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03-10-2009, 07:29 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by losecontrol Quote
I would be more worry about things that means a little bit more.
like, starving kids, end wars, climate-changes...
losecontrol, don't you think that was a bit below the belt? After all this is a forum for photography enthusiasts.

03-10-2009, 08:14 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrApollinax Quote
Not to derail the thread but can someone explain to me why Video capture is such an important feature for a DSLR? I've been trying to wrap my head around it and I still can't figure it out ??? I would much rather have a digital HD Camcorder than use my DSLR as a video camcorder. Am I alone with this sentiment?
No, you are not alone on this.
Live view and video don't belong in a dSLR.

A good high-res. 3" screen for chimping through your images, yes!
A bright and clear viewfinder with the necessary information, yes!
Good dynamic range and low noise at high ISO settings, yes!
And alot more features that benfits the photographer, not the videographer.
03-10-2009, 08:16 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
I had no idea photography attracted so many paranoid, doomsday, grouchy, stick-in-the-ass, argumentative, and closed off people....or maybe it's just the nature of e-forums?

Jason
I think a lot of people are just bored at work.

QuoteOriginally posted by MrApollinax Quote
Not to derail the thread but can someone explain to me why Video capture is such an important feature for a DSLR? I've been trying to wrap my head around it and I still can't figure it out ??? I would much rather have a digital HD Camcorder than use my DSLR as a video camcorder. Am I alone with this sentiment?
It's important now that a manufacturer has put one in and others followed suit (possibly unimportant for us, though some have put it to good use, but important to marketing departments of manufacturers). It would be seen as lagging the competition in one regard for a company to not have it (even if it doesn't add to the photographic process).
03-10-2009, 09:02 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by NorthPentax Quote
Live view and video don't belong in a dSLR.
I still haven't figured out why people don't want live view. I'll gladly take it, as long as I still have an OVF. There are definitely applications where it would be useful (landscape shooting from a low tripod position comes to mind...difficult angle macro shots, especially with my DA 35). I don't need video, but I wouldn't avoid a camera because it has it. Where do "purists" draw the line? Does autofocus belong in a dslr? Shake reduction? Automatic metering? How do people decide which innovations are good and which ones are gimmicks?

Todd

03-10-2009, 09:20 AM   #50
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Live view I can get on board with.. it is the full motion video capture that I don't understand.
03-10-2009, 09:26 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
The DA Star 30 is re-scheduled for the new lens serie.
New lens serie will be APS-C, so not 24x36.
Why a new lens serie? Because it will have new autofocus SDM compatible with contrast detect AF. A new name is needed to avoid confusing with the older AF lenses that is not compatible with contrast detect AF system.

The new bodies will offer contrast detect AF for a fast live view function and video mode with full realtime autofocus.

Note that contrast detect AF only will work with SDM lenses, not screwdriven lenses.
New bodies will of course has support for both the new contrast detect AF and the old phase detection AF to work with old lenses.

But only the new lens lineup can take advantage of the new live AF without back- or front focus problems. Contrast detect AF needs a re-design of the in-lens motors.

I believe the consumer lenses, like the 18-55 II, 50-200 and 55-300 will be the first lenses to come in new versions for the contrast detect AF - with the new lens name. And the 30 as a nice standard lens with f/1.4.

Perhaps the new lens serie will be called DV, where V stands for Video.
I am all for a new SDM concept as I am not particularly impressed by the current one.

I fail to see why contrast AF would need a different AF mechanism in the lens but I am fully ready to take your word for it.

To avoid confusions, the new lenses will of course be able to use conventional phase detect AF also, right?

Also, with all due respect, I have difficulties separating what you KNOW from what you GUESS: could you help me clear that up?
03-10-2009, 09:43 AM   #52
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Careful, they are watching...

QuoteOriginally posted by losecontrol Quote
I have never seen such an energy and time waisted on something that we don't know nor can controll or change.
But then again, maybe we are changing things...

The truth is that we all hope Pentax is secretly monitoring this forum and hanging on our every demand, and you know what, maybe they are. Why else would they seem to be changing directions with every new thread, never coming to a definitive conclusion on anything and second guessing every new release right up to the moment before they scream "PSYCH" and pull it away into vaporware land?

Maybe we should all quit posting our latest Pentax hopes, dreams and demands for a week and see if they actually release something.
03-10-2009, 11:12 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrApollinax Quote
Not to derail the thread but can someone explain to me why Video capture is such an important feature for a DSLR? I've been trying to wrap my head around it and I still can't figure it out ??? I would much rather have a digital HD Camcorder than use my DSLR as a video camcorder. Am I alone with this sentiment?
Because it sells ?

03-10-2009, 12:32 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by NorthPentax Quote
No, you are not alone on this.
Live view and video don't belong in a dSLR.
Well, having found live view incredibly useful in my DSLR experience, I'd have to disagree with you. When you consider the advantage of video in SLRs as well (shallow dof effects that you just can't get with a camcorder, lens flexibility) I can see a lot of reasons to have video in a DSLR. Properly implemented video in a Pentax DSLR would save me buying a Panasonic GH1 in the future (and otherwise, I will).
03-10-2009, 12:33 PM   #55
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Video is pushing in from both sides. From the consumer end, they now expect a "camera" to do video. If a p&s does it, why doesn't my fancy dSLR? You can't convince them that upgrading is upgrading if they are losing features. Then from the high-end/niche you have a mix of people. Some are photographers that also are videographers/cinematographers, others are the reverse. They might have a bunch of high-end glass that they love. The ability to do video with their favorite glass becomes attractive. Consider that to get an HD camcorder with interchangable lenses you're talking a big chunk of money. If one can leverage an existing investment, all the better.

I agree that right now video is a parlor trick, and only useful for people who are experimenting or have a very specific need. But in 5 years it will be the norm. You won't be able to get a camera that doesn't do video. At least that's my prediction.
03-10-2009, 04:23 PM   #56
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Instead of focusing on how "useless" a feature seems, why not focus on its possible applications/uses?

Video is something a LOT of wedding photographers find appealing here. I see teams of wedding photographers with a lot 5D II cameras doing video and photo. Their output is incredible and they love it.

If implemented properly, it would be a great feature and Pentax could gain some serious market share.
03-10-2009, 07:17 PM   #57
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Adapter = MF/FF/APS-C Pentax DSLR?

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I don't understand hints to 35 mm and 645 system...
To put 35 mm to 645D?
What is the 645D to do with K-mount lenses?
But there was old rumor about hybrid mount to fit 645 and K lenses.
Maybe the 645D will allow the use of FA (and DA) lenses through an adapter (a bit like the Nikon FX cameras allow the use of DX lenses).

This way, every Pentaxian could get its FF Pentax DSLR... for roughly US$ 10 000! Not exactly what FF lovers had in mind I guess. lol!

If it's got the 30 Mpix sensor mentioned in the past, a 645D sensor would be about 4800 pixels high x 6400 pixels wide. On a 1:1 ratio sensor (about 60mm x 45mm — but I suspect a 645D would have a 1.3x ratio sensor instead), this would mean about 107 pixels per millimeter.

So used with a lens designed to cover a 24mm x 36mm sensor, this would result in 2560 pixels x 3840 pixels, about 10 Mpix. Or 5 Mpix for an APS-C size sensor.

Well, even with such an adapter, it's not like it's going to be an actual FF DSLR. A medium format digital camera is much less convenient to carry around and really not meant for action, low light or sports photography.
03-10-2009, 09:55 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
I fail to see why contrast AF would need a different AF mechanism in the lens
w/ the phase detection the AF system can actually instantly predict where to move the "focus group" of lens elements (means it can detect that we are in a BF or FF situation in the current position of the said "focus group") and even how much the "focus group" should be moved in that direction (not exactly, but in most cases the estimate is good enough... of course in a dim light, difficult target, etc it can make an error, phase detection still needs some contrast to work with)

w/ contrast detection which is using the same sensor that is taking a picture it is not so - you need actually to move the "focus group" of lens elements and sample, move and sample, and so on - so while CDAF is possible w/ any AF lens it is usable only if "focus group" of lens elements can be moved fast, that means (1) true ring type USM (not micromotors that Pentax sells you now) and (2) properly constructed "focus group" that will be moved by that motor (means the design of that "focus group", how it moves, what it the size and weight of it, etc, etc will be optimized for such operation of CDAF)
03-10-2009, 10:13 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrApollinax Quote
Live view I can get on board with.. it is the full motion video capture that I don't understand.
Try getting such an amazing selection of lenses for a similarly priced digital camcorder... As much as video isn't a priority for me, I don't think a camera that can do video would be worse in any real way than one that didn't do video, so might as well throw it in...
03-11-2009, 04:00 AM   #60
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I tried translation

DC Watch, IMPRESS

Title:PENTAX will introduce a new DSLR in the summer 2009, the concept changes from K20D. PENTAX has no relation to Samsung mirror-less camera.

In Photokina, PENTAX insisted in introducing successors of K20D and K200D by the summer. What has been developed by PENTAX?
Many PENTAX freaks anticipated no DSLR introduction in PMA 2009 but they want to know the move of PENTAX.

DC Watch interviewed Mr. Taku Kawauchi, a planning group manager, PENTAX imaging system company, HOYA. He got the manager post in March 2009.

-----K20D class model will not be a direct successor of K20D?

Mr. Kawauchi had been publicity management before PMA, so he knew very well the past published information by PENTAX. Before DC Watch asked questions, he mentioned 2 models of DSLR.

PENTAX developed 2 DSLR models in September 2008, Photokina season, but PENTAX revised development roadmap after Photokina; K20D class model will hit the market by the summer 2009, K200D class model will hit the market in the New Year season 2010.

"This in not because the world-wide recession. PENTAX revised the plan to introduce K20D class DSLR after the hard discussion. Although now PENTAX cut some lenses and T/C on the lens- developing roadmap, PENTAX plans to reintroduce the lenses afterward." Mr. Kawauchi said.

PENTAX plans to revise standard DA lenses that will to be fit to new K20D class model (this is not a direct successor of K20D).
Mr. Kawauchi said "When new camera will appear, you must know the whole thing about the reason of revising. Enjoy waiting."
"The lenses revising include no optical layout change, but refinement to fit to the new body."
What functions will new body have?
He did not mention specific things about it. "New body should have full functions in trend of DSLR world. If the functions are not enough, PENTAX users will get disappointed apparently."

PENTAX does not only seem to develop the new body with full latest function, but also the attitude of the K20D class model will be a competing thing.
'K20D class' means the model is not a direct successor of K20D.
Although many users like K20D body, Mr. Kawauchi think "K20D body maybe lack a certain attitude that PENTAX had for a long time."

" For instance, Limited lenses have many attractive features: precise design, easy to use and high performance. We can't evaluate the body that can not compete with rivals a few months after the release. What is the competence of PENTAX? This is the question for you."

Mr. Kawauchi hinted some things.
For instance, DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited has the following features; a built-in hood is capable for handling and the design of the gauge area is very precise.
It seems to be a precision product. The lenses cap with embossed PENTAX logotype is well made because the logotypes correctly horizontal at the secure position.

These features are not high technology things, but from the PENTAX attitude that makes good things. The new camera should have such an attitude and the users will always love it "even in the bed."

Mr. Kawauchi said PENTAX evaluates size-factor because K20D is big to handle and PENTAX users want to have smaller bodies.
He said new DSLR will be so smaller than K20D that it should be match to DA Limited lenses.

He said K20D and K200D have a similar design scheme, but new K20D class DSLR will have a different design taste to 2010 new year season camera(K200D class DSLR).
He said "development staffs are very pleased to join the new DSLR projects. They think they could show the ability as PENTAX. The new model might be suitable for PENTAX users' expectation.
In addition, PENTAX mentioned the priority of 645D was higher than FF DSLR and the development of 645D resumed. In this interview, Mr. Kawauchi said the development of 645D is going on. DC Watch thinks PENTAX might make a presentation about 645D as a real product in PIE 2009 or later.

-----PENTAX has no relation to NX system

Mr. Kawauchi said they have completely no relation to NX system of Samsung.
But in other category, PENTAX have a partnership still with Samsung.

Mr. Kawauchi said "We did not know more than the information about mirror-less camera of Samsung from international news media after Photokina. In fact, there is no joint venture about NX system. Right now, we have no conversation about NX system and Lenses for NX."
The rumor that PENTAX and Samsung have a partnership about NX system is not correct according to Mr. Kawauchi.
Actually the partnership of PENTAX and Samsung deals the development of camera bodies, not lenses. (Samsung DSLR lenses are OEM of PENTAX.)
Also the rumor that Sigma and Samsung has a partnership about NX lenses was denied by Kazuto Yamamoto, Sigma president. ”Many people ask me about joint venture to Samsung, in fact Sigma has no business in the NX.”
DC Watch has no information about NX lenses manufacturer.

----PENTAX gives priority to K mount system more than a mirror-less system
"We want to make the product with the proud of a manufacture company."(Mr. Kawauchi)

Mr. Kawauchi said "We are interesting in the system change by the mirror-less method, however our priority is to complete our lens-system. Mirror-less system is worth to think about, but we have no plan right now." He mentioned that the focal point of PENTAX will be to develop DSLR as an optical maker, not mirror-less.

“We also have to develop 645D system. It needs power. Creating new lenses mount like NX system needs as huge power as a Full-frame DSLR system. If we can not comprehend that the new system is superior to K mount system in all aspects, we never enter the mirror-less category.”

At the end of the interview, Mr. Kawauchi said to PENTAX fans.
"Obviously there is world wide recession. We think recession mainly affects entry-level DSLRs. In high-amateur level category, customers will pay to the products that they love and want seriously".

"We, PENTAX want to make the product with the proud of a manufacture company. We will make severe cost-management, but pour money to the necessary parts and functions. We do not only want get the share of products. We want the users to buy PENTAX unique goods with their pleasure".

"In 2009, PENTAX will offer the cameras (compacts and DSLRs) that are not only good products, but also bring pleasure to users' hearts."
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