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05-04-2009, 01:32 PM   #1831
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
As I already said, a metal house is strong enough, it’s all about the design. And again the K10/20 aren’t invulnerable even though they are made of some sort of plastic.
So, the strength point is not valid.

Metal is heavier, and I don’t mind it. On the contrary I don’t like those cheaper Canons that feels like empty shells.

Metal is colder in the winter, yes, that is a drawback.

Finely machined metal has a superior feel to it, period. Composite material never even comes close to that.

And that’s why I want metal, and the fossils found on earth are obviously dumped there by evil Martians.
if you get the design right, you can make it out of paper if you so desire, and it will be strong enough, that was not the point, nobody argued that metal is not strong enough. the point was that metal is ineffcient and unnecessary especially in this day and age. i understand your feelings about the finish of properly machined metal, but few cameras will display that (most will have the essential parts covered, including classic cameras, and for good reason), but most importantly: for me, when the finish of the camera becomes so important, it is were the line between me as a photographer and me as a collector lies. for now i am busy being a photographer, and i personally hope (and i am very happy so far) that pentax keeps making cameras for photographers, not collectibles, and in that respect, composite materials are functionally superior in every way (or close enough), these new pentax cameras never felt cheap or badly built to me, actually they feel great (yes, i have used classic slrs, i am not a digital kid ), the fact that the rebel line of canon feels like crap is canon's doing alone, nothing to do with the materials. i love my k20d, loved the k10d and k100d, and i want neither of them in magnesium alloy or whatever, thank you. and the rant could go on

ps: and we' re not evil, we just have a special sense of humour. got to go, mothership calls..

05-04-2009, 01:44 PM   #1832
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erik Quote
No, the 17-70 would not become a 22-87 mm lens. It would become an APS-C lens on a camera it was not designed for and -- best case scenario -- blur and vignette like crazy. The 17-70 is already very soft in the corners at 17mm, has 1.5 EV of light falloff in the corners open wide and some pretty bad distortion -- now imagine what this would look like on a bigger sensor! Allow me to quote the official Pentax marketing blurb on this lens: "The image circle is perfectly proportioned to a PENTAX camera's image-sensor size." I have not seen how this lens behaves on a full frame camera but it is pretty much a no-brainer to assume that on the wide end there will be black borders -- it would barely be any better on APS-H.

So yes, it would be nice if by some sort of black magic you could have a free 22-87 mm lens, but in reality that's not how it works. Pentax will never, ever release an APS-H camera.
Do DCR have an overview regarding the lenses that they have reviewed ?

QuoteOriginally posted by Erik Quote
Well, I did say "weather-sealed DA* and Limited" lines. I am fully aware the Limiteds aren't weather sealed, but they are built so well that I wouldn't think twice about taking them into some less than ideal conditions (though I would not pour water into a FA 77, if I had one.)

No one has posted reliable information about body material yet, as far as i know, but I'm pretty sure it will be sturdily built.

Anyway -- I still think this new body looks, more than the previous Pentax digital SLR's, like a "Limited" type design in that it has a certain "retro" flavour to it and has some premium features that photographers care about, like a good viewfinder (according to rumours, anyway). Pentax, with its Limiteds and "just hold a Pentax" campaigns, has always been the photographic enthusiast's camera, and I really see the feature set and design they've got going agreeing with that line of thinking.

I'm going off on tangents here, but I don't think the K-7 is going to be a "pro" camera, as such. I think it's going to be the kind of camera a pro uses on his days off, when he shoots for art or fun... Preferably with a 31 Limited or something attached to it.

Good point about the limiteds

Edit :
Actually, one image I was viewing, the user explained :
"Taken while hiking in the Columbia River Gorge (May 2008). Taken about 15 minutes after dropping my camera (K10D) and lens (DA40) under about 8 inches of fast flowing water... The lens contact points were wet and that is why the focal length is not indicated. However, the K10D continued and still continues to perform without any ill effects from the dunking!"



QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I'm still not convinced they've done that. The Olympus E-30 feels just as nice in my hand as the K20D does, and the D200/300/700 remind you real quick that the Pentax uses plastic shells. And all of them are so close in size that I don't see how a few mm's here or there make any difference to anyone.
I think there is a big difference in size between D300 and D700, compared to Pentax. Particularly when you equip them with lenses :



QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
Its speculation because it doesn't say AF assist light on it. I agree that it is likely an AF assist light but compared to the other aspects of the body, like the HDMI port and MIC input, its not a definate.

Correct me if I am wrong but this would be the first body Pentax has ever made with an AF assist light?

It probably is an AF assist light but I was trying to point out that 99% of what is said in this thread is unsubstantiated. I was being quite literal with my terms
The Z-1P had AF assist light as well. Worked fine, and I preferred it to white light from Canon SLRs. (Don't think I will use it on the K7)

QuoteOriginally posted by Mats Quote
Could be a body curve preventing your fingers to cover the AF Assist lamp?
I hope not, I want it covered


QuoteOriginally posted by Votesh Quote
Anyway, I kind of know what I'm doing now and what I'd like to do with photography in the near future. I don't need all these suggestions that I'm doing it wrong, or could do it another way, because none of the suggestions so far would actually help me get the photos I want. Unless the K7 has some new capabilities that completely dwarf those of my K10D I will probably be looking elsewhere for a new camera body. I love my Pentax camera and lenses, but not to the point of rejecting any other brand. I do this all primarily because its enjoyable for me, and I'm sure I can have fun using any brand.
I wasn't implying that you did anything wrong. I have just lately read up on Astro work, and just provided some input into the dialog.
For faster lenses, you could also consider the Sigma 24/1.8 or 20/1.8.

But I can easily understand if you consider a Eos 5D as well.

I would like to see your future work, am interested as well in this sort of photography. Again, didn't mean any critique of your skill. And then, I’ll let it lie as well, was just curious, also to see if I couldn‘t learn some new stuff as well.



QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Marketing, marketing, marketing. Without kick-ass ads and a poorer brand recognition in today's generation of kids, Canon and Nikon will most often be the choice of a prospective buyer.

Peer pressure (a lot of friends owning Canon/Nikon entry-level cameras) and doing the research in-store (where a lot of salespeople push Canon and Nikon) can also tweak the scales in favor of the big two brands.
Good point, I was very close at jumping a Nikon SLR in the film days, when in a store. But after doing reading, discovering that it wouldn't have been a good package.




QuoteOriginally posted by jay Quote
Full-frame has bigger, longer glass to get the same telephoto perspective as crop-frame -- while crop-frame has bigger, more expensive glass to get the same wide angle perspective as full-frame.

So, it depends what you shoot, I suppose.

But, I will say this -- the Tokina 11-17 f/2.8 is a gorgeous wide-angle lens, and I don't think many shooters would need to go much wider than that on APS-C.

Compare its weight and price tag to full-frame lenses of the same perspective, field-of-view and depth-of-field, and I think APS-C still wins out.
Good point regarding the 11-16/2.8. I think many are looking forward to the day that it might come in Pentax mount as well.

QuoteOriginally posted by jay Quote
It seems like you aren't trying to refute the fact that composite materials are stronger than most metal alloys. Yet, you still want a metal body? When composites are clearly a better choice, economically, environmentally, and structurally?
are composites a better choice environmentally ?


QuoteOriginally posted by Nubi Quote
I think smaller is still ok, but lighter i may have some issues with.
I think this is well stated. I like a compact dimension DSLR, to fit into a pack easily. But I don't mind as much the weight issue

QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
i shoot landscape, for most people thermal conductivity of the body might not mean much, but ofr me it does: i do not appreciate my hand freezing on the camera body in about 3 seconds. even worse, i am often away from power outlets in the mountains: shooting with a k100d, with the dreaded nimh acumulators, and having no trouble at all (in the winter), while my good friend with a canon 20d and liion was switching batteries every hour or so (at best), warming them in his gloves, and so on, maybe was funny for me, but was not for him. later on we met again, same story for him, and still no problems for me with the k20d. now the canon 20d might be old tech and power hungry, but three bateryes while i have only one (and in the case of the liion, it went on for days) is a bit hard to explain still. but when you think of how quickly that metal alloy body lets the heat out and brings everything in the camera to bellow zero, it starts to make sense.
very interesting. I also like to hike in the mountains as well. Need to look into the whole battery difference too.


Anyway regarding batteries, making them juicier will also make the actions of the camera faster. We'll see what comes


Edit :
We just rounded quarter of a million views on this thread

Well done PentaxForums !

Last edited by Jonson PL; 05-06-2009 at 03:54 AM.
05-04-2009, 02:11 PM   #1833
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
are composites a better choice environmentally ?
I wouldn't be surprised at all if by now there are composites that could be produced more environmantal friendly that yoo'd imagine. Some composites are also easier to recycly, maybe not into next cameras but there are many other appplications.
Also, the transport of lighter cameras uses less fuel. May not mean much on an individual camera but when shipped en masse from wherever they are made, who knows.

OTOH, if you are not carefull about the composite you may end up with a camera that burns even faster than a magnesium camera.
For example, I know from a training I had that the Apache helicopter is largely made from compisites (and they are green, remember?) and when they start to burn, they are gone in a couple of minutes, depending on where the fire starts even less than two!
05-04-2009, 02:17 PM   #1834
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[QUOTE=Caat;581795] Or that he saw someone using the camera without having to move his head away from the viewfinder etc etc etc etc ad nauseum.
QUOTE]
I think back then after the storm settled it was generally agreed that it must have been a film slr...

05-04-2009, 03:33 PM   #1835
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
We just rounded quarter of a million views on this thread
I think I'm probably personally responsible for about half of that.

Refresh! Refresh! Refresh!
05-04-2009, 04:01 PM   #1836
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
I think I'm probably personally responsible for about half of that.

Refresh! Refresh! Refresh!
refreshing doesn't increase page views....
05-04-2009, 04:13 PM   #1837
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Size difference

Wow, that D700 and 20D comparison pic sure says alot, I'm not sure I would enjoy lugging that monster around.
05-04-2009, 04:26 PM   #1838
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
I think there is a big difference in size between D300 and D700, compared to Pentax. Particularly when you equip them with lenses :
Eye opener. As much as I'd like a D700, the size, price and lack of SR are deal breakers. But the size in particular is just too much IMHO. The K20D+grip is already at the limit of weight and size. Just like cars, I prefer them small and efficients. That's why I think the K-7 is good news.

05-04-2009, 05:15 PM   #1839
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My first contribution on any of this speculation...

It's no good increasing FPS if the AF is the same speed as it is on K20D, I'll just end up with more out of focus frames. So even if the FPS is up, but the AF isn't, it won't interest me. (Yep, I'm part of the more FPS and faster AF crowd )
05-04-2009, 05:16 PM   #1840
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Actually, that's the hologram projector. If Princess Leia has a message for you, it shoots out of there.
She never calls anymore. I heard she found some guy named Luke and they've moved off to the other end of the galaxy. Far, far away.

QuoteOriginally posted by jay Quote
If Pentax goes with a plastic body, the terrorists have already won.
I think that maybe, just maybe, you're confusing issues here.
05-04-2009, 05:35 PM   #1841
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I hope the K-7 doesn't come with AF at all and you have to wind a lever to take the next picture.
05-04-2009, 07:42 PM   #1842
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
She never calls anymore. I heard she found some guy named Luke and they've moved off to the other end of the galaxy. Far, far away.



I think that maybe, just maybe, you're confusing issues here.

Dude!

Luke is just her brother you still have a chance!
05-04-2009, 09:49 PM   #1843
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AF NIKKOR 35mm f/2D

QuoteOriginally posted by omega leader Quote
Wow, that D700 and 20D comparison pic sure says alot, I'm not sure I would enjoy lugging that monster around.
now put some similar FF zoom lens on K20D (something like Sigma 24-135/2.8-4.5) and fixed lens on D700 (something like AF NIKKOR 35mm f/2D)... and FF D700 will not look that scary
05-04-2009, 10:07 PM   #1844
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
now put some similar FF zoom lens on K20D (something like Sigma 24-135/2.8-4.5) and fixed lens on D700 (something like AF NIKKOR 35mm f/2D)... and FF D700 will not look that scary
Exactly what I thought...

But hey, if people really want to think that a FF is necessarily a Godzilla machine... why bother?

FF is not inherently bigger than APS-C but Canon and Nikon cameras are generally bigger than Pentax ones.

Just do the same comparison pic with a D300 and a K20...

That's exactly why I would love to see a Pentax FF: it wouldn't look like a D700/D3 anymore than a K7 is going to look like a D300.
05-04-2009, 10:16 PM   #1845
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QuoteOriginally posted by omega leader Quote
Wow, that D700 and 20D comparison pic sure says alot, I'm not sure I would enjoy lugging that monster around.
And now do the same with an Olympus E3 compared to a K20 and come to the conclusion that 4/3 is bigger than APS-C too (and don't forget to put a 35-100f2 on the Olympus and a 40f2.8 on the Pentax to enforce your point) ...

Actually it doesn't say much more than Pentax cameras are more compact than Nikon ones...
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