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03-29-2009, 12:05 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by ltdstar Quote
i want one just the body...i'll use my old manual lenses...probably need to sell all my digital lenses and everything else i own and still need to use couple credit cards to buy it...hmmm...time to do alot of overtime...
Heh, I'm in the same boat. Got the 67 to 645 converter and a few 6x7 lenses. I'll wait for the used market though. In the meantime I'll get a decent film scanner and keep shooting with the 6x7.

03-29-2009, 12:32 AM   #47
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Aren't you happy???????

Pentax took a huge step over Canon and Nikon. They don't do MF cameras. So now our brand is "better" than them. This is BIG stuff!!! That tech will filter down to us that don't want to spend 20k on a body. Would I spend 3k or 4k on a true pro camera, sure, that's what I do. But not for my budget quite yet. Are they're folks that would? Sure, I hope so.

I think it's a smart move if they MARKET it right. I want to see the Pentax 645D in every magazine I get. That will help the base. If they see this totally pro cam and can buy another Pentax cam that costs lower and "feel" like a pro, it's a win for all us.

Think about it, the other big boys want the NFL to thank them for their sales. They see Canon on the sidelines and that's what the consumers want...to feel like "I just bought a pro camera". But they bought junk.

If fashion people bought this and it's marketed as a true top of line of camera, it will work!

Just hang in there, we'll get the stuff we pros and consumers desire.
03-29-2009, 02:53 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by CaymanImaging Quote
That tech will filter down to us that don't want to spend 20k on a body.

Do you mean through the used market (3-5 years from the release date)? If so expect to wait a few years until the price of used 645D goes bellow 5000$ if launch price is 10000$, especially if they sell in confidential numbers.

I don't really see what technology from the 645D would trickle down to APS-C DSLRs users. AFAIK, 645D technology would rather benefit from advances in the more dynamical APS-C DSLRs than the other way around.
03-29-2009, 04:55 AM   #49
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The reality is the 645D isn't targeted at the average Pentax DSLR user.
Given that many Pentax users are price conscious with regards to the camera body and the price of lenses, whether the forthcoming 645D costs $15K, $10K or even $5K is immaterial because most people here won't have the means or even if they can afford it cannot justify buying one.

I find it amusing that there are those who brag about wanting to buy the new camera on the one hand but can't even pony up the cash to buy the current Pentax flagship K20D.

03-29-2009, 06:35 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Do you mean through the used market (3-5 years from the release date)? If so expect to wait a few years until the price of used 645D goes bellow 5000$ if launch price is 10000$, especially if they sell in confidential numbers.

I don't really see what technology from the 645D would trickle down to APS-C DSLRs users. AFAIK, 645D technology would rather benefit from advances in the more dynamical APS-C DSLRs than the other way around.
The idea is that the main research is thrown into the higher profit margin camera. Things like processors, ADC, even some sensor tech to move the large volumes of data at reasonable rates. Improved AF sensors ect... Canon and Nikon trickle down improvements from their pro cameras to the base models over time.. I see no reason why this can't happen here, though in a limited scope since there is a large gap from 645 to aps-c...
03-29-2009, 06:59 AM   #51
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Like they say in game of poker - too rich for my blood...
03-29-2009, 07:30 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
By fixed sensor I mean one that can not be upgraded in the future, like you can do on a 'Blad etc. A removable back or module design. Many Fashion Advertising photographers including myself use MF when required. It really depends on final usage and the demands of the client. For most magazine stuff I use the Pentax.

Hi Ben,

Before Hoya took over the controls of Pentax and promptly put the 645D on the back burner, my understanding from my long term contacts at Pentax was that the 645D was always going to be designed to have and upgrade pathway with respect to the sensor. The swap out of sensors (upgrades) would be accomplished by sending the system into Pentax and having said modification done by them.

Now, time has passed and those contacts certainly are much fewer in numbers and Hoya has forced what remains to tighten their lips.

So, I ask you, as your ex-communication with Pentax is far more recent than my contact breakdown, was I miss informed about this modality of an upgrade path?

I do recall that the first sensor to originally be destined for use was, I believe, 18 MP. I also vaguely recall Pentax publically saying that upgrades would be available.

While my K20D's are wonderful cameras, I can easily see purchasing this camera as I am going to assume that the fluency of image quality with all my current 645 FA's (I have all but the 35mm... only have the A version of that lens) would be fairly seamless under all but the most trying shooting situations. It might even get me back into doing some types of work I long ago abandoned because of some of the hassels of MF film.

Ergonomically, I don't see this camera being a problem handling under any conditions. While not a lighweight, I don't think it much heavier than a fully decked out professional full frame digital 35mm.

Stephen
03-29-2009, 07:49 AM   #53
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If the sensor can be upgraded, why couldn't Pentax sell the 645D at different price points, based upon which sensor was in the camera? Kinda like buying cars...you can go for the standard 4-cyliner, opt for a V6, or go all-out and get the V8.

03-29-2009, 08:55 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
If the sensor can be upgraded, why couldn't Pentax sell the 645D at different price points, based upon which sensor was in the camera? Kinda like buying cars...you can go for the standard 4-cyliner, opt for a V6, or go all-out and get the V8.
They'd probably do that over time, when they already have a bevy of sensors to sell. But that's a good idea. It sounds pretty much like the RED system - pick which sensor fits your budget.
03-29-2009, 09:06 AM   #55
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The company is really trying hard to get the price right. They know that close to 20G, nobody would buy. Their target price, though they cannot promise due to fluctuation in exchange rate, is about 8G, according to Mr. Tanaka at PIE, where he gave a talk in regards to 645D. He is a R and D guy, I believe.
03-29-2009, 01:17 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
The idea is that the main research is thrown into the higher profit margin camera. Things like processors, ADC, even some sensor tech to move the large volumes of data at reasonable rates. Improved AF sensors ect... Canon and Nikon trickle down improvements from their pro cameras to the base models over time.. I see no reason why this can't happen here, though in a limited scope since there is a large gap from 645 to aps-c...
While I do agree that Canon and Nikon professional camera's technologies eventually trickle down to their amateur lineup (but only to some extent), I can't really see the parallel with Pentax MF.

Technologically speaking, MF is usually a good step behind APS-C mainly because it doesn't really need what most people want from APS-C, ie faster AF, higher fps, lower high ISO noise or wider DR.

MF have higher DR by design, they are not that good at high ISO, are rather slow at AF or fps but it usually doesn't matter because these are highly specialized cameras while people are usually looking for versatility in an APS-C DSLR.

Different scopes, different needs, not that many in common IMO.

Maybe some improvements in data processing speed... but not much more beyond that.
03-29-2009, 01:56 PM   #57
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I would rather have a digital 6x7 not 645. however, like Gooshin I would love to have an affordable digital MF. superb IQ and resolving power with the ability to use it just like any digital SLR (not having to worry about wasting frames and buying film) yes please! however even if the 645D is the cheapest priced digital MF I still couldnt afford one. not a chance in hell.
03-29-2009, 02:59 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Technologically speaking, MF is usually a good step behind APS-C
While the 645D won't change this, it may be more modern (or I should say, up to date?) than we think. At least, it has a brand new multipoint AF system and a continuous drive mode.
03-29-2009, 09:28 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
While I do agree that Canon and Nikon professional camera's technologies eventually trickle down to their amateur lineup (but only to some extent), I can't really see the parallel with Pentax MF.

Technologically speaking, MF is usually a good step behind APS-C mainly because it doesn't really need what most people want from APS-C, ie faster AF, higher fps, lower high ISO noise or wider DR.

MF have higher DR by design, they are not that good at high ISO, are rather slow at AF or fps but it usually doesn't matter because these are highly specialized cameras while people are usually looking for versatility in an APS-C DSLR.

Different scopes, different needs, not that many in common IMO.

Maybe some improvements in data processing speed... but not much more beyond that.
Without knowing anything at all about the 645D, we are all limited to making guesswork based on others' digital MF systems. Who knows if Pentax intends to follow them or carve a new path? While it may not approach speed levels of 1D-type cameras, it's also possible that Pentax will try to put in higher ISO values. I mean, the sensor real estate is already there, and it does help them to differentiate their product from Mamiya and Hasselblad.

Also, I wouldn't underestimate the value of getting experience and technology in moving loads of data fairly quickly. While it may not solve the lack of comparatively fast AF speed, it will help in better achieving higher FPS (I really think it's a data pipeline thing as opposed to physical shutter limitations) as well as beneficial in implementing video (becoming essential in today's marketing, if not actual photography).
03-29-2009, 10:35 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
While I do agree that Canon and Nikon professional camera's technologies eventually trickle down to their amateur lineup (but only to some extent), I can't really see the parallel with Pentax MF.
but PhaseOne made CaptureOne... at least something for APS-C users ... I wonder if Pentax will still ship the same PPL w/ 645D
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