacts such as the LX3 could be the answer too, but being stuck with just one lens is a problem. I think the Oly m4/3's mock up has the most potential. Parents could buy a telephoto for their kids games/school events, then a smaller lens to use when on vacation. Neither the LX3 or the G10 are going to be able to get a nice snap of your kid as he rounds 1st base.


Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 03-27-2009 at 01:21 PM.
03-27-2009, 03:22 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rush2112 Quote
Samsung and Panasonic will both fail with this new mount.

Said it before, and I'll keep saying it.

It will take way too much marketing, way too much money to start a new mount and make it successful. The only market that will continue to grow and be successful is the current changing/morphing DSLR market.

No matter what DPR or PoPPhoto .. or anyone else says.

At best Pana/Samsung will be a small niche market.

Really good compacts like the GX200, G10, LX3 are the way to go below DSLR and cost much less to manufacture.
Say what you will, if the new Pentax doesn't have video at a reasonable price, and the NX has a kmount adaptor, I'm switching.
03-27-2009, 04:02 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by nixcamic Quote
Say what you will, if the new Pentax doesn't have video at a reasonable price, and the NX has a kmount adaptor, I'm switching.
K20D already has video. Unless you don't consider 21fps "proper" video. In which case 500D doesn't have video either.
03-27-2009, 04:23 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rush2112 Quote

It will take way too much marketing, way too much money to start a new mount and make it successful. The only market that will continue to grow and be successful is the current changing/morphing DSLR market.

Really good compacts like the GX200, G10, LX3 are the way to go below DSLR and cost much less to manufacture.
Couldn't disagree with you more. Samsung might muck up their design because of ignorance but somebody is going to hit the market with a small interchangeable lens EVIL unit that is going to become a major force. Us non film based shooters want it and we are the major portion of the market. If someone creates a unit with AF as fast as the Sony A 700 and they use an APS-C size sensor I'll buy it in a New York minute along with two or three lenses regardless of mount.
03-27-2009, 06:36 PM   #23
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In the manual focus days, there were tons of odd 135 SLR mounts. The Fuji mount, Contax mount, Mamiya mount, 110 film and Olympus OM/Pen F. Any those who couldn't transition to AF died out slowly. And then we step into the digital age. That transition killed of tons of film and medium format companies as well.

I agree nowadays its almost impossible to start a bland now mount. Let's face it Micro 4/3 or NX will never get as much marketing push behind it as the APS film cameras. And that didn't last long either.

03-28-2009, 06:45 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by whatever7 Quote
K20D already has video. Unless you don't consider 21fps "proper" video. In which case 500D doesn't have video either.
The 500D does 30fps 720p for half an hour. The K20D does 21fps for like 10 seconds. I think theres a difference there. If not for video, I'd take a K20D over anything not FF that canikon offers.
03-28-2009, 07:01 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by nixcamic Quote
The 500D does 30fps 720p for half an hour. The K20D does 21fps for like 10 seconds. I think theres a difference there. If not for video, I'd take a K20D over anything not FF that canikon offers.
I thought the same. Esp. the 5DmkII video feature I found appealing.

But then I read an article by a Pro video maker about the 5DmkII. First of all, he said that its video mode is impertinent. If not for its unparalleled image quality with DoF and low light qualities, it would just have to be ignored. But it has these qualities, of course. What is lacking is everything else, almost. Focussing, exposure and zooming while shooting are impossible. Everything is preset. He had to work with a large external monitor connected to live view output to make any use out of it at all (for all manual control)

So, to some extent, the video mode offered by any DSLR right now is a gimmick, i.e., an engineer's after-thought.

Maybe, the K20D gets a 1/10 only. But then, a 5DmkII gets a 3/10 only as well. So, it doesn't really matter.
03-28-2009, 07:41 PM   #26
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I'm not above using an external monitor, although I would like proper video without having to use anything external, if this next generation of cameras doesn't have it, I'm pretty sure its going to be out of my reach for quite a while. Whats the video on the Panasonic like?
03-28-2009, 08:28 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by nixcamic Quote
Whats the video on the Panasonic like?
I haven't read any real reviews yet, but their sample movies look promising:
DMC-GH1 | PRODUCTS | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global

The rotating LCD instantly makes the G1 seem like a more viable option for video to me if nothing else. I am extremely excited about these kinds of cameras though. I don't always want a jack of all trades camera if I'm shooting portraits or landscapes, but EVIL's will be great for trips, family pics, and just general photography. The low weight is awfully appealing to me when hiking too. You really start to feel 13lbs of SLR gear after the first mile.

I really think once people get their hands on these in big box stores they are going to wipe the floor with entry level SLR's like the Rebel, D60, K2000, etc. Had the GH1 been out last year I am 100% certain my mother would have that now instead of a Sony A200. The GH1 is exactly what she wanted; it just didn't exist at the time.
03-29-2009, 07:08 AM   #28
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I think that the market share that 4/3 system is currently occupying is witness to both how successful it is and also to how difficult it is to penetrate this pretty saturated market to start with. I don't think that micro 4/3 or new Samsung system is destined to fail. But it's going to be a challenge for the manufacturers, that's for sure.

OTOH, if they produce a small camera with good K-mount adapter and good 40/1.7 lens, I might buy this camera and the lens for my daughter and as an emergency backup camera for me.
03-29-2009, 09:36 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Thanks for hinting me at the Panasonic GH1. I wasn't aware of the video update to the G1.

However, where did you see sample videos? I only saw thumbnail-sized snippets.

The spec (17 Mbps, 1080i, not 1080p) is certainly much lower spec than the 5DmkII.
03-29-2009, 07:34 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Thanks for hinting me at the Panasonic GH1. I wasn't aware of the video update to the G1.

However, where did you see sample videos? I only saw thumbnail-sized snippets.

The spec (17 Mbps, 1080i, not 1080p) is certainly much lower spec than the 5DmkII.
According to their product specs the GH1 does video a 24fps @1080p or 720p @ 60fps.

Of course I'd be perfectly happy with 720p so long as the autofocus is good and there's no motion jiggle like the D90 produces. Plus, again, the importance of the rotating LCD can't be under estimated. I'd hate to try and shoot video in an SLR form factor without that. All their samples have been downsized on their site, you can see shallow DOF in some, and quick moving motion in others. I'm not too worried about resolution; I'm sure that will be fine.
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