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03-12-2009, 04:48 AM   #46
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I was leafing through a British photo magazine today, and they had a review of the K-m in there.

They rated the camera highly, about 85%, but they said that Pentax really needs more cameras, as there's not many more options out there for those who've bought into the Pentax.

I'm hoping Pentax does give us more options - not necessarily FF right now, but faster AF, and higher FPS. Hell, use the K20D's sensor.

Pentax expects to expand its market share...but how? Most people who've bought Brand X will stay with Brand X - whether they're buying a new camera of a similar level or whether they're upgrading to a camera with better features. I guarantee you, even consumer-level users thing about doing the latter, even if they never actually do it.

It'd be nice if I could say I'm sticking with Pentax come hell or high water. The truth is I shoot Pentax because it suits my purposes; I don't want to have to change my purposes just to keep shooting Pentax.

03-12-2009, 07:04 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by asdf Quote
It seems few pay attention to the prices of similar (in application) Canikon lenses
To be fair, you can find a lot more Canikon lenses on the used market. I'm amazed at how many a D80 friend has been able to find...Kirons, Tokinas, 80-200/2.8's, etc. for cheaper than I've been able to locate Pentax equivalents...

For brand new lenses, I very much agree though...
03-12-2009, 07:49 AM   #48
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I'm guessing if the friend's finding Kirons, then they're not EF lenses; they're FD lenses, which are next to useless on anything but an Canon FD mount camera.
03-12-2009, 08:42 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by asdf Quote
Looking at your sig, a meaningful upgrade for you would be a better set of lenses.

Two variable aperture zooms?...one of them a super zoom? Sheesh.

EDIT: Oh yeah, btw, that thing in your sig isn't HSM, despite your claim to the contrary.
Well, you're not being particularly constructive. Upgrading his lenses (which may well be suited for what he does with his Pentax gear) isn't going to magically make Pentax T/S lenses that match the new Canon offerings appear...

03-12-2009, 09:56 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Well, you're not being particularly constructive. Upgrading his lenses (which may well be suited for what he does with his Pentax gear) isn't going to magically make Pentax T/S lenses that match the new Canon offerings appear...
I should have been more explicit:

YouTube - "All the Gear: No Idea!" (2005) Guy Blews ... Host
03-12-2009, 10:41 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
The fact that there still remains a hesitancy for many to upgrade to the excellent K20D at current prices is indicative of the lack of propensity to spend on Pentax as a system.
This is a pretty big assumption, and seems to be subjective in that you believe people should upgrade to every new model that appears on the market. I'm not sure there's any way to support this claim, or even a place to find objective evidence that would support this claim.

I bought a K10D a year and a half ago and I'm quite happy with it. I know the camera inside and out, and the image quality I get from it still matches what I could get from a K20D or D300 or 50D. Why would I upgrade? On the other hand, I'm spending handily in Pentax glass. In no way am I saying I'm indicative of a "typical" Pentax user (if there is such a thing), only that it's impossible to see your statement above as anything but bogus because you can't support it.

Todd
03-12-2009, 11:07 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by gnaztee Quote
This is a pretty big assumption, and seems to be subjective in that you believe people should upgrade to every new model that appears on the market. I'm not sure there's any way to support this claim, or even a place to find objective evidence that would support this claim.

on the contrary, probably the best place to test that statement is right here on this forum.

simply start a poll asking those who have not "upgraded" to the K20d - why they have not.

the poll can have the choise of answers to cover the statement.

1 - happy with what i have
2 - not that large an improvement over k10 to justify
3 - not prepared to spend anymore money on pentax until i know where they going
4 - spent all my money on lenses
5 - spent all my money on my drinking problem
6 - got no money

etc etc

so its actually very easy to test the statement.. if i knew how to start a poll thread i would do it.
03-12-2009, 02:34 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
on the contrary, probably the best place to test that statement is right here on this forum.

simply start a poll asking those who have not "upgraded" to the K20d - why they have not.

the poll can have the choise of answers to cover the statement.

1 - happy with what i have
2 - not that large an improvement over k10 to justify
3 - not prepared to spend anymore money on pentax until i know where they going
4 - spent all my money on lenses
5 - spent all my money on my drinking problem
6 - got no money

etc etc

so its actually very easy to test the statement.. if i knew how to start a poll thread i would do it.
With me so far. I'm kind of waiting to see what the next generation will be so that I can decide if I want to skip over the K20D altogether and pick up the new model (once it drops in price a little probably) or pick a K20D up cheap after the new model comes out, and then start saving for either that one after it drops in price quite a bit or for the second generation after the K20D. If it seems like Pentax isn't going anywhere that I want after the K20D, then I'll definitely pick up a K20D because I'm confident that I would like the camera and I could use it with all the lenses I have (other than the two Canon lenses I still have) or plan to buy.

So, actually, my holding off on the K20D so far is indicative that I do intend to invest more money in Pentax as a system, just not necessarily in that generation.

If Pentax seems to go in a direction that I don't intend to follow, then I'm not sure what I'll do.

Canon: I'm not crazy about the ergonomics on Canon cameras compared to Pentax (although my XT (350D) certainly doesn't seem like a rip off or anything).

Nikon: They might be possible with their electronic shutters and nice flashes, but their lenses seem quite expensive, especially if you want shake reduction.

Sony: Last I checked, their lenses were out of this world expensive for anything fast at all, and I don't tend to think so much of Sony quality in general over the last 15 years or so (it used to be better). Also, Sony is really annoying as a company in general in always trying to lock you in to their stuff. Sometimes I think they're worse about this than Microsoft, which is pretty bad.

Olympus: I think four thirds, though interesting in principle, might be going a bit far when it comes to reduction of sensor size. However, the compact size possible for micro four thirds cameras, along with the wide variety of mount adapters, makes it a possibility, perhaps even as a second system. The price of fast lenses might be an obstacle here as well, though.

Sigma: The Foveon sensor is very interesting in principle, and I would love to see further development of the technology. It makes me tempted to get a Sigma as a second system (I would definitely have to get rid of what little Canon gear I have), but the limitations in high ISO performance and a few other quirks, along with Sigma being the only source for any lenses would sort of rule it out as my primary system for now.

Samsung NX: It's too early to say, but this might be interesting if I couldn't continue with Pentax, or perhaps as a second system.

In short, I really hope that Pentax keeps coming out with stuff that appeals to me because I've already done the research once, and Pentax is what I came up with. I really don't want to start at square one again, and I believe I would keep the Pentax gear I do have for quite some time at any rate.

03-12-2009, 11:29 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
on the contrary, probably the best place to test that statement is right here on this forum.

simply start a poll asking those who have not "upgraded" to the K20d - why they have not.

the poll can have the choise of answers to cover the statement.

1 - happy with what i have
2 - not that large an improvement over k10 to justify
3 - not prepared to spend anymore money on pentax until i know where they going
4 - spent all my money on lenses
5 - spent all my money on my drinking problem
6 - got no money

etc etc

so its actually very easy to test the statement.. if i knew how to start a poll thread i would do it.

No, that still wouldn't show objective information. The only way for that to be relevant is to assume that the vast majority of Pentax users frequent this forum...and if they do that they frequent the "Rumors" section...and if they do that they care to respond to the poll. You can ask all the poll questions you want on Pentax Forums, but that will in no way "test the statement." In fact, that will be only slightly more reliable than someone simply saying it.
03-13-2009, 12:31 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by gnaztee Quote
No, that still wouldn't show objective information. The only way for that to be relevant is to assume that the vast majority of Pentax users frequent this forum...and if they do that they frequent the "Rumors" section...and if they do that they care to respond to the poll. You can ask all the poll questions you want on Pentax Forums, but that will in no way "test the statement." In fact, that will be only slightly more reliable than someone simply saying it.
its a snap poll, not a referendum.
and aren't snap rolls, by their very definition, just a sampling of opinions and not meant to be an all encompassing indicator of everyones opinions everywhere.

and then if you take into account that the original statement made by creampuff is most likely formulated and based upon his perceptions gained from this very forum, and not from knowing every pentax owner everywhere, then a snap poll sampling of opinions from the very demographic from where creampuff drew his opinion, would make the results very relative,objective and a test of his statement.
03-13-2009, 08:53 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
its a snap poll, not a referendum.
and aren't snap rolls, by their very definition, just a sampling of opinions and not meant to be an all encompassing indicator of everyones opinions everywhere.

and then if you take into account that the original statement made by creampuff is most likely formulated and based upon his perceptions gained from this very forum, and not from knowing every pentax owner everywhere, then a snap poll sampling of opinions from the very demographic from where creampuff drew his opinion, would make the results very relative,objective and a test of his statement.
I agree with your definition of polls, but not to the extent that they give any useful information. There's a jump being made that's not supported. The problem, for me, is that you can't take anectdotal evidence (stories from a handful of users on photography forums) that people are hesitant to spend on one item in the Pentax lineup (K20D) and then conclude that it is an indicator that people don't want to spend on Pentax as a system. For one thing, these people may be spending much more money on lenses than the K20D costs (plenty of anecdotal evidence showing this as well). As another example, what about Canon users who still rely on their 20D? Or their 5D? Can we assume that they are hesitant about spending on Canon as a system? Only if we assume that people must buy the latest model to show they're "invested" in a system, which is bogus.

So, I would agree with Creampuff that there is anecdotal evidence that people don't want to spend money on the K20D. I would not agree that we can point to this and say with any reliability that it indicates anything.

I'm not trying to get wrapped up in semantics, I just think we make a lot of assumptions on these forums about what a "typical" Pentax user is, and what they want/think, when people are too different to want the same things for the same reasons (see almost every "Full Frame" thread).
03-13-2009, 12:49 PM   #57
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Oh, heck, Stephen. I can step up without a poll:

I have a K10D, still learning it, and would rather spend money on glass than on the incremental advantage of the K20. Another new body may change my mind.

In the interim: I got a good deal on the K2000 and plan to use it primarily indoors for better AF and better (than K10) noise handling. I think. After that, I have no money.

However ... my local closed (neighborhood brewpub) and I may save enough from the involuntary control of my drinking problem that I can afford another body or a * lens for outdoors. I'd rather buy photo gear than drink Miller Lite. (With apologies to those who prefer Miller Lite. To them I say, "It's OK. Not everyone can like beer.")

Well, that hits them all, Stephen, except faith in the direction of Pentax. I am keeping the faith. And my lenses. And my engraved pint glass in case the local re-opens.

At that point, I will certainly have no money and all the above becomes moot.
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