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03-21-2009, 02:05 AM   #1
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Digital Medium Format

It seems that even if Pentax makes it's move with the 645D, the competition will be much fiercer than expected.
Mamiya announced its new 33MPx DL33 at $20K, dropping theprice of it's 22MPx 645ZDb at $11K.

MAMIYA: News & Events | Press Releases | Success of Mamiya DL28 Spawns Bigger Brother

Amazing stuff.

03-21-2009, 02:10 AM   #2
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11k?

That's almost cheap enough to replace a Nikon D3x with. Mamiya is kicking it up a notch.
Here's hoping the price of FF drops even more.
03-21-2009, 03:53 AM   #3
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I don't like the idea of a touch screen ... so inconvenient.
03-21-2009, 04:05 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philippos Quote
It seems that even if Pentax makes it's move with the 645D, the competition will be much fiercer than expected.
Mamiya announced its new 33MPx DL33 at $20K, dropping theprice of it's 22MPx 645ZDb at $11K.

MAMIYA: News & Events | Press Releases | Success of Mamiya DL28 Spawns Bigger Brother

Amazing stuff.
But 33MP only (speaking MF of course)
Latest Kodak MF CCD is 51MP
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/Products/Fullframe/index.jhtml?pq-path=14425

03-21-2009, 04:40 AM   #5
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For me MP doesn't matter that much. A 16MP 4096 x 4096 px sensor with 9 m pixel size would be perfect. I'm all in for dynamic range and dof control.
03-21-2009, 04:44 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
But 33MP only (speaking MF of course)
Latest Kodak MF CCD is 51MP
Kodak Image Sensor Solutions - Full Frame CCD
If it's affordable, I wouldn't mind a 15MP medium format sensor. I don't need the resolution, just the DOF control.
03-21-2009, 08:51 AM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by fejker Quote
I'm all in for [...] and dof control.
QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
I don't need the resolution, just the DOF control.
Because this is stated so many times, let me make my comment on this once in while...

Available DoF (at a given FoV) is only determined by the physical lens aperture in mm. So, I had a look at the available Pentax 645 prime lens lineup [source: pentax.de]:
  1. 35/3.5 -> 10 mm -> 20/2.0 -> FA 20/2.8, FA24/2.0
  2. 45/2.8 -> 16 mm -> 26/1.6 -> A 28/2, Sigma 30/1.4
  3. 75/2.8 -> 27 mm -> 43/1.6 -> FA 43/1.9, A50/1.2
  4. 120/4.0 Makro -> 30 mm -> 69/2.3 Makro -> FA77/1.8, FA50/2.8 Macro, FA100/2.8 Macro
  5. 150/2.8 -> 54 mm -> 87/1.6 -> FA85/1.4
  6. 200/4.0 -> 50 mm -> 116/2.3 -> FA100/2.8 Macro
  7. 300/4.0 -> 75 mm -> 173/2.3 -> FA135/2.8, FA200/2.8, A135/1.8
  8. 300/5.6
  9. 400/5.6 -> 71 mm -> 231/3.3 -> FA300/2.8, FA200/2.8
How to read:
#. 645 lens focal/aperture -> physical diameter -> FF lens/aperture with same DoF -> closest FF lens in Dimitrov's lens archive (dropping '*'-designations).
(Here, I assumed that FF is a 1.73x crop from MF. Where I used a MF size of 60x45mm which is wrong. The correct value is 56x41.5mm. Fortunately, the argument doesn't depend on this.)

Where the corresponding FF glass actually has wider aperture, I've put it in boldface. I.e., the FA*85/1.4 or A50/1.2 offer DoF control unparalleled in the MF range.

Overall, medium format offers a slight advantage with respect to DoF control over FF. Much less significant than most people would believe w/o going through this exercise. And some lenses at the very short and very long end simply don't exist for MF. The advantages of MF are elsewhere (brighter VF, less noise, potentially much more headroom for digital crop, etc.). Therefore, I never would give up a "high-megapixel" option when going MF.

Last edited by falconeye; 04-01-2009 at 03:12 AM. Reason: added the A*135/1.8 and FA*24/2.0, added 56x41.5 comment
03-21-2009, 09:30 AM   #8
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I should add that 645D sensor won't be as big as 645 film so FOV will not be the same (nor DOF).
Just to make things even a bit more difficult

03-21-2009, 10:36 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Overall, medium format offers a slight advantage with respect to DoF control over FF. .
The DOF control issue is absurd. The problem with MF is too little DOF; even at F:22. One in a million image is shot at 1.4 or 1.2, then in 99% of cases in spite of the shallow DOF - not because of it...
03-21-2009, 10:40 AM   #10
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I would NEVER purchase a MF DSLR. I would have the client rent it if need be or have the manufacturer give it to me...
03-21-2009, 10:57 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by fejker Quote
For me MP doesn't matter that much. A 16MP 4096 x 4096 px sensor with 9 m pixel size would be perfect. I'm all in for dynamic range and dof control.
As far as dynamic range, it's saves in a 16-bit RAW format with a 12-stop range.
This is better than anything I have seen so far.
It should make the possible buyer of a Nikon D3x re-think it a little...
03-21-2009, 03:10 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pl Jensen Quote
The DOF control issue is absurd. The problem with MF is too little DOF; even at F:22. One in a million image is shot at 1.4 or 1.2, then in 99% of cases in spite of the shallow DOF - not because of it...
Depends on what you're shooting. I like my DOF nice and shallow.
03-21-2009, 04:36 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
I would NEVER purchase a MF DSLR. I would have the client rent it if need be or have the manufacturer give it to me...
Not even a Holga?
03-21-2009, 04:51 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
Not even a Holga?
Ever considered that a Holga isn't a DSLR?
03-22-2009, 05:27 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erasmo Quote
Ever considered that a Holga isn't a DSLR?
But they could be. I heard a rumor they were working on a deal with Atari for the electronics, and Etch-A-Sketch for screens.
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