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04-20-2009, 12:17 PM   #541
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyou Quote
Hi are there cliff notes that I can buy for this thread?

this thread has turned into the iliad, except its much more interesting to read. (maybe if homer's story had insight on the new camera from pentax it would have been an interesting read... oh wait i dont read anything over 10 pages.)

It's also a bit like human history: Those who do not read the thread are doomed to repeat it (posts).

Interesting to see if the second or third time something comes up brings a different outcome.


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04-20-2009, 12:39 PM   #542
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Some comments mke me laugh, others want to cry.

As for features/price compared to, say, D300:

1/ No AF isn't that slow. People who have both tells you in this thread but you chose to ignore them, pretty interesting behaviour, really.

2/ AF is already quite better on the K-m/K2000 so, for sure they will keep older K20 AF module...

3/ You compare to Nikon features (AF etc) but don't take into account what Pentax has and Kikon has not, or not in this price segment. Again, very convenient for you.

4/ Geeez we dunno the specs, the camera isn't tested, but you know you want a D300. The question is 'what the hell are you doing here?'.

5/ When the D400 will come, its price will be good enough 'because it is a Nikon and as such it will go down later so that's OK. The Pentax as well but that's Pentax so it doesn't count'.

6/ God, it has a ridiculously small APS-C sensor. Sure, D300/D400 as well but then it's no problem.

7/ Small sensor? It ought to make pics of lower quality isnt it? For sure, like if a FullFrame will make a genious photographer out of an idiot. Oly is there as well and oh, 'the E3 is a nice camera. Sensor size? No really a problem the camera is good'. Mmm sure sure

I will add a little proverb in French because I'm not sure exactly how to translate it. I'ms ure will do it better than me:

'On ne peut pas avoir le beurre, l'argent du beurre... et le derrière (pour rester poli) de la fermière'

But this is exactly what you want, and that for less than a quid because it's Pentax, period.
04-20-2009, 12:46 PM   #543
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I will add a little proverb in French because I'm not sure exactly how to translate it. I'ms ure will do it better than me:

'On ne peut pas avoir le beurre, l'argent du beurre... et le derrière (pour rester poli) de la fermière'

I think it translates to "to want to have one's cake and eat it too" but it's not as colored as your french version
04-20-2009, 12:52 PM   #544
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
Still photography and video photography are different art forms, although there are people who can excel at both (eg. Stanley Kubrik, Wim Wenders). As anyone who's shot professional video will tell you, making video is much more of a production, and the actual recording of the video itself is only one part of the process. Still photographers are understandably excited that they can now get bokeh in their videos by using a DSLR, but without good sound, lighting, staging, scripting, etc. most of them probably don't know what they're going into. My guess is most DSLR shooters who are wanting integrated video are just shooting family pics, and now want to shoot video of their kids' soccer games too. Nothing wrong with that, but I agree that not too many serious photographers will do more than dabble with DSLR video. There are just too many better tools for making video.
its not the question whether profesional still photographers will start shooting video.

but its the fact that professional video photographers and broadcast studios are now using DSLRs as a main video camera.

and I promises you that you will see the same thing form Panasonic and/ or any other major video camera makers .

P.S
I work at the broadcast commercial industry . our studio have 2 5D's and our video photographers using them as a main tool for HD video photography

04-20-2009, 01:22 PM   #545
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Oh, in that case the Pentax should be a winner...Tekade has the D300 now for € 1599,00, a whopping € 99 more..!!!! So the new one is already cheaper!!!!!
I have no doubt the € 1500,00 will drop on actual release and even more after a few months... Maybe down to a meagre € 1100,00 within a year.
It still needs to be competitive with the D300 because it will still be in its price bracket
04-20-2009, 01:33 PM   #546
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I think it translates to "to want to have one's cake and eat it too" but it's not as colored as your french version

In Italy [at least in my region] we say "you can't have the chicken, the egg and keep your ass warm too"
04-20-2009, 01:38 PM   #547
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Some comments mke me laugh, others want to cry.

As for features/price compared to, say, D300:

1/ No AF isn't that slow. People who have both tells you in this thread but you chose to ignore them, pretty interesting behaviour, really.

2/ AF is already quite better on the K-m/K2000 so, for sure they will keep older K20 AF module...
I really hope they don't keep the same AF module if they are going to charge 1500 euros at launch. They need to at least rename it just to be able to market the camera effectively.

The K20D AF module is the same as they used in the *ist DS. AF performance has improved of course but I have read reviews which point out the old AF module.

AF may indeed be good enough for most people but its's the perception that's important.

QuoteQuote:
3/ You compare to Nikon features (AF etc) but don't take into account what Pentax has and Kikon has not, or not in this price segment. Again, very convenient for you.

4/ Geeez we dunno the specs, the camera isn't tested, but you know you want a D300. The question is 'what the hell are you doing here?'.
Pentax don't exist in the D300 price segment yet as you confusingly point out in point 4. What people are saying is that if you want to charge X amount for a camera you need to match X cost with Y features. The D300 is an excellent camera in this price point. The K20D is a great camera at its price point. If this new one is going to be the same price point as the D300 it has to leave most of the guts of the K20D behind. That's all.

QuoteQuote:
5/ When the D400 will come, its price will be good enough 'because it is a Nikon and as such it will go down later so that's OK. The Pentax as well but that's Pentax so it doesn't count'.
Of course the new camera's price will drop overtime.

QuoteQuote:
6/ God, it has a ridiculously small APS-C sensor. Sure, D300/D400 as well but then it's no problem.

7/ Small sensor? It ought to make pics of lower quality isnt it? For sure, like if a FullFrame will make a genious photographer out of an idiot. Oly is there as well and oh, 'the E3 is a nice camera. Sensor size? No really a problem the camera is good'. Mmm sure sure
I think one person said high priced APS-C cameras will be more difficult to sell because of the lower priced FF models.

QuoteQuote:
I will add a little proverb in French because I'm not sure exactly how to translate it. I'ms ure will do it better than me:

'On ne peut pas avoir le beurre, l'argent du beurre... et le derrière (pour rester poli) de la fermière'

But this is exactly what you want, and that for less than a quid because it's Pentax, period.
Here's another saying: You get what you pay for
04-20-2009, 01:45 PM   #548
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QuoteOriginally posted by melander Quote
Is this the flash?

No, I believe this is the flash. Nothing new here…


04-20-2009, 01:57 PM   #549
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look-alike Pentax X70
Fotopolis.pl: Pentax X70 - test
04-20-2009, 02:05 PM   #550
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You might want to take a second look. Or two.
04-20-2009, 02:09 PM   #551
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It sure is all over the place! Wish I had the time to read every page

I still can't believe that overnight, this thread saw more views than Ben's "Something interesting...really" thread. Now all we have to do is wait for an official announcement of the K7D, or whatever they'll be calling it.
Consider yourself slashdotted. Or, more precisely, engadgeted!
04-20-2009, 02:16 PM   #552
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Some comments mke me laugh, others want to cry.

As for features/price compared to, say, D300:

1/ No AF isn't that slow. People who have both tells you in this thread but you chose to ignore them, pretty interesting behaviour, really.
It's not much slower in AF-S mode other than low light. In AF-C mode the D300 destroys the Pentax in performance, AF tracking in particular is miles ahead. That said, the D300 destroys every other camera in-class in AF-C tracking.

QuoteQuote:
2/ AF is already quite better on the K-m/K2000 so, for sure they will keep older K20 AF module...
I wouldn't call the K-m quite a bit better. As D40 owners found out if you remove enough focus points even mediocre AF units get better because they have less to process.

QuoteQuote:
3/ You compare to Nikon features (AF etc) but don't take into account what Pentax has and Kikon has not, or not in this price segment. Again, very convenient for you.
Pentax has SR and full Weathersealing (But not at this pricepoint, since the K20D is comparably priced to the D90 not the D300). Nikon has AF performance, buffering, fps, battery life (My D300 maxed out at 2800 L/Fine JPG's on the small battery), build, VF, configurability, Live View, LCD, GPS Support, WiFi support with Live View feed, max shutter, flash sync, metering, wireless flash capability, physical controls, Mirror Lockup and more. The new Pentax body would need to be a major increase in performance and features to approach the D300 and justify a 1500 Euro pricepoint.

QuoteQuote:
4/ Geeez we dunno the specs, the camera isn't tested, but you know you want a D300. The question is 'what the hell are you doing here?'.
In my case, owned the K10D, owned the D300, now getting by with a Panny G1 and Nikon & Pentax film bodies. The new Pentax looks interesting as I greatly prefer compact bodies but don't want to give up certain 'Pro' features like PC Sync and shutter speed/sync speed.

QuoteQuote:
5/ When the D400 will come, its price will be good enough 'because it is a Nikon and as such it will go down later so that's OK. The Pentax as well but that's Pentax so it doesn't count'.
When the D400 comes out it will likely set the standard for performance at its pricepoint (as the D300 and D200 did before it) and continue to do so as its price drops. Pentax can't offer K20D performance for D300 money and expect to sell much.

QuoteQuote:
6/ God, it has a ridiculously small APS-C sensor. Sure, D300/D400 as well but then it's no problem.
Don't disagree there. I'd like to see a $1.5K FF body, but that's not going to happen anytime soon from anybody.

QuoteQuote:
7/ Small sensor? It ought to make pics of lower quality isnt it? For sure, like if a FullFrame will make a genious photographer out of an idiot. Oly is there as well and oh, 'the E3 is a nice camera. Sensor size? No really a problem the camera is good'. Mmm sure sure
Well my perspective on the E3 is somewhat different (I think Oly massively flubbed a basically good idea due to awful button layout, poor IQ for the pixel count and overpricing) but I generally don't disagree with you here either.

QuoteQuote:
I will add a little proverb in French because I'm not sure exactly how to translate it. I'ms ure will do it better than me:

'On ne peut pas avoir le beurre, l'argent du beurre... et le derrière (pour rester poli) de la fermière'

But this is exactly what you want, and that for less than a quid because it's Pentax, period.
Nah, what I want to see is Pentax wake up and realize they need to step up a little bit in a few areas. Their low-end bodies need real buffers (None of this 4 shots of RAW crap, it's not 2004 anymore. And yes, Canon, that includes you and the hunk of crap you call the Rebel XS) and they need to increase fps and AF-C performance on the higher-end bodies to be competitive with the D90 or Rebel T1i (ie 4fps and a moderate AF-C speed increase, even if only via putting a real AF drive motor in the new body.
04-20-2009, 02:29 PM   #553
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
I have no doubt the € 1500,00 will drop on actual release and even more after a few months... Maybe down to a meagre € 1100,00 within a year.
K20D (body) was on a preorder @ USD $1299 in Jan (Jan 28-29 ???) 2008 in USA... 6 month later you could get it (new) for like USD $650 (of course rebate and M$ live cashback included - but still 2 times cheaper... so hopefully M$ will help us again).
04-20-2009, 03:39 PM   #554
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QuoteOriginally posted by nufenstein Quote
Tekade also lists the 15mm limited @ 679 euros...or roughly $875 US

Adorama is selling this lens for $579....about a 33% discount from the European site...
€679 translates to $737 (you must deduct 19% VAT).

Tekade also lists the K-m kit at €383 which translates to $416.

Adorama lists the K-m kit at $550.


So, I wouldn't say one or the other is cheaper.

€1500 translates to $1629.
04-20-2009, 04:41 PM   #555
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
I work at the broadcast commercial industry . our studio have 2 5D's and our video photographers using them as a main tool for HD video photography
Curious, how do they do that without having the ability to use tracking AF? Do they just shoot at really small apertures so everything is in focus, do a lot of shoot-stop-focus-edit workflow, that kind of thing?


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