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03-30-2009, 03:48 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
.....
However, where did you see sample videos? I only saw thumbnail-sized snippets.
.............
DMC-GH1 | PRODUCTS | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global
DMC-GH1 | PRODUCTS | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global
And its more.

03-30-2009, 04:42 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
According to their product specs the GH1 does video a 24fps @1080p or 720p @ 60fps.
According to Panasonic:
Full-HD (1920 1080) movies are output by the image sensor at 24p (NTSC) / 25p (PAL), and recorded at 60i (NTSC) / 50i (PAL). HD (1280 720) movies are output and recorded by the image sensor at 60p (NTSC) / 50p (PAL).
So, 1080@24p is not recordable. Only a (3:2?) pull-up @60i. Slightly better in Europe (1:1 pull-up) @50i. 17 Mbps isn't good.

Thanks, but these are the thumbnail-sized snippets I was talking about. We talk about HDTV quality, don't we? So, where are the samples, I ask you?

If I only want 17 Mbps H.264 at 1080@60i, I get myself a cheap HD video cam. The 5DmkII at least, records at 1080@30p and 38.4 Mbps H.264. Which I consider to be an appropriate rate for video with a camera with a FT sensor or larger.
03-30-2009, 05:55 PM   #33
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Where do I get myself a cheap HD video cam with the DOF control of the GH1?
03-30-2009, 06:25 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by nixcamic Quote
Where do I get myself a cheap HD video cam with the DOF control of the GH1?
You cant. But you can get everything else that the 5D does not have.

For a lot of movie uses, shallow DOF is frankly a right pain in the a*s especially if you can only focus manually using the live view screen - try doing that without wobbling all over the place.

With a telephoto lens, even at F8, its going to be hard - very hard - to keep anything at critical focus unless its some way off.

03-30-2009, 08:17 PM   #35
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So apparently people are considering using DSLRs with video for home video type stuff? I was never considering it for that, camcorders are cheap as dirt. I wanted it because some friends and I make short films, and the only options for creative DOF control before video DSLRs came out were $20000 video cameras, or 35mm photographic adaptors that project the image from a SLR lens onto a plate of ground glass in front of a camcorder lens, and adds all sorts of complications. I would agree that as a replacement for traditional camcorders video SLRs aren't very good.
03-30-2009, 11:32 PM   #36
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Ok

QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Couldn't disagree with you more. Samsung might muck up their design because of ignorance but somebody is going to hit the market with a small interchangeable lens EVIL unit that is going to become a major force. Us non film based shooters want it and we are the major portion of the market. If someone creates a unit with AF as fast as the Sony A 700 and they use an APS-C size sensor I'll buy it in a New York minute along with two or three lenses regardless of mount.
Someone, who?

I'll sit back and watch companies like panasonic struggle to try and bring in a new niche and dominate the arena.

They won't, sorry.

A niche market will not take over the SLR style camera. Not everyone wants a smaller more compact camera that doesn't rival the best image quality an APS-C or FF DLSR will afford.

In fact only a minority do. And thats fine, they just will never be as successful.



Carl
03-30-2009, 11:47 PM   #37
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well

QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I think you over estimate the importance of a mount to someone just starting; such as a soccer mom. We bought my mother a Sony A200 last year for Mothers Day; she couldn't care less that it can use legacy glass from Minolta. Outside of forums I never hear lens mount debates from anyone. Go to Best Buy sometime and watch people try out SLR's for the first time and listen to the questions they ask. Lens mount and years of legacy glass aren't concerns at all. But you know what I hear every single time? "How do I use the LCD to frame up a photo?" EVIL cameras are going to answer that question for them real quick.

I think nice compacts such as the LX3 could be the answer too, but being stuck with just one lens is a problem. I think the Oly m4/3's mock up has the most potential. Parents could buy a telephoto for their kids games/school events, then a smaller lens to use when on vacation. Neither the LX3 or the G10 are going to be able to get a nice snap of your kid as he rounds 1st base.
Why do you think I overestimate? Look at the sales figures, look at the amount of money that DSLR's make. Look at Panasonic's new idea barely catch a fraction of the market. Yes it is early I am aware of this. My prediction is my opinion. Panasonic is throwing a ton of money at the market and adverts like DPR and PopPhoto with hopes that it will catch on in a big way. But it won't. It will just continue to serve a niche.

Those that are very serious buy into a complete system, not just a new camera body and a new lens lineup, and learn how to use an optical viewfinder... millions have. Its called a learning curve. Evf's and liveview aren't going to dissuade a learning curve and besides, most DSLR's have live view now. Why not have the best of both worlds, an optical and electronic view?

E.V. cameras have been around for years, and they all sell like crap in comparison to the DSLR market. The R-1 was as close to a DSLR with an EV etc as the new hybrids are, and about the same in price, why then did it sell so horribly? It certainly gained respect from just about every media outlet and had a very loyal following. Yet Sony stated the R-1 didn't sell well.

Super zooms will continue to sell well, and when/if a photographer gets a bit more serious than that, they will move up to a DSLR as a majority.

Thats all my point is here.

5 years from now we'll have long forgot about this conversation but I will remember my prediction.

Carl
03-31-2009, 06:43 AM   #38
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Well, more like in 5 weeks I'll have forgotten this conversation

That said, just what percentage of users do you think buy multi-lens kits? Most SLR owners I know have either one, or at tops two lenses and no external flash. Those that own one lens usually have an 18-2xx because they think it can do everything. All the rest have the matching consumer telephoto to go with their 18-55mm. Us geeks that spend thousands on glass are the exception, not the rule.

And you're doing the G1 a disservice to base any performance predictions based on EV cameras from the past such as the R1. That's like looking at an optical view finder in Oly E-420 and saying, optical view finders are dim & tiny, they will never catch on. The EVF in the G1 is in a different league from all others I've seen. Also, as far as the R1 goes; what a ridiculous idea that was. It was no smaller than an SLR, just as expensive, and you couldn't change the lens. Outside of live view it offered no advantage over a DSLR.

Plus, I still say that millions haven't bought into DSLR's because they want bulk or OVF's, they bought into them because their smaller cameras couldn't autofocus fast enough or because the IQ was cruddy. So they had no other choice since until now no one has made a smaller option. EVIL's also solve both of those problems, and with less of a learning curve to boot.

All that said; DSLR's are still only 7% of the market. Most people simply do not want to carry around a camera bag just to take pics.


Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 03-31-2009 at 06:48 AM.
03-31-2009, 07:16 AM   #39
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reason for video in new model

Chris MacAskill : photos : Paris and San Franciso videos by night- powered by SmugMug


this is canon 5D footage ..... no video camera under $50,000 is doing this kind of video in no way whatsoever .....

not with the dynamic range, not with the low light, not with the depth of field,

video guys have it ripped, we want the creative control we with our SLRS and are tired of the compromise we've always had to put up with because of CCD technology and tape formats. we want beautiful moving pictures.
03-31-2009, 07:23 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by txsbluesguy Quote
we want beautiful moving pictures.
Hear, hear!
03-31-2009, 11:12 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rush2112 Quote
Someone, who?
A niche market will not take over the SLR style camera. Not everyone wants a smaller more compact camera that doesn't rival the best image quality an APS-C or FF DLSR will afford.

In fact only a minority do. And thats fine, they just will never be as successful.



Carl
I think you misunderstood what I said. Smaller, yes. EVIL, yes. Images quality equal to the K20D, yes. AF speed and Low light focusing equal to a Sony A 700, yes. A unit like that would be much more than a niche item even with a new mount.
03-31-2009, 11:33 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
I think you misunderstood what I said. Smaller, yes. EVIL, yes. Images quality equal to the K20D, yes. AF speed and Low light focusing equal to a Sony A 700, yes. A unit like that would be much more than a niche item even with a new mount.
An unit like that would make the current APS-C cameras a niche item
03-31-2009, 11:47 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by txsbluesguy Quote
Chris MacAskill : photos : Paris and San Franciso videos by night- powered by SmugMug


this is canon 5D footage ..... no video camera under $50,000 is doing this kind of video in no way whatsoever .....

not with the dynamic range, not with the low light, not with the depth of field,

video guys have it ripped, we want the creative control we with our SLRS and are tired of the compromise we've always had to put up with because of CCD technology and tape formats. we want beautiful moving pictures.
People who are willing to spend 3k+ on video equipment value workflow, control economic and other factors much higher than vacation shooters. Until production videographers adopte 5DII en mass, it is just a novelty tool that can compliment their main machine instead of replacing it.

Plus, RED is not as expensive as you said. Plus plus, people are still not replacing their Sony/Panasonic prosumer cams with RED. There are reasons for it,
03-31-2009, 12:25 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote

For a lot of movie uses, shallow DOF is frankly a right pain in the a*s especially if you can only focus manually using the live view screen - try doing that without wobbling all over the place.
Thus, the new panasonic m4/3 HD lenses, with stepless aperture and AF during video. Not to mention in-lens stabilization; not so wobbly after all. And have you manually focused on a live monitor? It's not that hard, and truly critical focus isn't a huge deal when your image is 11280 pixels wide at its longest dimension and moving.

Regarding shallow DOF and video, there's a reason I turn the lights down and zoom in and open up the aperture when shooting video with our studio camera. Shallow dof is a problem for home videos but most customers likely to buy the GH1 are interested in something with a bit more creative control, I would suspect.
03-31-2009, 09:05 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by txsbluesguy Quote
Chris MacAskill : photos : Paris and San Franciso videos by night- powered by SmugMug


this is canon 5D footage ..... no video camera under $50,000 is doing this kind of video in no way whatsoever .....

not with the dynamic range, not with the low light, not with the depth of field,

video guys have it ripped, we want the creative control we with our SLRS and are tired of the compromise we've always had to put up with because of CCD technology and tape formats. we want beautiful moving pictures.
HOLY SH*T! When the hell are we going to get something like this from Pentax?! That clarity is spectacular!!! What's the new 5D cost though- $2,000?

EDIT: Looks like it's closer to $3,000 actually. haha, there's a BIG difference in cost between our $1000 (initial price) K20D and a $3000 5D... I don't feel that bad about not seeing this kind of features on our line-up now. If they put video on the 645D that's coming out, I'm sure it'd completely blow that stuff out of the water!
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