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03-29-2009, 11:58 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Also, I wouldn't underestimate the value of getting experience and technology in moving loads of data fairly quickly. While it may not solve the lack of comparatively fast AF speed, it will help in better achieving higher FPS (I really think it's a data pipeline thing as opposed to physical shutter limitations) as well as beneficial in implementing video (becoming essential in today's marketing, if not actual photography).
Knowing Kodak MF sensors are limited to 1-1.5 fps, I doubt it.
Big buffer may be interesting although a big buffer for 33Mpix datas will be... quite big indeed.

03-30-2009, 04:29 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Knowing Kodak MF sensors are limited to 1-1.5 fps, I doubt it.
Big buffer may be interesting although a big buffer for 33Mpix datas will be... quite big indeed.
I'm of the assumption that data readout speed has more to do with the supporting electronics than the sensor itself. I guess I'm wrong about it.
03-30-2009, 06:06 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I'm of the assumption that data readout speed has more to do with the supporting electronics than the sensor itself. I guess I'm wrong about it.
It's both. You have the same limitations w/ flash memory and regular DRAM computer memory. You can only do it so fast and add so many parallel paths before you run out of pins or make it too expensive (each parallel path adds more cells, takes up space, uses pins, etc.). Chip design as in most things in life is a set of tradeoffs (used to do it for my 1st career)...

The reason the K20D can only do 20fps is because of sensor readout speed as well AFAIK. Probably the same w/ the new Canon Rebel Ti1 which can only do 20fps HD video...
03-30-2009, 08:25 AM   #64
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News to the sensor...

Seems an article on luminouse landscape covering the PIE brings some new ideas regarding the choice of sensor from Pentax.
Obviously they seem to offer some choice to the costumer for the sensor and AA-filter, which can be changed by service even later.
Getting more and more interesting...
LL PIE-report

03-30-2009, 08:47 AM   #65
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I don't need the resolution for what I do... I am having no problems what so ever getting 70mp images out of my k20d.

Dynamic range is another story though, can always use more, because making hdri images from bracketed shots AND combining images into panoramas is very tricky.
03-30-2009, 09:52 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Seems an article on luminouse landscape covering the PIE brings some new ideas regarding the choice of sensor from Pentax
The most interesting tidbit from that article was that they haven't made a final choice on which sensor they'll use - so everything is still very speculative at this point.
03-30-2009, 10:11 AM   #67
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Something very interesting here will be the number game with the sensors. I am guessing that up until recently companies like Kodak have shipped a very limited number of MF sensors out the door. Producing larger sensors becomes drastically more expensive than their smaller counter parts, and producing them in small quantity runs is even more expensive.

I do not know how many backs Phase One and Mamyia sell every year, but I am guessing it is a very small amount. Early news and rumors indicated to us that Pentax is also anticipating low demand, however at that price point and pending an economic up turn I cannot foresee a demand as small as the initial news is suggesting.

If Pentax was smart about all of this, they are trying to base their price point on a scale of rent vs own for the average pro using an MF system. I would venture to guess that most pros shooting MF rent because of the cost, if Pentax can market to those that rent rather than own then they can quickly gain market share.

All that being said Pentax might be able to go to a company like Kodak and be able to realistically offer them a production line of MF sensors double that of what they produce for PhaseOne and the others. Leica will obviously throw a whole new kink in this mix though, but the more MF sensors being produced the cheaper they will become.
03-30-2009, 10:17 AM   #68
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03-30-2009, 04:19 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by joerg Quote
Something very interesting here will be the number game with the sensors. I am guessing that up until recently companies like Kodak have shipped a very limited number of MF sensors out the door. Producing larger sensors becomes drastically more expensive than their smaller counter parts, and producing them in small quantity runs is even more expensive.

I do not know how many backs Phase One and Mamyia sell every year, but I am guessing it is a very small amount. Early news and rumors indicated to us that Pentax is also anticipating low demand, however at that price point and pending an economic up turn I cannot foresee a demand as small as the initial news is suggesting.

If Pentax was smart about all of this, they are trying to base their price point on a scale of rent vs own for the average pro using an MF system. I would venture to guess that most pros shooting MF rent because of the cost, if Pentax can market to those that rent rather than own then they can quickly gain market share.

All that being said Pentax might be able to go to a company like Kodak and be able to realistically offer them a production line of MF sensors double that of what they produce for PhaseOne and the others. Leica will obviously throw a whole new kink in this mix though, but the more MF sensors being produced the cheaper they will become.
.


Michael Reichmann of the luminous landscape has this to say about the upcoming Pentax MF camera

Luminous landscape

I don't particularly like some Michaels photography but as far as I'm concerned, he's a good reliable source of information. And he has a good eye for Image quality, He was suitably impressed with the images printed from the Pentax Digital 645 at PIE.

his comments in regard to the sensor of the 645 are of particular interest.
03-30-2009, 04:38 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
.


Michael Reichmann of the luminous landscape has this to say about the upcoming Pentax MF camera

Luminous landscape

I don't particularly like some Michaels photography but as far as I'm concerned, he's a good reliable source of information. And he has a good eye for Image quality, He was suitably impressed with the images printed from the Pentax Digital 645 at PIE.

his comments in regard to the sensor of the 645 are of particular interest.
Actually the quote regarding the AA filter and the "marketed worldwide" is interesting.
03-30-2009, 05:43 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Actually the quote regarding the AA filter and the "marketed worldwide" is interesting.
Yes it is especially considering they said they would not sell it abroad because they were afraid the demand wouldn't be high enough.

And the whole AA filter thing will be interesting, depending on how they implement it.
03-30-2009, 07:15 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
It's both. You have the same limitations w/ flash memory and regular DRAM computer memory. You can only do it so fast and add so many parallel paths before you run out of pins or make it too expensive (each parallel path adds more cells, takes up space, uses pins, etc.). Chip design as in most things in life is a set of tradeoffs (used to do it for my 1st career)...

The reason the K20D can only do 20fps is because of sensor readout speed as well AFAIK. Probably the same w/ the new Canon Rebel Ti1 which can only do 20fps HD video...
Thanks for the clarification. This does explain a lot to me. Would it be possible (in theory, since Pentax doesn't seem too interested to do it for real) for the 20 fps in the K20D to be translated instead to, say, 10 fps but with bigger image sizes?
03-31-2009, 05:33 AM   #73
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Hmmm I will probably wait a few years(2-4)... when the price drops and more lense are available...
but yes I definately want one for wedding photos...

Will probably have to sell a few of my organs to get my hands on it though...
04-03-2009, 09:15 AM   #74
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Hi all

Am I the only one to question the apparently unchallenged assumption which states that:
QuoteQuote:
...they (Pentax) would not sell it (645 MF digital) abroad because they were afraid the demand wouldn't be high enough.
To the best of my recollection, Japan's economy has been in deep recession for quite a number of years now. Having taken this into consideration, precisely why does Pentoya's management seriously believe they'd exclusively be able to sell 200 or more 645 MF digital cameras into a severely depressed Japanese market, whilst cynically ignoring the pent-up demand elsewhere around the globe ?

Best regards
Richard
04-03-2009, 10:24 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Confused Quote
Hi all

Am I the only one to question the apparently unchallenged assumption which states that:


To the best of my recollection, Japan's economy has been in deep recession for quite a number of years now. Having taken this into consideration, precisely why does Pentoya's management seriously believe they'd exclusively be able to sell 200 or more 645 MF digital cameras into a severely depressed Japanese market, whilst cynically ignoring the pent-up demand elsewhere around the globe ?

Best regards
Richard
I'd rather say that they wanna backup their as***

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 645D in most countries including the US, maybe a bit later when they're sure it sells reasonably well in domestic market.
It also allows them to tune and ramp production without geeks (us) being angry
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