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03-11-2009, 03:11 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Yes but it is still supposed to be a standard (OK, unofficially).
Wow, you have a lot of faith in standards.

This standard only governs how the tags will be organised and specified, not which possible tags might be created. So when different apps create different tags they create incompatibilities. IIRC an unknown tag should at least be parsed silently, but some apps might fail that and report an error.

03-11-2009, 04:03 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Wow, you have a lot of faith in standards.

This standard only governs how the tags will be organised and specified, not which possible tags might be created. So when different apps create different tags they create incompatibilities. IIRC an unknown tag should at least be parsed silently, but some apps might fail that and report an error.
I take it you never ran into problems w/ the TWAIN standard either... I love standards... when there actually standardized without holes (the size of MAC trucks) that programmers/companies utilize..... Or when programmers don't take shortcuts... One of the biggest problems w/ "Windows" was not the GUI itself but programmers taking shortcuts (or not fully understanding) the program "standards".

In my mind there are few "true standards" in the computer industry. Of the few most get obsoleted before there even agreed upon. Cynical yes.. realistic.... maybe...
Getting off topic a bit here and yes the "nature of the beast" usually means standards need to be flexible... One of the knocks (at least mine) of DNG is it still allows companies to "hide" things in it in the meta tags... the standard is to add an "unstandard" area.... does that really make sense in a standard way???
03-11-2009, 04:54 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by kimpira Quote
Hi, blende8,

I don't know all current lenses will be revised and compatibility.

Mr. Kawauchi said "The lenses revising include no optical layout change, but refinement to fit to the new body" in the interview.

*IMO, it might be a cosmetic change for high quality appearance.
No optical layout change?

Does this imply they are not taking the opportunity to upgrade lenses to fullframe versions ?

Hmmmmmmm................

bazz.
03-11-2009, 05:33 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Torphoto Quote
Ok, I understand what Pentax is saying here, now for the wish list, MZ-S style body!!!!!

ok so I will now start saving my pennies again and hope that this "new" concept is both worth while and will truely seperate Pentax from the rest, and at least compete with the 5dMKII is hi iso, resolution and IQ.
I'd love a MZ-S style body!

To compete with a 5D MkII on noise would require increasing the photosites' surface area from 40% to about 60% of the available surface area (and a better sensor design it is Samsung's first CMOS chip after all).

A tough challenge, IMO: an APS-C sensor can't compete against a FF on noise. But for the IQ and resolution, it's possible to get close enough?

As far as I'm concerned, I just hope Pentax will go from a 12-bit analog/digital converter to a 14/16-bit ADC for better dynamic range and improved RAW headroom for highlights.

03-11-2009, 05:41 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutedphotos Quote
To those of you studying the patent application, as a long time follower of Apple rumors I'd advise you to read it with a rather large chunk of salt. Of course, maybe Apple is different than Pentax in their patent philosophy, but I've seen dozens of Apple patents show up all over the mac rumor sites over the last 5-6 years without ever seeing a product arise from them. Patent aps rarely ever amount to much, it seems.
With Pentax sometimes it is true. Sooner or later they are visible. The US Pat. appears later. Maybe the Japan Pat. comes sooner:

K10D:

United States Patent Application: 0070172226

United States Patent Application: 0080278594

K20D:

United States Patent Application: 0090040347

Anti Shake:

United States Patent Application: 0070269195


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03-11-2009, 06:51 PM   #111
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Whens the last time they applied for a patent for a mount? Kaf2? I would hope they wouldnt make a lens mount imcompatible with kmount... i just finished my limited set..
03-11-2009, 11:34 PM   #112
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QuoteQuote:
PENTAX developed 2 DSLR models in September 2008, Photokina season, but PENTAX revised development roadmap after Photokina; K20D class model will hit the market by the summer 2009, K200D class model will hit the market in the New Year season 2010.
Does that mean that the new concept was developed in less than 6 months? That's awfully short for anything else than a cosmetic change!

Surely this can't be right, you just can't change a complete production line in that time frame...


QuoteQuote:
Mr. Kawauchi said PENTAX evaluates size-factor because K20D is big to handle and PENTAX users want to have smaller bodies.
He said new DSLR will be so smaller than K20D that it should be match to DA Limited lenses.

Damn! Not ALL Pentax users are comfortable with small bodies... but then again, it could be an acceptable trade-off for an eminently portable camera... wait and see.
03-12-2009, 03:02 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by losecontrol
I would be more worry about things that means a little bit more.
like, starving kids, end wars, climate-changes...


QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
losecontrol, don't you think that was a bit below the belt? After all this is a forum for photography enthusiasts.
okey, maybe.

But that is just my point.
We are photography enthusiasts.....not electronic-gear fanatics.

Saying starving kids, end wars, climate-changes ect ect...was a kind of a joke but a touch of seriosity. We mind just too much in the small things..

Everybody here is even happy to be able to afford a Camera??

There are a lots of people out there that Don't!


Take it with a spoon of salt if you want, but try to see my point.

I love taking pictures and
Photography is simple. Capture a moment, that's it! Nothing more

03-12-2009, 04:20 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
This whole post is just wild speculation, with nothing to support it in the public announcements.
Not true.

QuoteQuote:
Besides, it is not necessarily true that new lenses would be required to support a new AF system. Unless you have a source?
The official information is that the live function in the new body is greatly enhanced compared to K20D. Now, what improvements could be made to K20D live view? Autofocus! Yes, the live view in the K20D does not have proper autofocus. It flips down the mirror and uses phase detection AF, so it is not live view AF. No autofocus with live view.

So, the new body will have live view AF.
This means contrast detect AF = the sensor does the autofocusing. This is contrast detect AF. Same as in compact digicams.

Now, fact is that Pentax is releasing a new lens serie to fit the new body.
Why would they do this if the new body doesn't offer new functionality that requires new lenses?

Why would fast contrast AF requires new lenses? Because standard AF lenses will be slow with contrast detect. They already are on Nikon and Canon's DSLR with contrast detect AF. Their existing AF lenses are painfully slow with contrast detect AF.

As has been explained earlier in this thread in a technical post not written by me, fast contrast detect AF requires more of the lenses. Older Olympus lenses for 4/3-system won't autofocus on the Panasonic G1. New lenses can be updated by Olympus to work with autofocus on the Panasonic G1. Panasonics Leica-lenses for the 4/3 system works with autofocus on the G1, because they were made for the contrast detect AF in the Panasonic L10, so they were already prepared for the contrast detect AF in the G1.
This is evidence that contrast detect AF requires more from lenses than phase detection AF needs.

To stay competetive, Pentax just can't offer a slow contrast detect AF system as Canon and Nikon. For a fast system, improvements to the lenses needs to be done.
And it is official from Pentax that they will release a new lens serie that will fit the requirements of the new body.

If you wish to believe that this is only about external design changes, then do believe that. But a change of colour does not require a new lens serie. The white DA L lenses are still DA L lenses - cosmetic change but still the same serie.

So introducing a new lens serie that is all about cosmetics, is silly.
The new contrast detection AF system for live view, requires AF improvements in the AF lenses. It does for the other makers, I don't think Pentax is any different - especially not since their AF system is much older and more primitive, in a sense, than Olympus etc...


As you can see, this is not wild speculations at all!
03-12-2009, 04:23 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
But the new camera will not have video, I wager.
Why? Pentax has officially said, last year, that they were considering it, that they were looking into it. They did not promised it, but they were considering it.
This is the closest thing to a "yes it will have video" they can say.
Typical Pentax.
03-12-2009, 04:48 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Why? Pentax has officially said, last year, that they were considering it, that they were looking into it. They did not promised it, but they were considering it.
This is the closest thing to a "yes it will have video" they can say.
Typical Pentax.
But pentax is a brand in the entusiasm way like leica, hasselblad ect ect.
Why would a photo-entusiast would like to have video?!?!

We are photographers...not a film team.

Video would ruin the whole pentax filosofy...

I really hope that...please pentax. No!
03-12-2009, 04:57 AM   #117
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Pentax is a progressive company, famous for breaking new grounds and go where no man - or woman - has gone before. This is their heritage. They have intreoduced many of industry's first, and lots of their patents and technologies are used by other companies. Pentax released the first AF SLR in the world, they invented the hybrid aspherical lens system, they sold their optical IS system to Canon and Nikon (they did not use it themselves, strangely enough), they invented the HyperProgram modes and MTF exposure function, they were among the firstt to introduce power zoom on SLR's, a function otherwise associated with zoomcompacts, they moved the hotshoe on the Z-serie to the side to avoid red-eyes, and so on and so on.

So Pentax is not a traditionalist company, they are progressive and likes to break new ground. Leica, Contax etc - all very traditional and un-Pentax like in this sense.

Pentax has already mixed video and still images, with the Optio MX that were styled like a Super 8 camcorder. Now, this one flopped... but it was an interresting concept of combining video and still images. So this is not new to Pentax, they have already been there.
03-12-2009, 05:23 AM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
As you can see, this is not wild speculations at all!
Not to nit-pick but unless you are privy to insider information and are breaking your NDA to provide this information then all of this except for the direct quotes from Pentax/Hoya is conjecture and speculation. Just sayin is all
03-12-2009, 05:33 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by losecontrol Quote
But pentax is a brand in the entusiasm way like leica, hasselblad ect ect.
Why would a photo-entusiast would like to have video?!?!
Many of us are enthusiast amateurs who also take family snapshots. And I try to shoot some family videos as well, as memories of times long gone film/video is even more valuable than photos.

Now, when I go on holiday with my family I usually bring my DV video camera in addition to my K10D (I also bring my W10, but that fits inside one of the small pouches of my camera bag, and doesn't add bulk at all ), and bringing an additional camera bag just for some occasional home video sequences is not really much fun, but I don't want to be without those videos either.

A good video mode in my DSLR would bring me the following:

- Less bulk, less chargers, less items to lose...
- Both more videos and more photos, since switching between the two will be a piece of cake
- Better video quality and maybe more fun making when making videos.
03-12-2009, 06:27 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Not true.


As you can see, this is not wild speculations at all!
Maybe not wild ... but still 100% speculations!

I have some difficulties believing that Pentax designed a whole new system (new body + lenses mechanisms) with superior AF technology than C&N in 6 months... and that they have already made the necessary changes to their production lines to be able to roll prototypes in a few weeks...

Could it be that the translation stating that this move was decided AFTER Photokina 2008 is not accurate and that Pentax had been planning this for a few years...?


If not, my bet is on a new body style + re-styled lenses to go with it but nothing much in the hardware department.
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