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03-23-2009, 12:04 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
...and to go full frame, appropriate lenses need to be built first before considering a move to another sensor format...
Idiots. Should of spelled it out 2 years ago, and started development even earlier. Not when half of the people who wanted FF left the system already and the other half will leave by the time Pentaf FF will be ready in 2 years.

03-23-2009, 12:07 PM   #17
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Mah....
This means that Pentax will abandoned the production of lenses for the APS-C?

ps.: when Pentax will have a full support lenses for the FF sensor... FF will already be obsolete. :ugh:
03-23-2009, 12:10 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vinfer Quote
Mah....
This means that Pentax will abandoned the production of lenses for the APS-C?

ps.: when Pentax will have a full support lenses for the FF sensor... FF will already be obsolete. :ugh:
I don't think they will abandon APS-C,
I don't think Nikon and Canon will, they will have 2 systems available in parallel.
03-23-2009, 12:58 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
I don't think they will abandon APS-C,
I don't think Nikon and Canon will, they will have 2 systems available in parallel.
I wonder if they will continue to produce anything other than cheapo APS-C consumer zooms. I just don't see much of a future for pro grade APS-C cameras like the Canon 50D and Nikon D300. Virtually anyone in that market would rather have a 5D or D700, but are just settling for the APS-C bodies until prices drop on the 35mm bodies. Once that market goes 35mm there wont be much of a need for $900 f/2.8 APS-C zooms when the only APS-C camera bodies produced are $400 Canon Rebel's and Nikon D60's.


Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 03-23-2009 at 01:37 PM.
03-23-2009, 01:33 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
I don't think they will abandon APS-C,
I don't think Nikon and Canon will, they will have 2 systems available in parallel.
Basicaly, nikon and canon do not have an APS system. They have a couple lenses, nothing more.
03-23-2009, 01:34 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
^As far as I understand, no manufacturers work directly with Sigma...
For good reasons: Sigme do not pay licences and reverse engineer the mounts.
No wonder there are compatibility problems.
03-23-2009, 01:57 PM   #22
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don't believe everything you read
03-23-2009, 04:36 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
to go full frame, appropriate lenses need to be built first before considering a move to another sensor format (which a lot of you guys have already pointed out in arguments before).
In all sincerity, I am the original poster of this information, cf. here:https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/525379-post123.html

And I already did 1 week ago...

But I only got one reponse ... (from ftpaddict )

03-23-2009, 05:06 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Link here.

Basically, the manager said that Pentax will stop chasing MPs (yay!), isn't interested in EVF for now (cites that the pentaprism in the K20D can be favorably compared to any EVF today - I agree), and to go full frame, appropriate lenses need to be built first before considering a move to another sensor format (which a lot of you guys have already pointed out in arguments before).
Good, no more MP increases, it's just not needed. As for the EVF vs OVF; the best EVF out there right now is on the Panasonic G1. I had that camera for 3 months and I can tell you that it is no where as nice as an OVF. It was relief to my eyes after using an OVF again.

On that note, I have a FF which has no MP and is now my main camera.
03-23-2009, 05:28 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I wonder if they will continue to produce anything other than cheapo APS-C consumer zooms. I just don't see much of a future for pro grade APS-C cameras like the Canon 50D and Nikon D300. Virtually anyone in that market would rather have a 5D or D700, but are just settling for the APS-C bodies until prices drop on the 35mm bodies. Once that market goes 35mm there wont be much of a need for $900 f/2.8 APS-C zooms when the only APS-C camera bodies produced are $400 Canon Rebel's and Nikon D60's.
But the $900 (under $800 really) APS-C f/2.8 zooms are much cheaper and lighter than the compartible f/2.8 FF zooms from Nikon and Canon.

Plus, you can still use these zooms on the FF body (as long as you are not using Canon.)

If you want to make an argument that there is no much point in high quality APS-C fixed lens, then I agree with you. As much as I like the DA15 and DA21. I much rather use a 20mm FF lens on a FF body. And a FF 28mm 2.8 is usually a very cheap lens too.
03-23-2009, 05:42 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
In all sincerity, I am the original poster of this information, cf. here:https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/525379-post123.html

And I already did 1 week ago...

But I only got one reponse ... (from ftpaddict )
Whoops, my bad. I think I didn't get to see that, otherwise I would've replied to your post, too. I usually frequent PhotographyBlog and 1001noisycameras.com for photography news, and they (PhotographyBlog) seem to have taken their sweet time translating the German interview.

Again, my apologies.

QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Is it just me or is Pentax's concern about not having enough FF glass a non-issue? They are still producing six FA primes covering various focal lengths from 31mm to 100mm. The DA 200 & 300 supposedly cover FF just fine. Plus, there is always Sigma. Sigma has Pentax covered with a brand new HSM 24-70mm 2.8, 70-200mm 2.8, 12-24mm, and even the extreme tele zooms. Finally there obviously tons of used FA lenses readily available.

I don't see how it would be much of a challenge for Pentax to update one their 28-80mm's and include it as a kit lens. That's really the only thing they'd need to launch a new camera until they can get FA's back into production.
Like others have mentioned, Sigma doesn't play nice with mount patent owners.

Tamron is an option though, as is Tokina.
03-23-2009, 07:24 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Whoops, my bad.
Your post is great.
I just couldn't refrain from playing little child and whine that I said it first

BTW.
I am wondering to which extent it is allowed to transscript an interview which appeared in a printed magazine elsewhere. I see they try to only "cite" the original article which probably is what is legally allowed still.

The full interview actually is with representants from all vendors ("roundtable") and it wasn't the first such roundtable done by this magazine.

Which is why I noted the shift in the response given by Pentax. Up until this year's roundtable, Pentax would respond "no need for FF". Now they say, "Let's do FF lenses first".

This shift in answer is a much more significant bit of information than the entire article published by photographyblog.com.

So, they were not only late -- they missed the real story!


Read more here (the full interview):
http://forum.digitalfotonetz.de/viewtopic.php?t=63273 (German language)

Last edited by falconeye; 03-23-2009 at 07:37 PM.
03-24-2009, 02:30 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I wonder if they will continue to produce anything other than cheapo APS-C consumer zooms. I just don't see much of a future for pro grade APS-C cameras like the Canon 50D and Nikon D300. Virtually anyone in that market would rather have a 5D or D700, but are just settling for the APS-C bodies until prices drop on the 35mm bodies. Once that market goes 35mm there wont be much of a need for $900 f/2.8 APS-C zooms when the only APS-C camera bodies produced are $400 Canon Rebel's and Nikon D60's.
i know i don't want full-frame digital body - waaay too big for my needs, waaay too big lenses.
i would hate to see higher-specced aps-c models discontinued.

when i need ultra-wide lenses of ultra-shallow DoF, i use pre-AF film cameras - light and small.
03-24-2009, 04:27 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Your post is great.
I just couldn't refrain from playing little child and whine that I said it first

BTW.
I am wondering to which extent it is allowed to transscript an interview which appeared in a printed magazine elsewhere. I see they try to only "cite" the original article which probably is what is legally allowed still.

The full interview actually is with representants from all vendors ("roundtable") and it wasn't the first such roundtable done by this magazine.

Which is why I noted the shift in the response given by Pentax. Up until this year's roundtable, Pentax would respond "no need for FF". Now they say, "Let's do FF lenses first".

This shift in answer is a much more significant bit of information than the entire article published by photographyblog.com.

So, they were not only late -- they missed the real story!

Read more here (the full interview):
DigitalFotoNetz.de :: Thema anzeigen - Die Pentax Strategie (German language)
Thanks for understanding. I actually refreshed the News and Rumors page twice before posting, since I really didn't want to create multiple threads for this.

I do agree that Pentax seems to be singing a different tune now about FF, but I really wouldn't read too much into it. It still sounds non-commital, though, more like a "we'll watch the market for developments"-type of answer.
03-24-2009, 05:08 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I really wouldn't read too much into it.
It is more obvious in the German original.

It says something like "A successful introduction of a new system depends on an appropriate lens lineup. One step after the other." and "In the past, when we tried to establish our digital SLRs, it wasn't helpful actually, to have an incomplete lens lineup and delivery shortage for some of the more popular lenses".

This sounds like "we are in the process to plan for FF". While in the past, they said that APS-C is the superior format for their market and no need to think about FF.



I looked it up:
*istD: 2003
DA 16-45/4 AL ED: 2003

In 2004, they additionally released the DA18-55, two DFA lenses and the DA40.

So, they launched with one lens and added one cheaper zoom (for *istDS) and three primes the year after.

Which now is considered to be inappropriate (and Pentax obviously already started to think about it...). So, they want more than a single lens to go with it.


So, what Gabriele Remmers really told us is this:

We are working on a FF lineup like this:
body, normal prime (easy) or normal zoom (like existing FA 24-90/3.5-4.5), plus f/2.8 pro zoom pair 24-70 + 70-200zoom (or equivalent, like existing FA*28-70/2.8 + FA*80-200/2.8) launch offer.

Should really be doable if Samsung delivers the sensor...
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