"Samsung to Boost Pentax Partnership"

whatever7 · 04-04-2009, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by OregonJim

This is rather a misleading question, as there are only two of them on the market and they are first generation products. There's no way to tell what compromises will be made when this feature reaches maturity.

Already, though, I would argue that the "compromise" is that HD video is taking away time, money, and other resources from the R&D teams that would be better spent improving the features that a DSLR is primarily used for - e.g. better high ISO performance, longer battery life, better AF, etc.

I understand the need to stay competitive in the marketplace, but Confused is right - the history of dual-purpose devices proves that they are never as good as the single-purpose devices they were intended to replace (look at cell phone cameras, PDAs with built-in video players, or camcorders that claim to take good stills)...

This argument doesn't work until you can prove camera phone has worse voice quality than camera-less phone. And you can't.

OregonJim · 04-04-2009, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by whatever7

This argument doesn't work until you can prove camera phone has worse voice quality than camera-less phone. And you can't.

They ALL have bad voice quality, and perhaps would be better if the manufacturer spent more time on the transceiver quality than cramming in a toy camera...

lesmore49 · 04-04-2009, 05:34 PM

A couple of years ago I was hoping that electronics giant Samsung would buy Pentax...I'm still hoping tht will be the case.

Money...real money and the electronic technology Samsung has to offer .

Confused · 04-04-2009, 05:38 PM

Hi nosnoop

Re your comment:

Quote:

I totally do not understand this type of irrational fear.

I'm not altogether sure how you arrived at the erroneous conclusion that I've mysteriously developed a luddite phobia concerning new technology. Perhaps you'd be happier if I decided to dispose of all my DSLR gear entirely and went back to using an original Box Brownie ?

However, you were partially correct when you said:

Quote:

You may dislike the fact that you are paying for something that you may not use.

As for your second point:

Quote:

Has any current DSLR with HD movie function been compromised in its photographic function ?

I believe OregonJim's answer summed up my sentiments perfectly, when he said:

Quote:

Already, though, I would argue that the "compromise" is that HD video is taking away time, money, and other resources from the R&D teams that would be better spent improving the features that a DSLR is primarily used for.

This type of typical feature-creep is beloved of the automotive industry, where all manner of useless bells & whistles are added to a vehicle's specification, in order to add perceived value. Ask yourself, would your life really be incomplete without that must-have heated steering wheel option ? It's just that I can't help feeling that the same kind of disease is rapidly spreading in our direction, whether we really want it or not.

....and finally in reply to lesmore49

Quote:

A couple of years ago I was hoping that electronics giant Samsung would buy Pentax...I'm still hoping that will be the case.

Trust me on this one, for numerous deep-seated cultural & historic reasons, a Japanese company would NEVER allow itself to be taken over by a Korean corporation. Hell would have to well and truly have frozen over before that ever happened.......Period !

Best regards
Richard

Last edited by Confused; 04-04-2009 at 05:57 PM.

**monochrome** · 04-04-2009, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by davebris33

Ok, This is not a specific dig at Confused, but at a general trend on forum, which really irritates me!

Why can't people type the words Canon or Nikon? Why do we have C***N and N***N or even worse the derogatory canikon that suggests that all people who do not buy Pentax are sheep, ill informed and stupid?

This is not blinking Harry flipping Potter, where saying 'Voldemort' out loud is bad luck on you and your family!

It's just cameras guys! I love Pentax, and bought for very specific reasons, mostly being build and legacy and the fun that can be had with that...but come on, lumps of plastic silicon and metal are just that, and they all do pretty similar things and they do them well. Lets grow up and stop being so obsessive, its just becoming hard to read the forum...

Ok, rant over, sorry to attach it to you Confused, it's certainly not personal, I just had a bit of a head fit!

:-)

BFD - if people want to have a little fun (its really a dig at DPReview) and type C***n or N***n or Canikon or the-brand-that shall-not-be-named, fine, let 'em type.

C***n
N***N
Canikon

C***n
N***N
Canikon

C***n
N***N
Canikon

My brain has already learned what those symbols stand for and reads them as Canon, Nikon and big-consumer-camera-brands, anyway.

And, oh, by the way, I'm all grown up, thank you very much.

poco · 04-04-2009, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Sean Nelson

If it boosts sales and doesn't add to the cost, what's the harm?

Weight and SR efficiency are inversely proportional. Cooling the sensor adds weight. A less efficient SR will consume more power whether you use the video feature, or not. It will, as well, provide less optimized stabilization. Are you willing to lose a stop of SR?

You have to wonder what the cost of live view was to SR in the K20D? I have to think the three minute limit on live view was a compromise to adding too much weight to the sensor.

This may also be the reason the NX was shown with optical stabilized lenses. Video in a Canon, sure. Video in a Pentax, I wonder?

poco · 04-04-2009, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by nosnoop

Has any current DSLR with HD movie function been compromised in its photographic function? Not at all.

Do any of the current DSLR bodies with video have in body stabilization? I think that is the issue as far as Pentax bodies go.

Steelski · 04-05-2009, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by ewalk

i'm interested in the image processing chips - it's been the same one since the k10d.

any chance for a PRIME II??

good to hear that the partnership is still continuing.

It will be called the Optimus Prime, Feature massive tires for running over humons and a great big gun for blowing up decepticons.

thibs · 04-05-2009, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by lesmore49

A couple of years ago I was hoping that electronics giant Samsung would buy Pentax...I'm still hoping tht will be the case.

Money...real money and the electronic technology Samsung has to offer .

And DSLR knowledge which Samsung has about none at all.

lesmore49 · 04-05-2009, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by thibs

And DSLR knowledge which Samsung has about none at all.

Hoya does ? They have expertise in lens making...but making a DSLR ? No more than Samsung.

The real money and electronics technology is what I said...nothing about DSLR knowledge....that's the advantage...we're already seeing the Samsung electronic technology with the 14 something MO sensor in the K20D and although I don't have the financial worth of Hoya and Samsung at my fingertips, I would bet that Samsung is in much better financial shape.

Samsungian · 04-05-2009, 01:40 PM

I think April 24th Panasonic GH1 will launch bundled with their new HD lens. New lens boasts Silent af, silent image stabilization, so they say. We'll see in 3 weeks.

Originally posted by poco

Do any of the current DSLR bodies with video have in body stabilization? I think that is the issue as far as Pentax bodies go.

poco · 04-05-2009, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

I think April 24th Panasonic GH1 will launch bundled with their new HD lens. New lens boasts Silent af, silent image stabilization, so they say. We'll see in 3 weeks.

It is In-lens Optical Image Stabilization only, according to the specifications on DPR. Same as the G1.

Samsungian · 04-05-2009, 02:30 PM

Pentax inbody shake reduction, Sony inbody shake reduction, both have an advantage making most any lens stabilized. Sony even stabilizes their full frame A900 too.

However, I do own a 300mm 2.8 Tamron adaptall that is too big for K20D to stabilize. I get sharper images with SR turned off. So the idea that pentax stabilizes big glass is not accurate, at least for me.

So, does the first generation video function in K20D stabilize image in video record mode?

Originally posted by poco

It is In-lens Optical Image Stabilization only, according to the specifications on DPR. Same as the G1.

OregonJim · 04-05-2009, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

So, does the first generation video function in K20D stabilize image in video record mode?

Huh? K20D? What "video record" mode?

creampuff · 04-05-2009, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

Pentax inbody shake reduction, Sony inbody shake reduction, both have an advantage making most any lens stabilized. Sony even stabilizes their full frame A900 too.

However, I do own a 300mm 2.8 Tamron adaptall that is too big for K20D to stabilize. I get sharper images with SR turned off. So the idea that pentax stabilizes big glass is not accurate, at least for me.

Your assertions are meaningless without pictures to back up what you claim... please post some pictures with the exif intact to show that the SR doesn't work. I've used and owned a Sigma 400mm and SR works perfectly on my Pentax.

Originally posted by Samsungian

So, does the first generation video function in K20D stabilize image in video record mode?

The fact you can come up with this statement seriously calls into doubt that you even own a K20D...

04-05-2009, 01:40 PM	#41
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Soon.. G1 HD or as currently branded GH1 will shoot Image Stabilized video I think April 24th Panasonic GH1 will launch bundled with their new HD lens. New lens boasts Silent af, silent image stabilization, so they say. We'll see in 3 weeks. Originally posted by poco Do any of the current DSLR bodies with video have in body stabilization? I think that is the issue as far as Pentax bodies go.

04-05-2009, 02:30 PM	#43
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	K20D Shake Reduction function usable in video clip mode? Pentax inbody shake reduction, Sony inbody shake reduction, both have an advantage making most any lens stabilized. Sony even stabilizes their full frame A900 too. However, I do own a 300mm 2.8 Tamron adaptall that is too big for K20D to stabilize. I get sharper images with SR turned off. So the idea that pentax stabilizes big glass is not accurate, at least for me. So, does the first generation video function in K20D stabilize image in video record mode? Originally posted by poco It is In-lens Optical Image Stabilization only, according to the specifications on DPR. Same as the G1.

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04-04-2009, 11:16 AM	#31
whatever7 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 278	Originally posted by OregonJim This is rather a misleading question, as there are only two of them on the market and they are first generation products. There's no way to tell what compromises will be made when this feature reaches maturity. Already, though, I would argue that the "compromise" is that HD video is taking away time, money, and other resources from the R&D teams that would be better spent improving the features that a DSLR is primarily used for - e.g. better high ISO performance, longer battery life, better AF, etc. I understand the need to stay competitive in the marketplace, but Confused is right - the history of dual-purpose devices proves that they are never as good as the single-purpose devices they were intended to replace (look at cell phone cameras, PDAs with built-in video players, or camcorders that claim to take good stills)... This argument doesn't work until you can prove camera phone has worse voice quality than camera-less phone. And you can't.

04-04-2009, 11:40 AM	#32
OregonJim Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon Posts: 1,327	Originally posted by whatever7 This argument doesn't work until you can prove camera phone has worse voice quality than camera-less phone. And you can't. They ALL have bad voice quality, and perhaps would be better if the manufacturer spent more time on the transceiver quality than cramming in a toy camera...

04-04-2009, 05:34 PM	#33
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,349	A couple of years ago I was hoping that electronics giant Samsung would buy Pentax...I'm still hoping tht will be the case. Money...real money and the electronic technology Samsung has to offer .

04-04-2009, 05:38 PM	#34
Confused Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London Posts: 1,067	Hi nosnoop Re your comment: Quote: I totally do not understand this type of irrational fear. I'm not altogether sure how you arrived at the erroneous conclusion that I've mysteriously developed a luddite phobia concerning new technology. Perhaps you'd be happier if I decided to dispose of all my DSLR gear entirely and went back to using an original Box Brownie ? However, you were partially correct when you said: Quote: You may dislike the fact that you are paying for something that you may not use. As for your second point: Quote: Has any current DSLR with HD movie function been compromised in its photographic function ? I believe OregonJim's answer summed up my sentiments perfectly, when he said: Quote: Already, though, I would argue that the "compromise" is that HD video is taking away time, money, and other resources from the R&D teams that would be better spent improving the features that a DSLR is primarily used for. This type of typical feature-creep is beloved of the automotive industry, where all manner of useless bells & whistles are added to a vehicle's specification, in order to add perceived value. Ask yourself, would your life really be incomplete without that must-have heated steering wheel option ? It's just that I can't help feeling that the same kind of disease is rapidly spreading in our direction, whether we really want it or not. ....and finally in reply to lesmore49 Quote: A couple of years ago I was hoping that electronics giant Samsung would buy Pentax...I'm still hoping that will be the case. Trust me on this one, for numerous deep-seated cultural & historic reasons, a Japanese company would NEVER allow itself to be taken over by a Korean corporation. Hell would have to well and truly have frozen over before that ever happened.......Period ! Best regards Richard Last edited by Confused; 04-04-2009 at 05:57 PM.

04-04-2009, 05:43 PM	#35
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by davebris33 Ok, This is not a specific dig at Confused, but at a general trend on forum, which really irritates me! Why can't people type the words Canon or Nikon? Why do we have C*N and NN or even worse the derogatory canikon that suggests that all people who do not buy Pentax are sheep, ill informed and stupid? This is not blinking Harry flipping Potter, where saying 'Voldemort' out loud is bad luck on you and your family! It's just cameras guys! I love Pentax, and bought for very specific reasons, mostly being build and legacy and the fun that can be had with that...but come on, lumps of plastic silicon and metal are just that, and they all do pretty similar things and they do them well. Lets grow up and stop being so obsessive, its just becoming hard to read the forum... Ok, rant over, sorry to attach it to you Confused, it's certainly not personal, I just had a bit of a head fit! :-) BFD - if people want to have a little fun (its really a dig at DPReview) and type Cn or Nn or Canikon or the-brand-that shall-not-be-named, fine, let 'em type. Cn NN Canikon Cn NN Canikon Cn N*N Canikon My brain has already learned what those symbols stand for and reads them as Canon, Nikon and big-consumer-camera-brands, anyway. And, oh, by the way, I'm all grown up, thank you very much.

04-04-2009, 10:00 PM	#36
poco Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 153	Originally posted by Sean Nelson If it boosts sales and doesn't add to the cost, what's the harm? Weight and SR efficiency are inversely proportional. Cooling the sensor adds weight. A less efficient SR will consume more power whether you use the video feature, or not. It will, as well, provide less optimized stabilization. Are you willing to lose a stop of SR? You have to wonder what the cost of live view was to SR in the K20D? I have to think the three minute limit on live view was a compromise to adding too much weight to the sensor. This may also be the reason the NX was shown with optical stabilized lenses. Video in a Canon, sure. Video in a Pentax, I wonder?

04-04-2009, 10:05 PM	#37
poco Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 153	Originally posted by nosnoop Has any current DSLR with HD movie function been compromised in its photographic function? Not at all. Do any of the current DSLR bodies with video have in body stabilization? I think that is the issue as far as Pentax bodies go.

04-05-2009, 06:15 AM	#38
Steelski Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Varna Posts: 470	Originally posted by ewalk i'm interested in the image processing chips - it's been the same one since the k10d. any chance for a PRIME II?? good to hear that the partnership is still continuing. It will be called the Optimus Prime, Feature massive tires for running over humons and a great big gun for blowing up decepticons.

04-05-2009, 08:57 AM	#39
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by lesmore49 A couple of years ago I was hoping that electronics giant Samsung would buy Pentax...I'm still hoping tht will be the case. Money...real money and the electronic technology Samsung has to offer . And DSLR knowledge which Samsung has about none at all.

04-05-2009, 12:46 PM	#40
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,349	Originally posted by thibs And DSLR knowledge which Samsung has about none at all. Hoya does ? They have expertise in lens making...but making a DSLR ? No more than Samsung. The real money and electronics technology is what I said...nothing about DSLR knowledge....that's the advantage...we're already seeing the Samsung electronic technology with the 14 something MO sensor in the K20D and although I don't have the financial worth of Hoya and Samsung at my fingertips, I would bet that Samsung is in much better financial shape.

04-05-2009, 02:14 PM	#42
poco Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 153	Originally posted by Samsungian I think April 24th Panasonic GH1 will launch bundled with their new HD lens. New lens boasts Silent af, silent image stabilization, so they say. We'll see in 3 weeks. It is In-lens Optical Image Stabilization only, according to the specifications on DPR. Same as the G1.

04-05-2009, 05:53 PM	#44
OregonJim Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon Posts: 1,327	Originally posted by Samsungian So, does the first generation video function in K20D stabilize image in video record mode? Huh? K20D? What "video record" mode?

04-05-2009, 06:00 PM	#45
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by Samsungian Pentax inbody shake reduction, Sony inbody shake reduction, both have an advantage making most any lens stabilized. Sony even stabilizes their full frame A900 too. However, I do own a 300mm 2.8 Tamron adaptall that is too big for K20D to stabilize. I get sharper images with SR turned off. So the idea that pentax stabilizes big glass is not accurate, at least for me. Your assertions are meaningless without pictures to back up what you claim... please post some pictures with the exif intact to show that the SR doesn't work. I've used and owned a Sigma 400mm and SR works perfectly on my Pentax. Originally posted by Samsungian So, does the first generation video function in K20D stabilize image in video record mode? The fact you can come up with this statement seriously calls into doubt that you even own a K20D...