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05-11-2009, 04:43 PM   #2311
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Can we perhaps postpone the worry part until the actual specs is out?
might as well close the thread now then. unless we're just allowed to speculate but not worry?

it's been posted multiple times by people who claim to have K-7 press materials that the AF system is still labeled 'SAFOX VIII'.

for many, including myself, the AF system is considered somewhat of a weakness for Pentax so....yeah:

05-11-2009, 05:00 PM   #2312
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erik Quote
Because you get 1920 vertical lines instead of 1280, probably. 1080i is actually higher resolution/more data per frame than 720p.
blah blah blah. 1080i is 540p x2. 1080i better for still images and 720p is much better for any moving subject. So if you plan on having all your movies static, then yes, 1080i better for you...
05-11-2009, 05:50 PM   #2313
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
might as well close the thread now then. unless we're just allowed to speculate but not worry?

it's been posted multiple times by people who claim to have K-7 press materials that the AF system is still labeled 'SAFOX VIII'.

for many, including myself, the AF system is considered somewhat of a weakness for Pentax so....yeah:
Many feel that the SAFOX system was fine on film cameras. Seems it didn't scale down well for whatever reason. I'm not sure all this is true though but anyways Pentax said they would work on it after the K20 and they probably did. First iteration was the Kd.
Personally companies tend to cover things up or over sensationalizing them (have you never questioned why it is funny when they say "new and improved, when a week ago they were telling you it was the best there is?) by "upscaling" the name, dis-proportionately to the real improvements...
do we really want to go back to stuff like this:
SAFOX IV/V can be splitted into:

SAFOX 4.0 = MZ-5/10/5N (new standard logic, H-sensor, standard motor)
SAFOX 5.0 = MZ-50 (new standard logic, I-sensor, standard motor)
SAFOX 4.1a = MZ-3 (new standard logic, H-sensor, energy saving motor)
SAFOX 4.1b = 645AF (new standard logic, H-sensor, stronger motor)
SAFOX 4.2 = MZ-7 (new enhanced logic, H-sensor, standard motor)

Pentax Auto Focus Systems
Let them call it what they want and let us see how it works. It would be silly to pass up a camera just because someone says "oh it's just the old SAFOX system" without seeing what it does..
Maybe it's really SAFOX VIIIf or g or z.........
Best quote from the website:
This might be possible, but the focussing screens of Z-1 and Z-1P
still show a similar AF frame. Since the Z-1P sensor has a better
light efficiency (I skipped this differences too, you will end up
with more SAFOX versions than cameras then)
I think, this also makes
it possible to change the magnification of the projecting lenses,
and enlarging the detection area this way is an option too.Basically
I think Pentax SAFOX versions are constantly updated due to the
available industry moduls for such purposes (CCD-sensors, chips, mini
motors and so on). There is a constant change and improvement of
details. But the general system nomenclature should follow the main
parts that Pentax develops themselves or changes actively in order to
incorporate new features (e.g. firmware, geometry/projection optics,
choice of CCD type, motor and gear dimensioning).

It is possible too that Pentax marketing tells different stories than
engineers would do.

Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-11-2009 at 05:56 PM.
05-11-2009, 05:52 PM   #2314
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QuoteOriginally posted by dave sz Quote
blah blah blah. 1080i is 540p x2. 1080i better for still images and 720p is much better for any moving subject. So if you plan on having all your movies static, then yes, 1080i better for you...
720p by default is not better for moving images, it is because there is a 720p60 format, if there was a 1080P60 then that would be better still.

05-11-2009, 07:31 PM   #2315
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Are we allowed to discuss anything during the wait?

Trend Pentax vs. Olympus for 2008

Flickr Trends

Red is Pentax ...
And this was before the K-7 rumors emerged ...
Stunning! And look how well Pentax is trending against Tulips (Pentax in blue):
Flickr Trends
05-11-2009, 07:37 PM   #2316
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
might as well close the thread now then. unless we're just allowed to speculate but not worry?
Don't Worry.... Be Happy...

No, it simply more fun to speculate and get excited, rather than speculate and worry. I thought this is what this whole thread is about. Anyways, many also reported much better AF speed and performance. That's all I care about. Otherwise, they could have called it SAFOX 3000, but it does not matter one bit if the performance or speed is the same.
05-11-2009, 08:26 PM   #2317
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QuoteOriginally posted by Torphoto Quote
720p by default is not better for moving images, it is because there is a 720p60 format, if there was a 1080P60 then that would be better still.
720p is better than 1080i for moving subjects. I'm trying to figure out how your statement is even relevant to what has been said? We're comparing 720p to 1080i not 720p to 1080p...
05-11-2009, 10:22 PM   #2318
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To me any interlaced resolution looks much worse than a progressive scanned one. I guess it all comes down to frequency of display and the number of lines being displayed at once. Therefore progressive scan is smoother even if it's lower resolution. You can try it yourself if you have a Blu-ray player and HD capable display ... heck you can even try it with a regular DVD player and switch between progressive scan and interlaced (you can't really compare 1080i vs 720p there, but the effect is similar). My eyes hurt if I choose interlace.

05-11-2009, 11:51 PM   #2319
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Example, Z1 is known to be the fastest Pentax AF produced until now. But only one narrow AF point. So earlier AF systems can be faster, less complex but beter motor.
Z-1p is faster than Z-1, thank's to reworked autofocus processing and faster AF processing unit, but both still has the SAFOX II...
05-11-2009, 11:54 PM   #2320
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
i thought the general consensus was that the K-m's improved AF ability was partly due to the reduction of AF points, leaving it much less to process/react to than the K20D.
That is a myth. The K-m has 5 AF points and the same layout as the *ist DL2. If your statement is true, then the *ist DL2 would be as fast as the K-m, but I can tell you that it is not. The K-m is clearly faster, especially in low light, than the *ist DL2 - and both has the same AF system.

But many people here does not know about the *ist DL2, because it wasn't sold worldwide.
05-11-2009, 11:55 PM   #2321
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
3 AFAIK. SAFOX has been the same since ist-D.
Not true.
The *ist DL has 3 AF points, the *ist DL2 has 5 - and same layout as the K-m and same center / wide switching. *ist DL2 was also sold under the name of Samsung GX-1L.
05-12-2009, 01:33 AM   #2322
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Z-1p is faster than Z-1, thank's to reworked autofocus processing and faster AF processing unit, but both still has the SAFOX II...
And both are slower and hunt way more in low light than current Pentax DSLRs (K20/K10)....
05-12-2009, 03:39 AM   #2323
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QuoteOriginally posted by dave sz Quote
720p is better than 1080i for moving subjects. I'm trying to figure out how your statement is even relevant to what has been said? We're comparing 720p to 1080i not 720p to 1080p...
This is not true. A 50/60 frame per second, even if it's interlaced, is way more "fluid" than a 30/25/24 progresive frames per second. All the people with newer camcorders that have the progresive and interlace mode can test this.

Fast paning, fast zooming, fast moving objects are problematic in 1080p or 720p. You only have 24 frames per second, you other get a lot of stutering or you get a lot of motion blur depending of the shutter speed.

QuoteOriginally posted by fejker Quote
To me any interlaced resolution looks much worse than a progressive scanned one. I guess it all comes down to frequency of display and the number of lines being displayed at once. Therefore progressive scan is smoother even if it's lower resolution. You can try it yourself if you have a Blu-ray player and HD capable display ... heck you can even try it with a regular DVD player and switch between progressive scan and interlaced (you can't really compare 1080i vs 720p there, but the effect is similar). My eyes hurt if I choose interlace.
Again, I tend to disagree. What you are saying is switching the display mode on your bluray/dvd but not switching the actual video file. If your blue ray was filmed to 24frames per second -> make it look "interlace" with 50/60 frames per second is not brining anything new or good.

I have a HD plasma display, I have a HD camcorder capable of taking progressive and interlace footage on the same tape. There is a lot more fluidity and "room for error" in the interlace footage, and practically on the TV you don't realise that the video is interlaced. But this also depends on how good the tv is, CRTs are made for this, and I think plasmas seem to cope better than LCDs with interlaced formats.
05-12-2009, 03:40 AM   #2324
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QuoteOriginally posted by sezme Quote
Stunning! And look how well Pentax is trending against Tulips (Pentax in blue)


But that must be last years' graph. The tulips are less pink this year.
05-12-2009, 04:19 AM   #2325
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Help/I need somebody/Help

After a few days mulling over Ned's "Beatles" blog entry, I've decided that the "personality" he's alluding to is a helpful one. Apart from the context-sensitive help we can expect, there will be a great deal of "smarts" built into the camera to help you take great pics -- lens distortion correction, CA removal, extended DR. The net result is, we hope, a camera that acts like it's "on your side", actively helping you to get the most out of your photography.
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