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03-09-2009, 05:55 PM   #1
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Some thoughts...a reaction.

I've been reading and anticipating something new from Pentax for a long time now, just like the rest of you. Every new rumor or cryptic announcement, every poorly translated interview: they have all made me feel and think many different things. Sometimes excitement, other times disappointment. I'm in the camp of hoping that Pentax does make a full frame camera because I am a huge fan of the lenses. After thinking a bit about this and considering I use mainly the M-42 screw mount lenses, the old Canon 5D has been looking more and more like a viable option for me. I'm not about to sell off all of my Pentax gear and switch systems, My Pentax gear does what I need it to do, and it does it particularly well.

My concern is something more related to exploration. I'm all about adventures and variety. I can see myself purchasing a Nikon or a Canon. Heck, I've been impressed by some other brands as well, but those purchases would lead me to different types of photography. What I do with my Pentax gear is what I am comfortable with now, but buying into another system and trying out what that system can do better at may be uncomfortable.

In general I'm happy with pentax and what they currently offer. I honestly doubt many of us really HONESTLY need a camera more advanced than the K20D. Sure, we all want the best, and using Pentax has made that very easy for us and affordable as well, but that is only if we ignore that other brands offer a more comprehensible line up in the "professional" department. On the same note as that our top gear is often compared to the competitions top gear which is not what our top gear is necessarily competing with. This just fuels more issues and perpetuates our expectations for something of a higher level.

Now with the 645D coming...maybe. We won't have the luxury of owning that top model, but some will no doubt try to compare it to the top models of other brands and do the same that has been done to the Pentax brand. We need to keep in mind what models can realistically compete with others, no.....really we need to get out and take photos with the equipment we can reasonably afford and use to its fullest extent.

I'm not going to ramble any further, so much of this has been gone over in the past and will no doubt be brought up in the future.

Seriously, lets just use the tools we have to capture the moments we have. If we spend too much time debating and speculating...well that's just more moments we won't have to capture in our lives.

Keep the rumors coming and speculate here and there, but let's try not to obsess. I have been reading toooo many rumors and seeing too much bickering lately and a torrent of sarcasm on top of it.

03-09-2009, 08:21 PM   #2
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I kinda felt like you last year

Last year this board was crowded with full frame rumors that seemed real due to quantity or credible due to source.

I got fed up with waiting for Pentax to provide full frame and added 5D last summer, then added another, then this year added a D700, Then the full frame camera Pentax launched was K-m instead. I was pretty unhappy but alot of people here seems overjoyed with it. To me K-m was supposed to be last years full frame K mount, so for me it is a major let down.

You've got a K10D and K20D why just enjoy your old glass and wait for pentax to figure it out. You know like release translations from japanese into english instead of letting google translator talk for them. Hoya has really screwed up Pentax camera division. I will never buy any Hoya logo'd product ever again.


I've got a K20D and I haven't bought a lens new from pentax in 6 years. They sell people on the concept of using old glass. I'm sold K20D does a great job with old glass, the good old made in Japan stuff.

Igrnore the forums, shoot some pix. All will be clearer by 2010.

QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Awesome Quote
I've been reading and anticipating something new from Pentax for a long time now, just like the rest of you. Every new rumor or cryptic announcement, every poorly translated interview: they have all made me feel and think many different things. Sometimes excitement, other times disappointment. I'm in the camp of hoping that Pentax does make a full frame camera because I am a huge fan of the lenses. After thinking a bit about this and considering I use mainly the M-42 screw mount lenses, the old Canon 5D has been looking more and more like a viable option for me. I'm not about to sell off all of my Pentax gear and switch systems, My Pentax gear does what I need it to do, and it does it particularly well.

My concern is something more related to exploration. I'm all about adventures and variety. I can see myself purchasing a Nikon or a Canon. Heck, I've been impressed by some other brands as well, but those purchases would lead me to different types of photography. What I do with my Pentax gear is what I am comfortable with now, but buying into another system and trying out what that system can do better at may be uncomfortable.

In general I'm happy with pentax and what they currently offer. I honestly doubt many of us really HONESTLY need a camera more advanced than the K20D. Sure, we all want the best, and using Pentax has made that very easy for us and affordable as well, but that is only if we ignore that other brands offer a more comprehensible line up in the "professional" department. On the same note as that our top gear is often compared to the competitions top gear which is not what our top gear is necessarily competing with. This just fuels more issues and perpetuates our expectations for something of a higher level.

Now with the 645D coming...maybe. We won't have the luxury of owning that top model, but some will no doubt try to compare it to the top models of other brands and do the same that has been done to the Pentax brand. We need to keep in mind what models can realistically compete with others, no.....really we need to get out and take photos with the equipment we can reasonably afford and use to its fullest extent.

I'm not going to ramble any further, so much of this has been gone over in the past and will no doubt be brought up in the future.

Seriously, lets just use the tools we have to capture the moments we have. If we spend too much time debating and speculating...well that's just more moments we won't have to capture in our lives.

Keep the rumors coming and speculate here and there, but let's try not to obsess. I have been reading toooo many rumors and seeing too much bickering lately and a torrent of sarcasm on top of it.
03-09-2009, 09:42 PM   #3
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Whither Subaru?

QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Awesome Quote

My Pentax gear does what I need it to do, and it does it particularly well.

On the same note as that our top gear is often compared to the competitions top gear which is not what our top gear is necessarily competing with.
My Subaru is an interesting car. Durable, lasts forever, goes places outdoors no other car can go, and you can attach any Thule rack ever made to it without buying new mounting brackets - very thoughtful of them to maintain Legacy roof-rack backward compatibility for all their outdoors enthusiasts.

The Forester was SUV of the year last year, but that was last year - they didn't introduce anything new at Detroit!! Its too small for my body anyway, but cutting-edge engineering and strangely appealing, weird styling - especially in white.

The Impreza STi is a ticket magnet, but not styled for a 53 year old. Too buzzy and cheap, entry-level ergonomics. Way too light to toss around a road course, and you have to depend on your gear to make money at it. Besides, it used to take a 6-Volt battery, available at any motorcycle shop or Walmart; now it takes a vertical 12-Volt, mounted in the trunk! what a PITA

The Spec.B was the best sport-sedan they ever made - but they never developed the concept. While the competition invested money in styling, suspension, exhaust manifold turbo boost, mechanical intercooling and high-energy fog lights, Subaru wandered around, dropped manual transmission and eventually dropped the car altogether.

Try going into an Auto-Nation and asking for an Outback!! Noooooo - you want a Beemercedes, not a little Subaru - no dealers, no parts - they're going out of business - no market share!!!

Of course, if I wanted to spend $60,000 to get around town in style I'd get an M5.



(FWIW, Subaru is the only automaker that made a profit last year )
03-09-2009, 10:00 PM   #4
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I donít see FF from Pentax in the near future. Big expensive top-line models are not the state of things at the moment.

It has always been a waiting game with Pentax, and hard to know what to expect. But great pictures can be made, with the equipment at hand.
With Hoya at the rudder, the usual Pentax steering is more difficult, since users want reassurance and the creative stamina, which used to govern. It may still be there, but we need more concrete proof. Hence why people would like a high end offering.

The K-m was a fine move, but they need to feed top-end too. The K20 would still be more than capable for my needs, but I do understand those that dream for more.

03-09-2009, 10:19 PM   #5
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Since Pentax just semi-announced the 645D, the chance of us seeing a FF body in the next two years is next to zero.

In 4 years...we probably will still see it. But four year is a long time. 4 years ago Kodak was making FF DSLR for Nikon and Canon mounts.

It just helps me make up my mind to go back to film for a while. I like the idea of paying full attention to every shot becuase every click cost you a few dimes.
03-10-2009, 02:08 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by whatever7 Quote
Since Pentax just semi-announced the 645D, the chance of us seeing a FF body in the next two years is next to zero.

In 4 years...we probably will still see it. But four year is a long time. 4 years ago Kodak was making FF DSLR for Nikon and Canon mounts.

It just helps me make up my mind to go back to film for a while. I like the idea of paying full attention to every shot becuase every click cost you a few dimes.
,

if they have resourses to lanch the 645, they will have it to lanch a FF...

I hope to see a FF too....and well, we have to wait and see that's it!
03-10-2009, 03:23 AM   #7
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My 2 pence

Well we would all like a FF SLR from Pentax, but would we actually buy it?

Looking at the offerings from Canikon and Sony, the price will likely be some £1700 - £2000 just for the body, 2 - 2.5 times the price of the K20D when it was launched, which is WAY out of my price range; as was the £800 for the K20D on its launch. I waited until this last £100 cash back offer to jump.

Pentax will know this buying pattern and will delay any FF until the economic situation has at least stabilised as a lot of previous 'early adopters' will wait until the prices drop, as they inevitably will.

This loss of the initial premium price selling would mean that Pentax would have to sell more many units to recoup the development costs and get into profitability.

Also bear in mind that K20D sales will drop off as soon as a new replacement or FF model is anounced as people will try to pick up heavily discounted K20Ds after the new model is released, as I did with my K10D.

With all the above, the yearly cycle of replacements will be draining the coffers at Pentax and I would be supprised if the K10D for example made them a lot of cash although if the K10 / K20 cameras were amortised as one unit, same body after all, and the K20 is not replaced and sells well for another year-ish they should be in profit.

So in conclusion, a new body available in 2010 does seem unreasonable, indeed very likely.

Bill - my 2p
03-10-2009, 03:39 AM   #8
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Bill - your post kind of contradicts itself.

you start by saying that any pentax FF will be too expensive for peope to buy...

then you say the sales of K20d will drop off as people will be buying the FF...

I would imagine, in my opinion, that a fair number of people bought the K20d, not because it was cheap, but because it was the best pentax has to offer..
if they offered a FF even at $1,700 - $2,000 I would buy it on pre-order.. and not "just because its FF".. but because I need the advantages a FF has to offer, and I would have no doubts a Pentax FF would be better that the other manufacturers in the same class..

even in todays economic climate, there are still people with money to spend.

canon's 5dMII, selling here for $3,500 sells out as quick as they come in... its almost impossible to walk into any camera shop and buy one without having pre-ordered.. the entire countries first 2 shipments of M II's were totally sold out on pre-order...

so if you looked at that buying pattern - then take pentaxes awesome reputation in mind for deliverying a great product, I'd like to imagine there'd be a line down the road of people waiting to pre-order (well, ok almost a line..!) people will find the money some how to get one!

03-10-2009, 04:00 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by whatever7 Quote
Since Pentax just semi-announced the 645D, the chance of us seeing a FF body in the next two years is next to zero.

In 4 years...we probably will still see it. But four year is a long time. 4 years ago Kodak was making FF DSLR for Nikon and Canon mounts.

It just helps me make up my mind to go back to film for a while. I like the idea of paying full attention to every shot becuase every click cost you a few dimes.

Funny, I have just done the same and have been using my trusty Z1-P with some rolls of PROVIA and TMAX 3200 lastly: it is still a pure joy and I would go as far as to say that NOT seing the shot right after you took it adds to the magic of the process...
03-10-2009, 04:41 AM   #10
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Amazon.com: Canon EOS 5D Mark II 21.1MP Full Frame CMOS Digital SLR Camera (Body Only): Camera & Photo

I know prices fluctuate, but $2699 is pretty good looking price if I was in the market for a new 5Dmk2 from Amazon.

Jason
03-10-2009, 04:54 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
Bill - your post kind of contradicts itself.

you start by saying that any pentax FF will be too expensive for peope to buy.
Hi Stephen,

you are right, it was a bit of a ramble, but I was looking from the viewpoint of a cash restricted hobbyist rather than someone who needs the best available from a business point of view; and from that point I do feel that the people in my situation who jumped at the K20D initially may baulk at a camera that is over twice the price and may well mean that they will have to buy a lot of new glass to take full advantage of the larger sensor. it is a lot of cash to invest if you are not going to get any returns from it.

I don't know how many pros use Pentax, but I suspect that over 50% of the initial K20 sales were from the hobby group that may well not jump if a FF comes out.

I have FF lenses from Sigma and Pentax as I have an MZ-S still, and have always anticipated a FF from Pentax, but financial restraints mean that I would only buy one if I were selling a lot of pictures or the price was down to £1000 ish or one came onto the second hand market at a good price.

I enjoy my photography and bought the K20 to try to get a product line to sell but even so, I couldn't afford it when it came out. It does reamain though, the only camera I have bought since 1981 (ME Super) that was still in production at time of purchase.

Bill -
03-10-2009, 06:29 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by StephenG Quote
if they offered a FF even at $1,700 - $2,000 I would buy it on pre-order.. and not "just because its FF".. but because I need the advantages a FF has to offer
Most other Pentaxians are, how to put it mildly, errr...frugal
I suspect the percentage of Pentax users who would buy it would probably be on the order of 5% at most and probably more like 1% or less...
03-10-2009, 06:47 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Most other Pentaxians are, how to put it mildly, errr...frugal
:
03-10-2009, 07:19 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Most other Pentaxians are, how to put it mildly, errr...frugal
I suspect the percentage of Pentax users who would buy it would probably be on the order of 5% at most and probably more like 1% or less...
Only for half of them, the other half brought into it because of the excellent prime lineup. The US Pentax users are particularly frugal because it was marketed that way.

If what you say is true, the price of the used FA* lenses should go below the Nikon and Canon counterparts. Instead, they have gone skyrocket.
03-10-2009, 08:07 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Billgscott Quote
you are right, it was a bit of a ramble, but I was looking from the viewpoint of a cash restricted hobbyist rather than someone who needs the best available from a business point of view; and from that point I do feel that the people in my situation who jumped at the K20D initially may baulk at a camera that is over twice the price and may well mean that they will have to buy a lot of new glass to take full advantage of the larger sensor. it is a lot of cash to invest if you are not going to get any returns from it.
Well, we're in the same boat, but I really do think people who buy a high-end model the first day it's released do have some serious money to burn (especially if they're hobbyists), knowing full well that waiting a couple of months would save them some money.

QuoteOriginally posted by Billgscott Quote
I don't know how many pros use Pentax, but I suspect that over 50% of the initial K20 sales were from the hobby group that may well not jump if a FF comes out.
They will, as long as the price is right. I have a hunch that a lot of those who initially got a K20D already have good FA* and Limiteds to use with FF DSLRs, if ever they do come out. They most likely are those who've used Pentax for quite some time already.

[QUOTE=Billgscott;518903]I have FF lenses from Sigma and Pentax as I have an MZ-S still, and have always anticipated a FF from Pentax, but financial restraints mean that I would only buy one if I were selling a lot of pictures or the price was down to £1000 ish or one came onto the second hand market at a good price.

Same here. Perhaps Pentax will jump in when making an FF DSLR will net them decent margins and they know there'd be a good number who'll buy it (price is a big factor here). For now, they're more keen on extracting margins from the 645D, where there seems to be a captive market in Japan.

QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Most other Pentaxians are, how to put it mildly, errr...frugal
I suspect the percentage of Pentax users who would buy it would probably be on the order of 5% at most and probably more like 1% or less...
I won't even deny the fact that I'm one of those frugal types you're talking about.
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