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04-20-2009, 11:28 AM   #526
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Nikon D300 was 1980,00 when announced....
The current price is the relevant price because this new Pentax will be competing with the D300 as priced now not as priced a year ago.

04-20-2009, 11:32 AM   #527
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QuoteOriginally posted by sezme Quote
As a D700 and K10D owner, I think you are either grossly underestimating Pentax's AF, or grossly overestimating the AF every other camera on the market. The truth is that there isn't nearly as big a gap as common wisdom would indicate.
Regardless of where the truth really lies the problem is that Pentax are percieved as having slower autofocus than the competition - amongst both reviewers and forum users of all brands (which is where the problem really lies I think).

Pentax need to improve AF to an appreciable degree just to offset this. Part of this will be Pentax merely saying they've improved it and marketing the improvement by highlighting it in press releases and perhaps calling it SAFOX IX or something. The power of suggestions is surprisingly strong!!

p.s. I own an *ist DS so anything will be an improvement for me!
04-20-2009, 11:34 AM   #528
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
I doubt any serious photographer want's Video capabilities in there DSLR.
I know I don't ..I have a great movie camera and a P&S that has them allready,

- Better Burst Speed
- At least 5fps
04-20-2009, 11:39 AM   #529
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Nikon D300 was 1980,00 when announced....
yeah but it was a YEAR ago.....
I remember buying a Pentium 120MHz for like $500.. Does it mean that someone can make a CPU with the same specs, today, and sell it for $400 ?

04-20-2009, 11:39 AM   #530
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Smaller than the K-M, or is that perspective?





EDIT: This thread is now so long, we're backtracking. This was discussed starting at post 302...
The top of the 43mm is in line with the shutter release of the new Pentax, thus the perspective shouldn't be distorting the perception of relative height at this point (too much).

Therefore I would hazard a guess that the shoulder of this camera isn't much higher than the diameter (perhaps 0.5cm to 1cm) of the 43mm's lens cap which is ~57mm (have one to hand!) plus however high the K20Ds mount lifts this off the ground (I don't have a K20D )
04-20-2009, 11:41 AM   #531
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
I doubt any serious photographer want's Video capabilities in there DSLR.
You are very wrong about that.
The 5D mkII is one of the most usable VIDEO cameras in the commercial industry today, so does the Nikon D90

the RED camera basically very high resolution DSLR already took over the film industry. in very short time the concept of video photography as we know it going to change complicity
04-20-2009, 11:49 AM   #532
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QuoteOriginally posted by sezme Quote
As a D700 and K10D owner, I think you are either grossly underestimating Pentax's AF, or grossly overestimating the AF every other camera on the market. The truth is that there isn't nearly as big a gap as common wisdom would indicate.
I'm comparing the K200 (and K20) with the D80 and D300.
I have tried the four of them.

The Pentax cameras have a much much slower AF, you can try to turn this around all you want, but this is a fact.
The D80 can focus instantly, while in the same condition the K20 takes its time and waste me something like 1 second because it locks the focus.

This is very, very, very annoying in some situations.

I'm not saying that Pentax have bad cameras, they have great cameras with great features, some of them cannot be found even on the highest models of canonikon (like build it SR).
However, ignoring the fact that the AF is very slow compared to anything else - is silly and will get you nowhere...
04-20-2009, 11:53 AM   #533
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
Regardless of where the truth really lies the problem is that Pentax are percieved as having slower autofocus than the competition - amongst both reviewers and forum users of all brands (which is where the problem really lies I think).

Pentax need to improve AF to an appreciable degree just to offset this. Part of this will be Pentax merely saying they've improved it and marketing the improvement by highlighting it in press releases and perhaps calling it SAFOX IX or something. The power of suggestions is surprisingly strong!!

p.s. I own an *ist DS so anything will be an improvement for me!
There's a distinct misapprehension as to where the issue with Pentax's AF performance lies.

Pentax bodies are quite competent in AF-S mode outside of low-light. There's not a huge difference in AF-S/Single Servo focusing speed between the slowest bodies and something like a 1DmIII or D3. It's frankly easy to do and the only major obstacle is accuracy, where Pentax frankly comes out ahead in many cases.

Switch to AF-C and the game changes, most notably when tracking a moving subject that's moving cross frame as well as in camera/subject distance. This is where the high-end systems show their massive performance advantage. This is also where Pentax cameras are at their worst due to a combination of relatively slow AF drives and an AF system that's not primarily speed-oriented.

Pentax bodies tend to have less powerful AF motors than the equivalent Nikon, while Sony/Minolta bodies tend to have over-spec'd AF motors compared to the equivalent Nikons, Canon and Oly of course have lens motor only. The same occurs with lenses, where Pentax spec's the less powerful micro-motors because of their compatibility with dual-drive systems while other makers spec faster ring motor drives on their equivalent lenses.

04-20-2009, 11:56 AM   #534
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QuoteOriginally posted by Enc0der Quote
I'm comparing the K200 (and K20) with the D80 and D300.
I have tried the four of them.

The Pentax cameras have a much much slower AF, you can try to turn this around all you want, but this is a fact.
The D80 can focus instantly, while in the same condition the K20 takes its time and waste me something like 1 second because it locks the focus.

This is very, very, very annoying in some situations.

I'm not saying that Pentax have bad cameras, they have great cameras with great features, some of them cannot be found even on the highest models of canonikon (like build it SR).
However, ignoring the fact that the AF is very slow compared to anything else - is silly and will get you nowhere...

I'm thinking the K20d you used was a crappy copy because I also have used it in comparison against the d300 and also the canon 40d. While I found that the Nikon and Canon were noticeably faster at times, I did not feel that my K20d was completely outclassed.

I also would love to see improved autofocus but I really don't feel like the current pentax autofocus is a sh**ty as people love to post in these threads. I've taken thousands of pictures with my k20d and I'm completely content with it. Even after spending days playing with a friends d300, which is better is several respects, but not enough to make me regret my purchase of the K20d.
04-20-2009, 12:03 PM   #535
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
I doubt any serious photographer want's Video capabilities in there DSLR.
QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
You are very wrong about that.
The 5D mkII is one of the most usable VIDEO cameras in the commercial industry today, so does the Nikon D90

the RED camera basically very high resolution DSLR already took over the film industry. in very short time the concept of video photography as we know it going to change complicity
Still photography and video photography are different art forms, although there are people who can excel at both (eg. Stanley Kubrik, Wim Wenders). As anyone who's shot professional video will tell you, making video is much more of a production, and the actual recording of the video itself is only one part of the process. Still photographers are understandably excited that they can now get bokeh in their videos by using a DSLR, but without good sound, lighting, staging, scripting, etc. most of them probably don't know what they're going into. My guess is most DSLR shooters who are wanting integrated video are just shooting family pics, and now want to shoot video of their kids' soccer games too. Nothing wrong with that, but I agree that not too many serious photographers will do more than dabble with DSLR video. There are just too many better tools for making video.
04-20-2009, 12:04 PM   #536
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
I doubt any serious photographer want's Video capabilities in there DSLR.
If its in there, and not at the expense of having better stills IQ then I for one would certainly not have a problem with it.
04-20-2009, 12:04 PM   #537
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just a random note about the price point for the US market...

Tekade also lists the 15mm limited @ 679 euros...or roughly $875 US

Adorama is selling this lens for $579....about a 33% discount from the European site...

If we use the same logic...I anticipate this camera will come in around $1,300 US...roughly the same as the k20d when it was released....

lift the embargo!!
04-20-2009, 12:05 PM   #538
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QuoteOriginally posted by mk07138 Quote
I'm thinking the K20d you used was a crappy copy because I also have used it in comparison against the d300 and also the canon 40d. While I found that the Nikon and Canon were noticeably faster at times, I did not feel that my K20d was completely outclassed.

I also would love to see improved autofocus but I really don't feel like the current pentax autofocus is a sh**ty as people love to post in these threads. I've taken thousands of pictures with my k20d and I'm completely content with it. Even after spending days playing with a friends d300, which is better is several respects, but not enough to make me regret my purchase of the K20d.


well, it's all about perspective...
for you waiting 1 second for AF is good enough, for me it's crazy-slow.
04-20-2009, 12:10 PM   #539
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Hi are there cliff notes that I can buy for this thread?

this thread has turned into the iliad, except its much more interesting to read. (maybe if homer's story had insight on the new camera from pentax it would have been an interesting read... oh wait i dont read anything over 10 pages.)
04-20-2009, 12:17 PM   #540
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Competitive pricing :D

QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
The current price is the relevant price because this new Pentax will be competing with the D300 as priced now not as priced a year ago.
Oh, in that case the Pentax should be a winner...Tekade has the D300 now for 1599,00, a whopping 99 more..!!!! So the new one is already cheaper!!!!!
I have no doubt the 1500,00 will drop on actual release and even more after a few months... Maybe down to a meagre 1100,00 within a year.

QuoteOriginally posted by Enc0der Quote
yeah but it was a YEAR ago.....
See above
QuoteOriginally posted by Enc0der Quote
I remember buying a Pentium 120MHz for like $500.. Does it mean that someone can make a CPU with the same specs, today, and sell it for $400 ?
That is apples and pears I think.... While you can still get decent results with your Ds, and for that matter would not really need anyhting else for merely taking pictures, new programs and utilities require faster and better CPU's.
Unlike light and things you shoot, they hardly change.
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