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03-10-2009, 05:22 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by cateto Quote
Wrong: the biggest thing they are doing (and for a longtime already) is putting an extremely solid OS (OS X) as the foundation for all their efforts, from Macs to iPhones. And to put the huge capabilites of such a system with the best interface out there. THAT is what they are doing, and on top of it, impressive marketing. But without the foundation, the marketing would fail. All the mutibillion Microsoft dollars supporting Vista didn't prevent it from being perceived by many consumers as a catastrophic OS.
Well, I honestly don't think Microsoft's marketing is any good. Big budget, yes, but nary a good advertisement (the Gates and Seinfeld ad was very weird). Vista got hosed because, yes, it doesn't offer anywhere near a good experience as compared to XP (and the number of incompatible apps have been numerous), more of eyecandy and not much more. Another point of failure is the stratification of Vista editions that caused confusion among possible upgraders (too much hassle and dollars for not much improvement).

Like I said, marketing is the biggest thing they're doing *now*, because they've already put the foundations for a solid base a long time ago. No, I'm not denigrating Apple's efforts when I say that, and I applaud them for the stable Unix base OS X is founded on. I haven't read about OS X being used in the iPhone, so I'll just trust you on that.

We can agree about their impressive marketing, as they laid the foundation for all overly fantastic Super Bowl ads we're seeing today (the 1984 ad is still awesome even viewed today).

QuoteOriginally posted by cateto Quote
Once more I would like to stress that I did not say anything offensive to anybody. Using the green button all the time is nothing bad: is just one way of doing photography. I am fully aware that there are many talented photographers using other brands, including Canon and Nikon for sure. I stated above that I respect a lot Nikon offerings, and the D700 in particular looks mighty impressive to me. Nothing wrong with them (or maybe, something wrong, but I won't digress further). My ONLY point is that, in my very humble opinion, if you analyze the dSLR market today and you forget about prejudices, in the entry-to-mid range, the proposals of Olympus and Pentax make much more sense than those of Canon or Nikon. And moreso, if you look at the price-per-feature figures. But obviously Canon and Nikon make very capable cameras, and obviously their users are not moron.

I have clear opinions on what users are behind every brand, but that does not mean that I think that only those that agree with me are good photographers while the rest are stupid.
Oh, no question about the price-to-performance ratio. I find Pentax extremely competitive in that line. I have a better understanding of where you're coming from now. Thanks.

QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Pentax are aware of that and I think they know whats required. When the K20D came out, they had a relatively short time to get the new sensor and IP engine to work, add lots of new firmware featres, but had no time to upgrade the mechanical aspects of the body in more than cosmetic ways (though this is no different from Canon with the 10D, 20D......50D series). If they can reuse the sensor then there is scope to develop other things.

Evolution not revolution. I doubt we are talking about 1D performance though. Pentax are not primarily a sports cam maker.
I'm very much impressed by the sensor in the K20D. I think with a minor tweak to the circuitry, they can even make ISO 6400 more usable. I just look at the mileage Pentax got from the Sony 10 MP sensor and I have no doubt they can work similar magic on the 14 MP sensor. No need to change that sensor in the short term, in my opinion, especially now that Olympus has put a temporary stop to their megapixel count in their system (I suspect others will simply make do with a sensor with an MP count better than 12 MP - to trump Oly in marketing - and stay there also).

I'm okay with non-1D, non-class-leading performance. Just improvements in performance over their current products is okay for me, and I suspect, also okay with others who haven't upgraded their old Pentax DSLRs yet. And they can go full throttle with working on the niche they're targeting (which I suspect is sealed cameras - a good choice, I believe, looking at the cameras announced at PMA).

QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
hey Vinzer, see my post above??

how about the ability to record the GPS coordinates of not only where you are standing, but also of the coordinates of the point you are focusing on..??

u could go year after year and repeat the exact same shot, point for point and compare how it changes!
Well, that might take better electronics and algorithms, but I guess those smart engineers can do something like that. I'm guessing something like an internal compass and taking into account the focal length used to take the photo can give those coordinates of the photo one had just taken.

For now, I'll just have to let my friends approximate what exact point I was focusing on.

Or maybe they can try to find another perspective to shoot from the same spot. That would be an interesting exercise.

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Pentax and Oly should not do the same as Nikon & Canon, then people might as well buy those products. They should continue to carve out their niche, with shake reduction, weathersealing, great and light primes, and so far continue with cropped sensor and get the most out of it.
Pentax has generally been a conservative company, so innovation are more in line with their historic products, like Laurent writes here :
"Pentax side-stepping"!!
Pentax is preparing for its famous move!: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

What could be a likely new cam, would be a limited edition model, low weight, with great built quality. A Km, built like the MZ-S. Who knows, but we’ll see this summer.

K10 was a revolution, and put Pentax firmly on the map again. Who cares that most stores don’t know Pentax. This is exactly what draws the special crowd. Every Joe Schmuck has heard of C&N, I buy Pentax to go for the refined choice. It has never been the point of Pentax to battle it out on top with C&N. They should instead lie in the slipstream, and pick up the users that doesn’t quite fit into the big boxes of C&N. The ones that hate how Canon deliberately cripples their smaller models, or Nikon bringing out cams that can’t take a majority of Nikon lenses.

Touchscreen or 1/4" thick, are P&S cams. The latest moves by Pentax have been pretty distinguished. K10, which was a bomb, and captured big market segments, K20 which brought Samsung and Pentax right on cutting edge sensor wise, in their first try, Km – the smallest camera with Shake Reduction. These are cameras that fall just outside the scope of C&N offerings. Continue this, and you have a market sorted out.

A comrade of mine knows nothing about photography, and just bought what the guy in the store talked about. He had no idea what accessories that he had gotten; where for his sony video cam, or for his rebel DSLR. Pentax are more for the people really doing their homework, and who thinks it is fun to try something different. Something that not everybody has. All markets have niche, find one and continue to carve it out, and you can live well.

We can’t touch C&N in their top series, their Pro models are very good. But the big money is made in entry and middle segment.

I think it is a smart move to only release 645D in Japan. Most studio Pros will know of Pentax medium format. So one comes across a guy who has the digital Pentax medium format, "where on earth did you get that ?", and then the ball starts rolling. All about distinguishing yourself and allowing people to make the conscious choice.
Good post!

I'm okay with Pentax finding a niche to go into (SR and weather-sealing will fit right in with me), but people are probably just confused and frustrated with the overly vague statements Hoya has put out more than anything else. Can we all agree that Hoya needs to be more clear in putting out statements?

03-10-2009, 05:23 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by RuiC Quote
Sorry for the delay. I got lost here

United States Patent Application: 0080075454

RuiC
Very interesting !!

Anybody manage to view the images in there ? Even with Quicktime installed, all I get is blank page after blank page.
03-10-2009, 07:40 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I remeber it was Wifi but then I might be wrong...
You know. I think you're right. I think the rumors were GPS but reality was WiFi. Thanx for the correction.
03-10-2009, 09:02 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
Very interesting !!

Anybody manage to view the images in there ? Even with Quicktime installed, all I get is blank page after blank page.
quicktimes useless for this purpose.
You need a special TIFF viewer.
Mines this one:
http://www.internetiff.com/

03-10-2009, 09:41 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
quicktimes useless for this purpose.
You need a special TIFF viewer.
Yet that's the plug-in the site wants us to install to view the images... :ugh:
03-10-2009, 10:58 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
right in with me), but people are probably just confused and frustrated with the overly vague statements Hoya has put out more than anything else. Can we all agree that Hoya needs to be more clear in putting out statements?
not only should Hoya be more clear in their statements, they should also thank this site by name and a number of individuals here for the excellent upgrade ideas and advanced features ideas .. and admit without this site and our ideas, they'd be at a loss on what to do next..!!


.......then give their latest FF dslr for free to everyone on here !!
03-11-2009, 04:27 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
not only should Hoya be more clear in their statements, they should also thank this site by name and a number of individuals here for the excellent upgrade ideas and advanced features ideas .. and admit without this site and our ideas, they'd be at a loss on what to do next..!!


.......then give their latest FF dslr for free to everyone on here !!
Apparently a lot gets lost in translation. Here's kimpira's translation of the recent Japanese interview. All in all, it sounds pretty good. I'd definitely be interested in a small body to match the smaller DA lenses. M-series all over again?
03-11-2009, 05:27 AM   #113
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A more sensible translation... thumbs up!

Sounds like the DA line of lenses might undergo modifications and a redesign to the rear group to project a wider image circle, making them FF ready. Yeah!!! FF is on the horizon! If Pentax can make a M 40mm f/2.8 pancake in the past, I don't see why the DA 40 f/2.8 and other current made for APS-C only lenses can't be redesigned to cover a wider image circle.

03-11-2009, 07:27 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
Very interesting !!

Anybody manage to view the images in there ? Even with Quicktime installed, all I get is blank page after blank page.
I don't if it is a pre-req but try InternTIFF. That's what is used for patent images.

http://www.internetiff.com/docs/try.htm

RuiC
03-11-2009, 08:16 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
quicktimes useless for this purpose.
You need a special TIFF viewer.
Mines this one:
http://www.internetiff.com/
QuoteOriginally posted by RuiC Quote
I don't if it is a pre-req but try InternTIFF. That's what is used for patent images.

http://www.internetiff.com/docs/try.htm

RuiC
Thanks to both of you. Now knowing they were tiff files, I was able to download & view them. Whether they help me understand the patent application more clearly or not is another matter
03-11-2009, 10:11 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Sounds like the DA line of lenses might undergo modifications and a redesign to the rear group to project a wider image circle, making them FF ready. Yeah!!! FF is on the horizon!
$10 says they've finally realised that it doesn't matter whether they're actually going to realise a FF camera or not, they just have to convince the market that they're going to...
03-11-2009, 11:50 AM   #117
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Patent 0080075454 PDF

QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
Thanks to both of you. Now knowing they were tiff files, I was able to download & view them.
Me too.

And because the patent is impossible to read conveniently otherwise, I made a PDF from it for the convenience of my fellow forum friends.

Here we go:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachments/pentax-news-rumors/29998d1236...unt-patent.pdf

Enjoy
03-11-2009, 01:21 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boucicaut Quote
Off topic on the Baltic Sea: I used to work for the Finnish Environment Institute a few years back and got on several sampling trips on their research vessel. I took benthic invertebrate samples form the sea bottom all along the southern coast of Finland and was appalled at the state of the sea. Especially towards the east (St Petersburgh waste water) the sea bottom became completely inoxic with nothing living down there, just black slime that looked like oil and smelled of sulphure (indicating decomposition in inoxic conditions). I have images of the stuff, but they're not with me right now. Same thing even in some parts towards the west, especially near fish farming sites. Was a real eye opener for me and I only buy wild fish nowadays. I don't want to support the fish farming industry anymore.

But it does look nice and photographic on the surface
Thanks for the info, and your thoughts on it. Particularly regarding fish industry farming. Still maybe not all places are as bad. I have heard that they generally pollute quite a lot though


First time I've acknowledged that GPS in camera could actually be very useful.

Last edited by Jonson PL; 03-11-2009 at 01:31 PM.
03-11-2009, 01:52 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
A more sensible translation... thumbs up!

Sounds like the DA line of lenses might undergo modifications and a redesign to the rear group to project a wider image circle, making them FF ready. Yeah!!! FF is on the horizon! If Pentax can make a M 40mm f/2.8 pancake in the past, I don't see why the DA 40 f/2.8 and other current made for APS-C only lenses can't be redesigned to cover a wider image circle.
He said there were going to be no optical changes...??
03-11-2009, 04:03 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by ewalk Quote
He said there were going to be no optical changes...??
If Pentax can revamp the DA 18-55mm kit lens to the DA 18-55mm II, then I remain optimistic that small revisions can be made.
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