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03-26-2009, 07:18 AM   #1
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645d news

Some Pentax 645D info at PIE2009 Tokyo - Photo.net Medium Format Forum

price under 10000 dollar ( as i expected considering the actual mfmarket and its evolution next year)

release next year


at this point i'd like to know if the back is detachable and used with others camera...i'd like to use it for architectural and interior photo, and also for still life, but i want a camera with movements. Leaf and phase one and hassy can be used with many view camera. If the back is a closed system i will not buy the camera at all, maybe only if they provide also a series of tilt and shift lens.


at this point if they price the camera at 9000 dolalr with the 55, and produce a series of tshift lenses, the camera will become a real contender for nikon d3x and all the ff camera in the market, together with the other back.

for me pentax has done a very smart move.

03-26-2009, 07:27 AM   #2
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At a sub-$10.000 price point, I have a feeling this has potential to, at least, murder the rumored Nikon MX system. With the D3X at $8.000, Nikon can't possibly put their medium format camera anywhere below $10.000 without cannibalizing their own line severely.
03-26-2009, 08:25 AM   #3
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�yPIE2009�z�u645 Digital�v‚ðŽQ�l�o•i‚µ‚½ƒyƒ“ƒ^ƒbƒNƒX

There is the data of launch, but it's not public info
Two SD slots, no CF
It seems - several points of AF
No SR (of course)
DFA55 could be with SDM

maybe DFA645 28/4

Last edited by ogl; 03-26-2009 at 09:23 PM.
03-26-2009, 08:28 PM   #4
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I hear the size of the sensor will be somewhere between 35mm and 645, making it a bit smaller than the actual 645.

03-26-2009, 10:30 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nubi Quote
I hear the size of the sensor will be somewhere between 35mm and 645, making it a bit smaller than the actual 645.
There are many rumors about the 645D crop factor ratio on dpreview.

Some talk about a 1.36 crop ratio. Others say it's going to be 1.2x or less. I doubt it.

PhaseOne, Mamiya, Leaf and Hasselblad all have sensors ranging in the 1.5 to 1.1 ratio, with, AFAIK, only the PhaseOne P65+ actually achieving 645 medium format full frame.

My bet is on a 1.3 crop factor, which could explain the rumor about the 1.3x crop factor APS-H sensor that was supposed to be in an upcoming K30D.


Anyway, if Hoya Pentax can manage to keep the price under $10K, it could really become an alternative to the FF DSLRs, at least for studio shooters. With more per-pixel sharpness than a FF DSLR, a digital MF has real advantages in the world of large prints and ultrasharp pictures.

Of course, the APS-C and FF DSLRs have some advantages over MF, one of which is flexibility: you can shoot at ISO 1600 with a Nikon D300 using a 400mm F/2.8 lens and get very good shots of a race car as it goes through the finish line.

Now to do the same with a MF camera would require the longest tele available, a 2x teleconverter, two tripods and good manual focusing abilities. And at ISO 1600, don't expect the 645D MF to do so good in the noise departement. The sensors in MF cameras aren't meant to be used in such way (unless the 645D can prove otherwise).

Still, a 645D could be a very potent camera in the hands an experimented photographer. Even some pros could be tempted.

But as long as the 645D isn't backed up by a real pro service, I doubt the pros will abandon their PhaseOne and Blad MF (or Nikon/Canon FF) for a Pentax 645D, even with a $20K+ difference in price.

A pro using a MF will not be so worried about the price of its camera than he/she will be about the monthly overhead for his 18,000 sq. ft. studio and his/her 3 permanent employees.

But who knows?. The 645D might cause a real surprise in the world of pro photo.
03-26-2009, 11:17 PM   #6
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Also, they say that the sensors will not be made by Samsung, and that it will be 40 to 50 MP. Because most will use tripod with it, they plan to not include shake reduction. AF will also be considerably better, and all previous 645 lens will be compatible. They hope to cut the price close to 8G, but they r not sure if it is possible.
03-27-2009, 12:34 AM   #7
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It is possible to sell it bellow the total costs of one unit and then cover the difference by selling good glass to new users. But that will be extremely hard to do since there is a lot of old used 645 glass around. Or maybe market the 645D to lure in the entry level users (masses of them) and make them move up the chain of DSLRs they have to offer (hard to do but still more doable than selling a lot of new 645 glass).

Pentax needs good smart marketing ATM.
03-27-2009, 03:01 AM   #8
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Available MF sensors

AFAIK, the only sensors readily available for MF cameras are made by Kodak.

Those are all CCDs and crop factor varies from 1.3x to 1.2x, compared to original 645 film format. FPS is about 1fps, but never 2fps.

So no, no fast fps, no LiveView.

03-27-2009, 03:51 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
Some Pentax 645D info at PIE2009 Tokyo - Photo.net Medium Format Forum

price under 10000 dollar ( as i expected considering the actual mfmarket and its evolution next year)

release next year


at this point i'd like to know if the back is detachable and used with others camera...i'd like to use it for architectural and interior photo, and also for still life, but i want a camera with movements. Leaf and phase one and hassy can be used with many view camera. If the back is a closed system i will not buy the camera at all, maybe only if they provide also a series of tilt and shift lens.


at this point if they price the camera at 9000 dolalr with the 55, and produce a series of tshift lenses, the camera will become a real contender for nikon d3x and all the ff camera in the market, together with the other back.

for me pentax has done a very smart move.
I just hope they do market it outside Japan, though. If they're gonna price it at around $10k, anyway, it's pretty competitive in the MF market and even might pose a threat, however small, to the highest-end FF DSLRs. At least Pentax will have a presence in the pro market.
03-27-2009, 05:00 AM   #10
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I agree $10,000 is a very competetive price point

But like they said 645D is for Japan Homemarket only. So maybe a Photokina 2010 release, like Fall 2010 in Japan, then if successful how long, how many more months to go global? Months, year, years?

Thats the thing the used to drive me crazy about Pentax:

Wait Around Long Enough & We'll Make It.

Back in 1970's every camera maker offered an image of their "System". Whether you need every item or not it illustrated what all the manufacturer offered & inspired confidence.

I've never seen "roadmap concept" of selling products that do not exist for sale today or tomorrow until I added pentax 6 years ago. Words to describe unspec'd priduct at unlisted prices to be offered at somepoint in the future maybe:

"All Subject To Change"

I used to believe the Roadmap Concept. Take a lens like 60-250 SDM which makes me believe otherwise now. 1.4x SDM TC now suffers the same fate:

Pentax Roadmap? Easier said Than Done.

And lets say $10,000 is the 645D price, in today's imaging world that could be Two D700 or Two 5D Mark II or Two Sony A900 and a few key lenses. Don't most pro's have a back up camera onhand, ready to go? And lets be real, right now in USA $10,638.30 is 1 Million Yen actually. A few weeks ago 1 Million Yen in USA was $11,494.25. Whats a Million Yen cost in your currency? What kinda of prices will the D700, 5D2, or Sony A900 or their improved upon replacement cameras be at by late 2010? Its tough comparing equiptment thats available for sale today to roadmapped products that no one has reviewed or proven or even officially priced.

That all said, the leak stating a price point of less than $10,000 is a head turner. Too bad pentax aren't selling 645D today in global marketplace, sounds like a very competetive price point. In the meantime I guess we'll continue to get some cool looking colored plastic aps-c dslr limited editions.... well again, for Japan Homemarket to talk about.











QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I just hope they do market it outside Japan, though. If they're gonna price it at around $10k, anyway, it's pretty competitive in the MF market and even might pose a threat, however small, to the highest-end FF DSLRs. At least Pentax will have a presence in the pro market.

Last edited by Samsungian; 03-27-2009 at 05:52 AM. Reason: "PMA" changed "Photokina"
03-27-2009, 05:21 AM   #11
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Why are you comparing the 645D with the likes of D700/5DMkII/A900? That makes no sense, it's just Pentax-bashing - as usual from you.
03-27-2009, 05:46 AM   #12
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you're all over the place as usual

QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
But like they said 645D is for Japan Homemarket only.
Well JC from Pentax USA said they don't believe that will bring it to the States due to what they anticipate as poor sales. In your mind that equals "Japan only" what 470 million people EU market could mean to you or extremely prosperous Asian zones such as Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong for example. Hell, no US means Japan only for you.

QuoteQuote:
So maybe a PMA 2010 release, like Fall 2010 in Japan, then if successful how long, how many more months to go global? Months, year, years?
This is hilarious because guess what PMA just ended and they didn't gave too much sh&* about it choosing to announce the camera at PIE about 3 weeks latter. So, yes, you're so rrrright ........ they MUST unveil the "thing" at PMA 10 for sure and launch it between Xmas and New Year's Eve to meet the 2010 deadline.

QuoteQuote:
Thats the thing the used to drive me crazy about Pentax:

Wait Around Long Enough & We'll Make It.
And of course the rest just have absolutely *everything* one can wish for ready and available. That is if you don't mind to buy at premium prices 90s optics with a glaze of digital coatings and a motor inside. Lots of examples from C, N and S!

QuoteQuote:
Back in 1970's every camera maker offered an image of their "System". Whether you need every item or not it illustrated what all the manufacturer offered & inspired confidence.
Indeed until this "confidence" ended with a totally new lens mount for C and Oly at least.

QuoteQuote:
I've never seen "roadmap concept" of selling products that do not exist for sale today or tomorrow until I added pentax 6 years ago. Words to describe unspec'd priduct at unlisted prices to be offered at somepoint in the future maybe:

"All Subject To Change"
You sound like someone was taking money from your pocket for something that doesn't exist. Besides with that attitude I guess you've never seen a concept car that brought some design changes for the future mass produced models, huh?

QuoteQuote:
I used to believe the Roadmap Concept. Take a lens like 60-250 SDM which makes me believe otherwise now. 1.4x SDM TC now suffers the same fate:
Yep, Pentax will be forever bashed for 2 things: poor qc in initial batches of DA*16-50 and the delay of the DA* 60-250. Somehow you strike me as a Sigma or Tamron kind of guy and hence you have no DA* whatsoever why does this bother you?

QuoteQuote:
Pentax Roadmap? Easier said Than Done.
Yep, you should know the best that talk is cheap ... you're the king of that.

QuoteQuote:
And lets say $10,000 is the 645D price, in today's imaging world that could be Two D700 or Two 5D Mark II or Two Sony A900 and a few key lenses. Don't most pro's have a back up camera onhand, ready to go? And lets be real, right now in USA $10,638.30 is 1 Million Yen actually. A few weeks ago 1 Million Yen in USA was $11,494.25. Whats a Million Yen cost in your currency? What kinda of prices will the D700, 5D2, or Sony A900 or their improved upon replacement cameras be at by late 2010? Its tough comparing equiptment thats available for sale today to roadmapped products that no one has reviewed or proven or even officially priced.

That all said, the leak stating a price point of less than $10,000 is a head turner. Too bad pentax aren't selling 645D today in global marketplace, sounds like a very competetive price point. In the meantime I guess we'll continue to get some cool looking colored plastic aps-c dslr limited editions.... well again, for Japan Homemarket to talk about.
1) the target price is 1M Yen how many USD would that mean in 2010 is not Pentax's problem;
2) again and again you judge comparatively the prices in the US. Not a bad thing for you but unreal for the most of us from Europe, Asia, Australia and the rest of the world. C, N and in a lesser degree S have significantly lower gear prices for the US market than the Europe (VAT excluded);
3) you can also buy a car or 50 point and shots or whatever with 1M Yen but this has as little relevance as your reasoning. It's about the same as comparing how many K20Ds can you buy for the price of a FF camera. The whole point is IF YOU NEED WHAT YOUR MONEY WILL BUY ABOVE THE OTHER LESSER OFFER (RESOLUTION, DR FOR EXAMPLE) AND DON'T MIND THE DRAWBACKS (LESS PORTABLE, PROBABLY MUCH SLOWER) OR DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FINANCIAL ASPECT YOU HAVE THE CHOICE. For a guy who bolsters his FF cameras on a multi-daily basis I thought you understood at least that;
4) Again the price is not 10K USD
5) Well WE WILL continue to get some "cool looking colored plastic aps-c dslr limited editions" and my bet is that you'll continue to get C and N gear at bargain prices.

Radu
03-27-2009, 06:03 AM   #13
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Hmmmm, The Cool~aide is tasty...

As usual we Pentaxians get to debate Pentax' product promises instead of Pentax products they offer for sale today. Its March 27th 2009. Only Time will tell when 645D actually launches, you know after the date Pentax offers it for sale, it gets reviewed, someone here buys one (Maybe~You?) and shows off their manipulated or unmanipulated images captured with it. I'll debate this 645D with you then. IN THE MEANTIME, Be well, may the next 18-20 months be kind to you while you Wait & Eagerly Debate with others this overdue to market, unissued, unspec'd & unpriced 645D.


QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Well JC from Pentax USA said they don't believe that will bring it to the States due to what they anticipate as poor sales. In your mind that equals "Japan only" what 470 million people EU market could mean to you or extremely prosperous Asian zones such as Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong for example. Hell, no US means Japan only for you.



This is hilarious because guess what PMA just ended and they didn't gave too much sh&* about it choosing to announce the camera at PIE about 3 weeks latter. So, yes, you're so rrrright ........ they MUST unveil the "thing" at PMA 10 for sure and launch it between Xmas and New Year's Eve to meet the 2010 deadline.



And of course the rest just have absolutely *everything* one can wish for ready and available. That is if you don't mind to buy at premium prices 90s optics with a glaze of digital coatings and a motor inside. Lots of examples from C, N and S!



Indeed until this "confidence" ended with a totally new lens mount for C and Oly at least.



You sound like someone was taking money from your pocket for something that doesn't exist. Besides with that attitude I guess you've never seen a concept car that brought some design changes for the future mass produced models, huh?



Yep, Pentax will be forever bashed for 2 things: poor qc in initial batches of DA*16-50 and the delay of the DA* 60-250. Somehow you strike me as a Sigma or Tamron kind of guy and hence you have no DA* whatsoever why does this bother you?



Yep, you should know the best that talk is cheap ... you're the king of that.



1) the target price is 1M Yen how many USD would that mean in 2010 is not Pentax's problem;
2) again and again you judge comparatively the prices in the US. Not a bad thing for you but unreal for the most of us from Europe, Asia, Australia and the rest of the world. C, N and in a lesser degree S have significantly lower gear prices for the US market than the Europe (VAT excluded);
3) you can also buy a car or 50 point and shots or whatever with 1M Yen but this has as little relevance as your reasoning. It's about the same as comparing how many K20Ds can you buy for the price of a FF camera. The whole point is IF YOU NEED WHAT YOUR MONEY WILL BUY ABOVE THE OTHER LESSER OFFER (RESOLUTION, DR FOR EXAMPLE) AND DON'T MIND THE DRAWBACKS (LESS PORTABLE, PROBABLY MUCH SLOWER) OR DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FINANCIAL ASPECT YOU HAVE THE CHOICE. For a guy who bolsters his FF cameras on a multi-daily basis I thought you understood at least that;
4) Again the price is not 10K USD
5) Well WE WILL continue to get some "cool looking colored plastic aps-c dslr limited editions" and my bet is that you'll continue to get C and N gear at bargain prices.

Radu
03-27-2009, 06:50 AM   #14
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So what if it takes time? Are we little kids who want everything right now, without delay? Feverish consumer madness seems really to be a big problem in these circles as well. This kind of 'me first, everything right now' thinking is what plagues the world in general. Also very tiring to read this constant bitching and moaning from the same people. Leave Pentax if you can't wait, BUT STOP THE BITCHING AND MOANING, PLEASE.
03-27-2009, 07:02 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
As usual we Pentaxians get to debate Pentax' product promises instead of Pentax products they offer for sale today. Its March 27th 2009. Only Time will tell when 645D actually launches, you know after the date Pentax offers it for sale, it gets reviewed, someone here buys one (Maybe~You?) and shows off their manipulated or unmanipulated images captured with it. I'll debate this 645D with you then. IN THE MEANTIME, Be well, may the next 18-20 months be kind to you while you Wait & Eagerly Debate with others this overdue to market, unissued, unspec'd & unpriced 645D.
You're problems start when you venture away from things you really know such as finding the best bargain possible. Or writing in 250 separate posts what and when you bought and for how much (little?) money and what joy that brought to you seeing that now the same items are more expensive. In your half page post full of things ranging from half truths to pure nonsense or plain b.s. you made a series of presumptions about this "overdue to market, unissued, unspec'd & unpriced 645D". Of course when I corrected you with some facts you're only response was a condescend one which stated that is bad to do whatever you just did an hour ago. Well, in fact is bad for me to talk about what you talked a hour ago to be more precise. And the reason you and me cannot talk about modern, state of the art for our (???) brand "products they offer for sale today" is very simple. Besides the K20D which was an unfortunate victim of your bargain hunting skills you have none.

Now please can you do a thing you're qualified for such as crunch some rebates?
Radu
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