[Samsungian]

So my Tamron Adaptall 300 2.8 weighs 5 pounds. Whats the speed of your Sigma 400mm your handholding with shake reduction? f2.8? Are you handholding a 13 pound lens and finding SR effective? I highly doubt it.

I've also got a 400mm SMC-A f4.5 and K20D SR works fine with it. But its a 2.75 pound lens. Whereas 5 pounds is too much weight for K20D to stabilize. Go Buy a 300mm 2.8 for your K20D and let me know how it works for you, OK?


Burst shooting mode OR video mode ? whatever...

I've never bothered with it but on page 119 it says K20D shoots "21 frames per second at 1.4mp". If this isn't a video clip mode then call it a "burst shooting" as pentax does.

whats the point of shooting 21 frames per second in a tiny 1.4 mp mode?

and I'll ask again, anyone use SR in "burst shooting" mode?

Your assertions are meaningless without pictures to back up what you claim... please post some pictures with the exif intact to show that the SR doesn't work. I've used and owned a Sigma 400mm and SR works perfectly on my Pentax.





The fact you can come up with this statement seriously calls into doubt that you even own a K20D...

[creampuff]

I get sharper images with SR turned off. So the idea that pentax stabilizes big glass is not accurate, at least for me.

This sounds too unbelievable. In the absence of any concrete proof from you I'd have to call this false nonsense.

I've also got a 400mm SMC-A f4.5 and K20D SR works fine with it. But its a 2.75 pound lens. Whereas 5 pounds is too much weight for K20D to stabilize.

Well you've just proven it has nothing to do with the camera but merely a reflection of your inability to handhold a heavy lens.

Everyone's threshold to shoot handheld will differ depending on the focal length in question, light conditions and personal ability. But to say SR doesn't work is rubbish. Use a long tele without the use of a tripod or a monopod to support the weight of the lens is a recipe for NOT getting sharp images. Long teles have a tripod socket for a reason. It would be a challenge for anyone to get good results shooting handheld with a heavy lens.

Here are my images with the Sigma 400mm f/5.6 from a previous Pentax outing. The exif is intact.





So where are your pictures? Show me a shot from that Tamron 300mm or that Pentax 400mm.
Prove to everyone here on Pentaxforums with some images from the long list of gear of different brands that you like to talk about.

[Samsungian]

Maybe these two images will prove to YOU I own K20D and the Nikon starter kit I built this year? Their K20D metadata should be intact.

So far I like ISO 1600 on K20D. Maybe I got a good example without the reported banding? Works fine for me, I'm happy with K20D, as I've said before:

Best way I know of to use K Mount lenses is a K20D. I really wonder why more Pentaxians don't own a K20D yet? Its been 14&1/2 months since it launched. The lens I used is 50mm SMC-A with shake reduction switched on. The full size images are sharp, details are lost in dropping to 800 dpi wide.

So Do You think I own a K20D or not creampuff? If so, now please tell me what the 21 frame per second burst shooting mode on K20D is for? Is it designed to create a "video"?









And two more pix, possible proof I need to provide to you I own a 300mm 2.8 Tamron, mounted on it Pentax mf > af function 1.7x and last pic Tamron 200-500mm 5.6 and one of my favorite pentax assessories : Monocular K








Last question:

How is my ability to handhold a 300mm 2.8 with shake reduction turned off prove I cannot hand hold a 300mm 2.8? With it switched on I get blurry shots, SR turned off its all good. Now being that I am 6'4" & 250 pounds maybe provides me a better platform to shoot from?


>>>>Hey this is fun, you know proving to you creampuff that I own equiptment I say I do.

Here's one I called:

Oh I could'a Bought a M8.

Indeed a Leica M8 bodyonly bought new at same point in time would have ran the same money as all this canon gear cost me brand new:



Gear included: USM 70-200mm 2.8 IS & USM 16-35mm 2.8 II & 100mm 2.8 USM Macro & 1.4x II TC & Canon's best programable shutter release & Canon 5D Full Frame DSLR & a High speed lens focusing screen & a few spare caps: Two 77mm, One 82mm, Two rear caps. All items boldy marked "Canon Made In Japan, even the lens caps.



One Last Photoproof I own 400mm 5.6 SMC-A? I bet I never mentioned it but I also own all but one Pentax Teleconverters too huh? I dug thru my gear shots I have onhand for insurance purposes and got a nice image of it/them for you? Oh, I used to own takumar tc-6 I think its called, but it was poop, so its gone now. I do own alot more gear than this, maybe I won't have to prove this fact further to you creampuff?



Good Night Creampuff

Your assertions are meaningless without pictures to back up what you claim... please post some pictures with the exif intact to show that the SR doesn't work. I've used and owned a Sigma 400mm and SR works perfectly on my Pentax.



The fact you can come up with this statement seriously calls into doubt that you even own a K20D...

[creampuff]

Finally, at long last some pictures... you are indeed a gear collector of the highest caliber.
A little white balance adjustment would make the pictures nicer.
... you could use the burst mode for creating animated gifs for a start,
anyway nobody is calling it "video"

Perhaps you need to input the focal length for SR to work with that Tamron.

---

Last edited by creampuff; 04-05-2009 at 09:20 PM.

[OregonJim]

Samsungian -

Pentax, Nikon, AND Canon systems? Why all three? Seems like an awful waste to duplicate glass like that...

[Samsungian]

...but then I bought a K20D brand new for $689 last November before i cashed out of Pentax and then decided to keep the K Mount stuff I've acquired last 6 years. I like K20D, no doubt. K20D is a great way to deploy pentax & pentax mount glass, atleast its best way I know of. I still find it odd I am one of the few people here that actually own Pentax Best Dslr


Anyways the gear parade was really for creampuff. I got tired of being doubted.


Oh well I should change my handle from "Samsungian" to "Canikontaxian"

Samsungian -

Pentax, Nikon, AND Canon systems? Why all three? Seems like an awful waste to duplicate glass like that...

[Philippos]

I decided to reply to this thread when I read the original post that started it, but after reading all the posts in the four pages, I completely forgot what it was all about.
Samsung and Pentax, C***n and N***n, Video or not Video, SR or not SR...
I actually had to go back to page one and re-read the OP.
(Not that I don't like it this way, it's like a conversation in a cafeteria: you begin with the weather, and you end up cursing each other for politics or sports - Nice )

My dad had full manual Pentax SLRs when I first bought my Nikon F801s (N8008s for the Americas), and he was very dissapointed that everything was automatic. He compared the Nikon to the 110mm box-cameras that had nothing but a shutter button on. What he was trying to say, was that in his mind, all this automation took the fun away from taking photos. He hasn't changed his mind yet, still using his K1000 and feeling sorry for me and my brother with all this digital gear.

My point is that no matter what we think now, shooting video with a DSLR is something that will become standard for two reasons. First because it's possible and second because it's usable. I have two HD video cameras, and I wouldn't mind my K20D being able to shoot HD as well - although I really doudt the current SD format is capable of handling decent HD video data rates.
Convergence is happening all over, in every aspect of our lives - I am writing this in my HTPC using my HD-TV (Samsung BTW) as a monitor, sitting comfortably on my couch. I wouldn't have dreamed of something like this when I bought my first ZX Spectrum in 1983.

As far as Samsung as a player, well, I am deeply concerned. Samsung is a money-making firm that focuses mostly on this (money-making) and not on innovation or real pioneering. It is not a trend-maker and it always follows the safe way (God knows how I wish Samsung had bought Commodore in 1994, keeping the Amiga alive, but it didn't just out of fear). In my mind Samsung is a good technology provider, but if it eventually absorbs Pentax, I really believe it will change it so much, it will not be Pentax anymore.

[vinzer]

...but then I bought a K20D brand new for $689 last November before i cashed out of Pentax and then decided to keep the K Mount stuff I've acquired last 6 years. I like K20D, no doubt. K20D is a great way to deploy pentax & pentax mount glass, atleast its best way I know of. I still find it odd I am one of the few people here that actually own Pentax Best Dslr


Anyways the gear parade was really for creampuff. I got tired of being doubted.


Oh well I should change my handle from "Samsungian" to "Canikontaxian"

That's some serious gear you own there, friend. Wish I had the financial werewithal to be able to afford Nikon/Sony FF to run alongside my Pentax kit. Maybe someday when prices tumble.

I'm not as enamored with Canon's recent forays, though.

I decided to reply to this thread when I read the original post that started it, but after reading all the posts in the four pages, I completely forgot what it was all about.
Samsung and Pentax, C***n and N***n, Video or not Video, SR or not SR...
I actually had to go back to page one and re-read the OP.
(Not that I don't like it this way, it's like a conversation in a cafeteria: you begin with the weather, and you end up cursing each other for politics or sports - Nice )

My dad had full manual Pentax SLRs when I first bought my Nikon F801s (N8008s for the Americas), and he was very dissapointed that everything was automatic. He compared the Nikon to the 110mm box-cameras that had nothing but a shutter button on. What he was trying to say, was that in his mind, all this automation took the fun away from taking photos. He hasn't changed his mind yet, still using his K1000 and feeling sorry for me and my brother with all this digital gear.

My point is that no matter what we think now, shooting video with a DSLR is something that will become standard for two reasons. First because it's possible and second because it's usable. I have two HD video cameras, and I wouldn't mind my K20D being able to shoot HD as well - although I really doudt the current SD format is capable of handling decent HD video data rates.
Convergence is happening all over, in every aspect of our lives - I am writing this in my HTPC using my HD-TV (Samsung BTW) as a monitor, sitting comfortably on my couch. I wouldn't have dreamed of something like this when I bought my first ZX Spectrum in 1983.

As far as Samsung as a player, well, I am deeply concerned. Samsung is a money-making firm that focuses mostly on this (money-making) and not on innovation or real pioneering. It is not a trend-maker and it always follows the safe way (God knows how I wish Samsung had bought Commodore in 1994, keeping the Amiga alive, but it didn't just out of fear). In my mind Samsung is a good technology provider, but if it eventually absorbs Pentax, I really believe it will change it so much, it will not be Pentax anymore.

If today's Pentax is now focused on higher price margins and obscene prices, I wouldn't mind Samsung taking over and see what they make of it. At least their other products seem price-competitive. We'll see.

[thibs]

If today's Pentax is now focused on higher price margins and obscene prices, I wouldn't mind Samsung taking over and see what they make of it. At least their other products seem price-competitive. We'll see.

Obscene prices? In Canada I agree it's ridiculous. But in other countries Pentax isn't even touching prices of other brands.

That's the problem with man Pentax users, they want the best glasses, the best bodies and moan like kids when they're asked to pay a price which isn't 20 to 70% less than competitors.

[junyo]

Pentax inbody shake reduction, Sony inbody shake reduction, both have an advantage making most any lens stabilized. Sony even stabilizes their full frame A900 too.

However, I do own a 300mm 2.8 Tamron adaptall that is too big for K20D to stabilize. I get sharper images with SR turned off. So the idea that pentax stabilizes big glass is not accurate, at least for me.

Big, heavy tends to be more stable; i.e. a 5 lb 400mm lens will tend to be steadier than a 4 lb 400mm lens. Inertia and mass; the more mass an object has the harder it is to set it in motion or to alter the direction of that motion. This effectively damps movement, making it steadier. SR should usually be better with big glass than smaller, lighter optics. I don't have a 5 lb 400mm, but I do use a 3 lb Tamron 70-200 2.8 on a K10, and I can regularly take it down 3-3.5 stops (1/30, 1/20 sec) and get good results. Of course, size and/or balance of the lens probably play a huge factor as well, potentially worsening or improving the situation. Not disputing your experience, just adding a data point.

[kent vinyard]

Samsungian,
Thats an impressive bunch of gear that you have. Just curious about the nikkor 300 f2.8 you have. Is it autofocus? It looks like one of the early af nikkor lenses and I wondering about the focus speed with the D700. How do you like it? I switched to nikon about 8 months ago and just couldn't afford to keep my pentax gear. I needed the focus tracking speed for sports stuff that I shoot. Bought a D300 and several lenses. BTW the A*400 in your picture isn't it f5.6 and not 4.5? Wish all of these people would quit arguing about equipment and keep on shooting pictures. Ha! Don't post here much any more-no one wants to see wildlfe photographed with nikon anyway. Hang in there.

[vinzer]

Obscene prices? In Canada I agree it's ridiculous. But in other countries Pentax isn't even touching prices of other brands.

That's the problem with man Pentax users, they want the best glasses, the best bodies and moan like kids when they're asked to pay a price which isn't 20 to 70% less than competitors.

Well, in my neck of the woods, the going price for a K20D body-only is still at $1000. I saved $300 by having a friend get one for me from the US. The D90 is sitting at $950. Granted, the 50D is sitting at $80 higher ($1080), but people would think they're paying a mere $80 for a better live-view implementation and a boosted ISO range (plus the well-known Canon name).

As for lenses, even looking at the standard telephoto kit lens, Pentax's 50-200 is at $290, while the Nikon version is coming in at $230 and Canon's is at $240, with an extra 50mm range over Nikon and Pentax.

It would be nice if I were seeing the same prices you and the US folk do, but Pentax marketing do differ around the world.

[Samsungian]

The 300mm 2.8 I have is last version of manual focus. They call it a "N", has closer focus and does not take 122mm front filters. Protector filter is built in and not threaded. i think design wise its identical to first nikon 300mm 2.8 AF lens. One whose af performance is said to be poor. Mine is a pretty amazing lens but not autofocus. I usually shoot in Yellowstone and Grand Tetons National Parks and animals I track are slow and like to pose ;^) Both the old TC's work perfect with it.

I did however handle a second generation 300mm 2.8 autofocus locally a couple weeks ago. It was "AF-I". It was pretty soft as opposed to the old nikon I have. Focus was pretty fast though, but if it misses whats the point? It was like new, maybe it needed an adjustment? I know Nikon USA is pesky inthat they do not perform repairs or supply parts on grey market lenses. So I really limit myself to brand new usa market stuff from them. Unless its old, like 300mm 2.8 manual focus or the 85mm 1.4 or 8mm circular fisheye. I got a good guy locally that can dial in any old AiS, Ai and Non Ai all the way back to 1959 F Mount glass. Of course with non ai I cannot use it on D700, but with 5D or any eos film camera or any other eos dslr this glass is no problem. Simply put camera on AV mode and it auto meters without electric signals. Adjust aperture, focus or visa vera and shoot. My 300mm 2.8 is INSANELY SHARP wide open so that removes the metering step for alot of my uses. Thats why Canon had the edge prior to Nikon offering full frame dslrs. Lots of old nikon glass owners migrated to eos to use their old glass. Now with D700, an affordable and virtually pro-spec full frame the reverse migration already begun. If D700 had dual card slots instead of one card slot I'd call it probody. Other than that its easily the best built camera I've ever owned.

Once I kept pentax equiptment with K20D purchase to go along with 5D & its glass it seemed a no brainer to add D700 to my imaging kit when I saw the nikon price increase tidal wave on the horizion. I REALLY WANTED THE 14-24MM 2.8 AND D700 seemed best way for me to drive it and its autofocus function & capture entire metadata. Plus I'd always been curious about Nikon, I've considered & passed on several Nikon film bodies ovet the last 15 years. D700 is my first nikon camera, but I've used Nikon lenses on Canon FD: "F-1" bodies for over 15 years. Canon FD era, really Canon FL mount era offered an adapter for nikon mount glass in 1969. I figured if Nikon mount was good enough for Canon 40 years ago I'd look into it.

Long story short, try to buy any used nikon autofocus lenses locally so you can test drive them or have bullet proof return. The pro autofocus supertelephoto f2.8 glass is cheaper to buy in Japan and ship, but if you gotta a problem and thats where Nikon USA will state the repairs will likely be required. You cannot find this out until you ship it to NJ or California and they return it and tell you where to send it. Heck it could have to go to Middle East. Nikon is real pesky concerning non USA market lenses and cameras too.

And to respect this Samsung topic/thread at hand, & why I call myself Samsungian, I present my two Pentax DS2 aka Samsung GX-1S 6mp CCD identical clone dslrs, my 1st two dslrs I ever owned & still own.

Samsungian,
Thats an impressive bunch of gear that you have. Just curious about the nikkor 300 f2.8 you have. Is it autofocus? It looks like one of the early af nikkor lenses and I wondering about the focus speed with the D700. How do you like it? I switched to nikon about 8 months ago and just couldn't afford to keep my pentax gear. I needed the focus tracking speed for sports stuff that I shoot. Bought a D300 and several lenses. BTW the A*400 in your picture isn't it f5.6 and not 4.5? Wish all of these people would quit arguing about equipment and keep on shooting pictures. Ha! Don't post here much any more-no one wants to see wildlfe photographed with nikon anyway. Hang in there.

[kent vinyard]

Samsungian,
Thanks for the comments. I appreciate you taking the time to answere me. I have the nikon afs 300f4.0 but I keep lusting after more speed (aka 2.8) Thanks again

[nanok]

Big, heavy tends to be more stable; i.e. a 5 lb 400mm lens will tend to be steadier than a 4 lb 400mm lens. Inertia and mass; the more mass an object has the harder it is to set it in motion or to alter the direction of that motion. This effectively damps movement, making it steadier. SR should usually be better with big glass than smaller, lighter optics. I don't have a 5 lb 400mm, but I do use a 3 lb Tamron 70-200 2.8 on a K10, and I can regularly take it down 3-3.5 stops (1/30, 1/20 sec) and get good results. Of course, size and/or balance of the lens probably play a huge factor as well, potentially worsening or improving the situation. Not disputing your experience, just adding a data point.

hmmm, your point is good, but only if you ignore the human being involved. i am about to figure it out myself, so don't flame me (just yet) :

if you go over a certain weight (which depends from person to person, as mentioned by someone above), the human being will struggle to hold the lens+body in position, and it will start to oscilate, tremble, and so on, which generates shake of a nature which is hard to counteract (high amplitude, low frequency). added to this is disconfort in other muscles all around (neck, back, sometimes legs, depending on the shooting position). so i guess what i am trying to say is, you are right, but only untill you come close to the limit of the particlar humans handholding ability.

in an unrelated sidenote: your first statement reminded me some immortal words: (boris, selling a (ridiculously) high caliber hand gun): "heavy is good, heavy is reliable. if it does not work, you can always hit him with it.."