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04-20-2009, 04:59 PM   #556
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Ok first off why do so many people not believe that larger sensors benefit image quality. I will admit that for a lot of task APS-C is just fine, but the fact is that if Pentax keeps adding MP and tries to keep up with their competition then they will have to make some sacrifices. Look at what happened to the 50D, Canon has one of the best teams in the world when it comes to making sensors and they pushed that sensor in the 50D to far, the 40D walks all over it in terms of image quality. Lower pixel density translates to lower noise, and higher DR. Sure tech keeps improving, but it improves on both ends so to claim that a 5DmkI and a D300 have similar noise is crazy because the D300 is a newer sensor. I am not saying FF is necessary but it does improve image quality in a way that pushed it ahead of APS-C. I currently shoot with a 5DmkII, having moved from a K20D, but if Pentax can deliver the resolving power of the 5d or the iso capabilities I will come back in a second.

Now all of that aside, this new predicted price puts this body in an interesting class. Almost a class of its own between the current 50ds and d300s. I hate having to compare the camera to nikon and canon but this is business and essentially to a consumer they are all cameras, its just a matter of which one is best for the price.

So if we assume that the K20 competed with the D80 and 40D then we must assume that this new camera will up that one level at least and the price suggests going up one further. This camera should rest very easily between budget FF and advanced APS-C. To me this means Pentax can either be the most expensive APS-C camera on the market (excluding the 1D series), or they can be the cheapest FF.

04-20-2009, 05:52 PM   #557
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QuoteOriginally posted by joerg Quote
Look at what happened to the 50D, Canon has one of the best teams in the world when it comes to making sensors and they pushed that sensor in the 50D to far, the 40D walks all over it in terms of image quality.
That is not true. The 50D maintain the same overall quality (DR, noise, etc.) while having 50% more resolution. Check the DXOmark factual measurements if you don't believe me.
04-20-2009, 07:19 PM   #558
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Square Sensor

I don't think it's necessary to rule out the square sensor completely. Pareto's comments earlier about the utility of switching between vertical crop and horizontal crop at the touch of a button (or for that matter the full available area of the sensor) would provide somewhat novel and useful functionality. I don't think it is money spent without benefit to the consumer.

Turning the camera of course is not hard, but there would be no need then for a portrait grip, or procedural changes for camera mounted accessories (eg. flash). Also, this raises some interesting possibilities for creative cropping / video crops / digital pans etc. that could be of use in some way that we have not yet imagined (the same way we all thought the nintendo DS would be a silly gimick, or the wii nothing more than name calling).

The fairly banal complaint about lens hoods needing to be redesigned is not I think a deal breaker. Engineers can design a device to record representations of light into nothing more than electronic information... I'm sure a plastic adapter for each lens is not out of their scope of expertise.

The camera is at an interesting price point - as discussed. There must be some reason it is priced in such a way.... maybe the camera is not truly APS-c, but rather APS-c compatible, with the extras that a square type sensor might offer.

04-20-2009, 07:19 PM   #559
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"I work at the broadcast commercial industry . our studio have 2 5D's and our video photographers using them as a main tool for HD video photography"

It's called pulling focus, i.e manually focusing the lens as you follow or switch focus to another subject.

Spence Nicholson - Director

04-20-2009, 07:30 PM   #560
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QuoteOriginally posted by Enc0der Quote
well, it's all about perspective...
for you waiting 1 second for AF is good enough, for me it's crazy-slow.
Haha, I've never had to wait a full second for my K20d unless I'm sitting in my room with the lights off. One more reason for me to say your K20d has some issues.

I'm sitting here in my room now lit with one tungsten bulb at 60W and my K20d is still locking focus in less than a second unless I aim it at the blank wall. Like I said before it's not lightning fast and I'd love to see improvement but I've never had to wait a full second for lock, and out in bright light it might as well be instantaneous.

As was also cited before this is in AF.S not AF.C, I will agree that this is a place where the Nikon is leaps and bounds ahead of the Pentax. The D300 does a damn fine job following any action.
04-20-2009, 07:34 PM   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by spade111 Quote
Also, this raises some interesting possibilities for creative cropping / video crops / digital pans etc. that could be of use in some way that we have not yet imagined (the same way we all thought the nintendo DS would be a silly gimick, or the wii nothing more than name calling).
Please do not compare this to the DS or Wii...sure they move lots of units, but truthfully people purchase them, use them a few times and then forget about them (more so the wii than the DS...the DS is OK but still has tons of crappy software...). This occurs because the product is gimmicky! Please do not let the Pentax be gimmicky....PLEASE.

I think square sensor would be neat but I'm not counting on it. I would bet for APS-H before square sensor.
04-20-2009, 07:38 PM   #562
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the Wii is not a gimmick, its a whole new way to game, I got mine 2 years ago and still play it when i have the time, and if i ever do have a moment to pick up a 360 or ps3 contoller i long for the intuitive motion control aspects of the Wii
04-20-2009, 07:42 PM   #563
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Curious, how do they do that without having the ability to use tracking AF? Do they just shoot at really small apertures so everything is in focus, do a lot of shoot-stop-focus-edit workflow, that kind of thing?


.
you right... the 5D's are used for commercials more where every shot is story board and most shot are planed and static. for cranes dollies or over the shoulder shots our photographers use the red camera .

but it does make our life that much easier with extra wide shots, with food video or green screen

not to advertise Canon but when the video directors in our studio saw this video at a canon presentation it took about 3 days before they switched

YouTube - CANON 5D Mark II

04-20-2009, 07:46 PM   #564
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Maybe it's a new, secret super EVF SLR compact system with an APS-C sensor, that still uses all the DA lenses.
04-20-2009, 07:53 PM   #565
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I think we can agree that none of us wants anything gimicky.

The nintendo analogy was simply there to illustrate that new ways of thinking and design often open us to possibilities that might seem a bit odd at first - however when actualized become 'the norm'. Maybe a scroll sphere will allow us to selectively crop /pan the image realtime during video recording. Maybe a finger sensitive touchscreen will allow selective tracking of a target for AF / Exposure. Maybe finger gestures will navigate our menus. Maybe an electronic exposure compensation system which selectively dims allowable light through weighted portions of an electronic filter in front of the sensor will allow for a massive increase in dynamic range - an never another blowout. Maybe two-dimensional grid shifting of the sensor will allow for a massive increase in apparent resolution through some new anti-aliasing algorithm. Maybe we will get the same old pentax kit in a new body.

I just think that pentax could do something interesting with the square sensor. Heck, I'd love to take circular pictures. That's somewhere on the other side of battlestar's cutting corners though I think.
04-20-2009, 08:30 PM   #566
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QuoteOriginally posted by mawz Quote
It's not much slower in AF-S mode other than low light. In AF-C mode the D300 destroys the Pentax in performance, AF tracking in particular is miles ahead. That said, the D300 destroys every other camera in-class in AF-C tracking.
It's true that I was thinking mostly of AF-S when comparing my K10D favourably with my D700 (controlled repetitive focussing tests using screw-driven AF lenses in a variety of light levels showed almost no advantage to the Nikon). However, while I don't deny the Nikon's superior focus-tracking ability in AF-C, my limited experiments using AF-C in lowish light trying to follow erratically moving human subjects show that even that camera doesn't perform as well as some would hope. No, even with some of the best cameras money can buy right now, AF is not instantaneous, and it isn't infallible. I really think Pentax gets an unfairly bad rap in this regard. I hope to be able to better compare their respective AF-C and focus-tracking performance in the near future.

Of course having said all that, I wouldn't say no to an improvement.
04-20-2009, 09:04 PM   #567
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
I doubt any serious photographer want's Video capabilities in there DSLR.
I can assure you that pretty much any working spot news photojournalist wants video in their DSLR. Sure, we all love photos, and I'd argue that a good still can beat out a video of the same scene any day, but there are situations, especially breaking news, where having the option to switch to video capture will definitely give you a let up on the competition.

Of course, a still photographer isn't going to produce video at Kubrick quality, but in the situations I'm talking about, that's not what matters.
04-20-2009, 09:13 PM   #568
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I've heard that crop 1.3 would be only for VIDEO and for FA, DFA, M, K, A lenses.
And new camera will be with APS-H sensor (but not classis ratio)
04-20-2009, 09:23 PM   #569
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
you right... the 5D's are used for commercials more where every shot is story board and most shot are planed and static. for cranes dollies or over the shoulder shots our photographers use the red camera .

but it does make our life that much easier with extra wide shots, with food video or green screen

not to advertise Canon but when the video directors in our studio saw this video at a canon presentation it took about 3 days before they switched

YouTube - CANON 5D Mark II
Commercials, and i mean REAL commercials, like national ads, ones for brands like McDonalds, Ford, Budwesier, etc, ARE NOT shot with DSLR's, more commercials these days are definately shooting RED more and more, but the RED is geared much more to the pro FILM level than ANY DSLR. The only thing i could think of seeing the 5dmkII used for on commercials of these levels are as action cameras, or car mounts, or timelapse. It's about the same price to buy a canon 5dmkII and have it destroyed for an action shot then to have an insurance claim on a pro level film camera that was destroyed because the crash housing failed (which i have persoanlly seen happen).
04-20-2009, 09:31 PM   #570
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QuoteOriginally posted by dantekgeek Quote
I can assure you that pretty much any working spot news photojournalist wants video in their DSLR.
I think it's only a matter of time. The more the concept is perfected the more we're going to use it, and I'm guessing it'll soon be a requirement, not a nice-to-have option. It's almost similar to the film vs digital debate in the early days. I know, it's not the same, I'm only referring to technology adoption here. Once digital was able to deliver, it became a no-brainer.

The media is undeniably changing and I'm sure there's increasing demand for better hybrids especially that we now have easier means to use and publish video.

On the home user level, who wouldn't want a camera that does everything and does it well?
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