is this pic of K30D?

fejker · 05-02-2009, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by mutedphotos

I think that's probably going to be your biggest issue with any APS-C camera, a wide fast lens. As far as I know you're only real options are the 14/2.8 and 15/4, or maybe the new sigma 10-20/3.5. Those lenses could get you into the 30-40s exposure range but aren't as fast as a 1.4 so you might still be left dealing with high ISO issues again.

Hey, you left ot the DA 12-24mm f/4!

Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer

If it's going to be smaller than the K20d than it won't be for me I love the feel of the K20d in my hands. My K100 was too small for my big hands.

Isn't it's going to be a camera for mainly Prime lens users?
If so it will be more for landscape and portrait shooters.
I sure hope the K30 will stay the same size as the K20.

I love the K10D/K20D size and it feels right in my hands. When I picked up the K-m I couldn't fit my small finger anywhere on the grip but it still felt good in my hand. So I guess if the new camera is a bit bigger than the K-m and has an optional grip available that will be very good. The depth of the lip on the grip also counts as I have long slim pianist fingers.

ogl · 05-02-2009, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Torphoto

nope, now look at the Oly E-3 yes.

optical illusion

mutedphotos · 05-02-2009, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by fejker

Hey, you left ot the DA 12-24mm f/4!

Intentionally. I mentioned the 14mm and 15mm because he originally talked about primes (31mm, canon 24/1.4), and then added the 10-20 because it's (slightly) faster and wider than the 12-24, allowing for a little more exposure room in night photography.

vinzer · 05-02-2009, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by dave sz

I think you're the only person who thinks k20 has excellent high ISO performance...

He's not the only one. It's only that those who complain about the K20D's high ISO performance are much more vocal about it. The rest don't bother extolling it much and simply use it.

fejker · 05-02-2009, 10:33 PM

But have you tried the new Sigma 10-20 and compared it against the 12-24? I'm interested in the results as I was in a dilemma when buying a wide angle lens. The 14mm was out of the question (too soft), then came the old Sigma 10-20 (acceptable) and when I tried the 12-24 I got my answer (very little distortion and great handling, sharp too compared to the other two). Yes I know the Sigma is the cheapest but I want my pics to be sharp and distorted as little as possible.

mutedphotos · 05-02-2009, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by fejker

But have you tried the new Sigma 10-20 and compared it against the 12-24? I'm interested in the results as I was in a dilemma when buying a wide angle lens. The 14mm was out of the question (too soft), then came the old Sigma 10-20 (acceptable) and when I tried the 12-24 I got my answer (very little distortion and great handling, sharp too compared to the other two). Yes I know the Sigma is the cheapest but I want my pics to be sharp and distorted as little as possible.

I have not tried the 12-24. My leaving it out before had nothing to do with the quality, I was solely looking at exposure time for night photography. I did recently get the 10-20 (older one) used for half the cost of the 12-24 though, and I don't think the difference in optical quality between the two merits that much extra money...for me at least.

vinzer · 05-02-2009, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by Art Vandelay II

Sometimes I wonder how much people care about that. Most people I know prefer the construction of the Canon 40D over the K20D because it simply feels more solid....and I'd be afraid to take the 40D onto a beach. Then there's the Rebel line. Those have to be the most flimsy, cheaply made SLR's I've ever touched and yet the sale like crazy even though the price of the K20D is right in the ballpark of the Rebel xSi.

Marketing, marketing, marketing. Without kick-ass ads and a poorer brand recognition in today's generation of kids, Canon and Nikon will most often be the choice of a prospective buyer.

Peer pressure (a lot of friends owning Canon/Nikon entry-level cameras) and doing the research in-store (where a lot of salespeople push Canon and Nikon) can also tweak the scales in favor of the big two brands.

vinzer · 05-02-2009, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

You mean the ugliest of all DSLR's?

Ok so some Canons are equally ugly if not worse...

Anyway, I disagree that they are distinctive apart from the ugliness. I find most DSLR to have no real styling or design; just a formless blob without character of charisma. Like the blandest of Asian cars. Cameras you forget what looks like until the next time you see them.

The Pentax K7 seems to me to a DSLR with more distinction; it is certainly a progress from it's predecessors....

Regardless of whether one thinks it's ugly or not, the A900 would certainly win the award of "most distinctive" so far. It's increasingly harder to distinguish DSLRs from one another without looking at the name on the prism hump and the model name on the body. At least the Sony's prism hump stands out.

The K-7 would probably be easily recognizable by the strap lugs, more so than the prism hump.

KungPOW · 05-02-2009, 11:36 PM

Hey Ogl, Rice, or anyone not under the NDA....

What do you think about the thing we are all assuming to be a focus assist lamp on the front of the K-7.

Any chance it is actually part of the exposure system and works along with the TTL meter to determine the brightness of the scene in front of the camera?

Is it a photometer that allows the camera to AUTOMATICALLY adjust exposure compensation?

The cell determines the the area in front of the camera is bright, the TTL meter does its "18% grey thing", and then the camera automaically dials up the exposure?

Or when it determines the scene to be dark, it dials the exposure down?

Works like the room brightness eye found on modern TV sets?

I thought of this after looking at Ned's latest blog posting.

Note: I am not talking about white balance here.

and · 05-02-2009, 11:39 PM

While I believe several have or have seen the photos of the body, I think the number of people that actually know the specs are far fewer

illdefined · 05-03-2009, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by vinzer

Regardless of whether one thinks it's ugly or not, the A900 would certainly win the award of "most distinctive" so far. It's increasingly harder to distinguish DSLRs from one another without looking at the name on the prism hump and the model name on the body. At least the Sony's prism hump stands out.

The K-7 would probably be easily recognizable by the strap lugs, more so than the prism hump.

The $400 Olympus E-420 has those same retro strap lugs, they're not very special.

illdefined · 05-03-2009, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by KungPOW

Hey Ogl, Rice, or anyone not under the NDA....

What do you think about the thing we are all assuming to be a focus assist lamp on the front of the K-7.

Any chance it is actually part of the exposure system and works along with the TTL meter to determine the brightness of the scene in front of the camera?

Is it a photometer that allows the camera to AUTOMATICALLY adjust exposure compensation?

The cell determines the the area in front of the camera is bright, the TTL meter does its "18% grey thing", and then the camera automaically dials up the exposure?

Or when it determines the scene to be dark, it dials the exposure down?

Works like the room brightness eye found on modern TV sets?

I thought of this after looking at Ned's latest blog posting.

Note: I am not talking about white balance here.

Yep, this isn't something that would show clearly on a prerelease specsheet either.

KungPOW · 05-03-2009, 12:25 AM

Auto focus
AV
AT
auto ISO
etc...

Auto Exposure Comp?

dopeytree · 05-03-2009, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by KungPOW

Auto focus
AV
AT
auto ISO
etc...

Auto Exposure Comp?

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely all you have to do is press the green button or use the top display for the camera to tell you if its metered to what it thinks is correct metering or under/over tec?

All they need to do is improve the metering a bit.

ogl · 05-03-2009, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by KungPOW

What do you think about the thing we are all assuming to be a focus assist lamp on the front of the K-7.

Any chance it is actually part of the exposure system and works along with the TTL meter to determine the brightness of the scene in front of the camera?

Is it a photometer that allows the camera to AUTOMATICALLY adjust exposure compensation?

The cell determines the the area in front of the camera is bright, the TTL meter does its "18% grey thing", and then the camera automaically dials up the exposure?

Or when it determines the scene to be dark, it dials the exposure down?

Works like the room brightness eye found on modern TV sets?

I thought of this after looking at Ned's latest blog posting.

Note: I am not talking about white balance here.

I don't know. It seems to me that K-7 has absolutely NEW exposure system.
And even better than other brands have.

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05-02-2009, 10:07 PM	#1741
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	Originally posted by mutedphotos I think that's probably going to be your biggest issue with any APS-C camera, a wide fast lens. As far as I know you're only real options are the 14/2.8 and 15/4, or maybe the new sigma 10-20/3.5. Those lenses could get you into the 30-40s exposure range but aren't as fast as a 1.4 so you might still be left dealing with high ISO issues again. Hey, you left ot the DA 12-24mm f/4! Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer If it's going to be smaller than the K20d than it won't be for me I love the feel of the K20d in my hands. My K100 was too small for my big hands. Isn't it's going to be a camera for mainly Prime lens users? If so it will be more for landscape and portrait shooters. I sure hope the K30 will stay the same size as the K20. I love the K10D/K20D size and it feels right in my hands. When I picked up the K-m I couldn't fit my small finger anywhere on the grip but it still felt good in my hand. So I guess if the new camera is a bit bigger than the K-m and has an optional grip available that will be very good. The depth of the lip on the grip also counts as I have long slim pianist fingers.

05-02-2009, 10:13 PM	#1742
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Torphoto nope, now look at the Oly E-3 yes. optical illusion

05-02-2009, 10:26 PM	#1743
mutedphotos Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 149	Originally posted by fejker Hey, you left ot the DA 12-24mm f/4! Intentionally. I mentioned the 14mm and 15mm because he originally talked about primes (31mm, canon 24/1.4), and then added the 10-20 because it's (slightly) faster and wider than the 12-24, allowing for a little more exposure room in night photography.

05-02-2009, 10:32 PM	#1744
vinzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 1,399	Originally posted by dave sz I think you're the only person who thinks k20 has excellent high ISO performance... He's not the only one. It's only that those who complain about the K20D's high ISO performance are much more vocal about it. The rest don't bother extolling it much and simply use it.

05-02-2009, 10:33 PM	#1745
fejker Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 258	But have you tried the new Sigma 10-20 and compared it against the 12-24? I'm interested in the results as I was in a dilemma when buying a wide angle lens. The 14mm was out of the question (too soft), then came the old Sigma 10-20 (acceptable) and when I tried the 12-24 I got my answer (very little distortion and great handling, sharp too compared to the other two). Yes I know the Sigma is the cheapest but I want my pics to be sharp and distorted as little as possible.

05-02-2009, 10:37 PM	#1746
mutedphotos Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 149	Originally posted by fejker But have you tried the new Sigma 10-20 and compared it against the 12-24? I'm interested in the results as I was in a dilemma when buying a wide angle lens. The 14mm was out of the question (too soft), then came the old Sigma 10-20 (acceptable) and when I tried the 12-24 I got my answer (very little distortion and great handling, sharp too compared to the other two). Yes I know the Sigma is the cheapest but I want my pics to be sharp and distorted as little as possible. I have not tried the 12-24. My leaving it out before had nothing to do with the quality, I was solely looking at exposure time for night photography. I did recently get the 10-20 (older one) used for half the cost of the 12-24 though, and I don't think the difference in optical quality between the two merits that much extra money...for me at least.

05-02-2009, 10:50 PM	#1747
vinzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 1,399	Originally posted by Art Vandelay II Sometimes I wonder how much people care about that. Most people I know prefer the construction of the Canon 40D over the K20D because it simply feels more solid....and I'd be afraid to take the 40D onto a beach. Then there's the Rebel line. Those have to be the most flimsy, cheaply made SLR's I've ever touched and yet the sale like crazy even though the price of the K20D is right in the ballpark of the Rebel xSi. Marketing, marketing, marketing. Without kick-ass ads and a poorer brand recognition in today's generation of kids, Canon and Nikon will most often be the choice of a prospective buyer. Peer pressure (a lot of friends owning Canon/Nikon entry-level cameras) and doing the research in-store (where a lot of salespeople push Canon and Nikon) can also tweak the scales in favor of the big two brands.

05-02-2009, 11:23 PM	#1748
vinzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 1,399	Originally posted by Pål Jensen You mean the ugliest of all DSLR's? Ok so some Canons are equally ugly if not worse... Anyway, I disagree that they are distinctive apart from the ugliness. I find most DSLR to have no real styling or design; just a formless blob without character of charisma. Like the blandest of Asian cars. Cameras you forget what looks like until the next time you see them. The Pentax K7 seems to me to a DSLR with more distinction; it is certainly a progress from it's predecessors.... Regardless of whether one thinks it's ugly or not, the A900 would certainly win the award of "most distinctive" so far. It's increasingly harder to distinguish DSLRs from one another without looking at the name on the prism hump and the model name on the body. At least the Sony's prism hump stands out. The K-7 would probably be easily recognizable by the strap lugs, more so than the prism hump.

05-02-2009, 11:36 PM	#1749
KungPOW Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,699	Hey Ogl, Rice, or anyone not under the NDA.... What do you think about the thing we are all assuming to be a focus assist lamp on the front of the K-7. Any chance it is actually part of the exposure system and works along with the TTL meter to determine the brightness of the scene in front of the camera? Is it a photometer that allows the camera to AUTOMATICALLY adjust exposure compensation? The cell determines the the area in front of the camera is bright, the TTL meter does its "18% grey thing", and then the camera automaically dials up the exposure? Or when it determines the scene to be dark, it dials the exposure down? Works like the room brightness eye found on modern TV sets? I thought of this after looking at Ned's latest blog posting. Note: I am not talking about white balance here.

05-02-2009, 11:39 PM	#1750
and Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,476	While I believe several have or have seen the photos of the body, I think the number of people that actually know the specs are far fewer

05-03-2009, 12:02 AM	#1751
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by vinzer Regardless of whether one thinks it's ugly or not, the A900 would certainly win the award of "most distinctive" so far. It's increasingly harder to distinguish DSLRs from one another without looking at the name on the prism hump and the model name on the body. At least the Sony's prism hump stands out. The K-7 would probably be easily recognizable by the strap lugs, more so than the prism hump. The $400 Olympus E-420 has those same retro strap lugs, they're not very special.

05-03-2009, 12:21 AM	#1752
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by KungPOW Hey Ogl, Rice, or anyone not under the NDA.... What do you think about the thing we are all assuming to be a focus assist lamp on the front of the K-7. Any chance it is actually part of the exposure system and works along with the TTL meter to determine the brightness of the scene in front of the camera? Is it a photometer that allows the camera to AUTOMATICALLY adjust exposure compensation? The cell determines the the area in front of the camera is bright, the TTL meter does its "18% grey thing", and then the camera automaically dials up the exposure? Or when it determines the scene to be dark, it dials the exposure down? Works like the room brightness eye found on modern TV sets? I thought of this after looking at Ned's latest blog posting. Note: I am not talking about white balance here. Yep, this isn't something that would show clearly on a prerelease specsheet either.

05-03-2009, 12:25 AM	#1753
KungPOW Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,699	Auto focus AV AT auto ISO etc... Auto Exposure Comp?

05-03-2009, 01:17 AM	#1754
dopeytree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Somerset, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 619	Originally posted by KungPOW Auto focus AV AT auto ISO etc... Auto Exposure Comp? Correct me if I'm wrong but surely all you have to do is press the green button or use the top display for the camera to tell you if its metered to what it thinks is correct metering or under/over tec? All they need to do is improve the metering a bit.

05-03-2009, 01:24 AM	#1755
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by KungPOW What do you think about the thing we are all assuming to be a focus assist lamp on the front of the K-7. Any chance it is actually part of the exposure system and works along with the TTL meter to determine the brightness of the scene in front of the camera? Is it a photometer that allows the camera to AUTOMATICALLY adjust exposure compensation? The cell determines the the area in front of the camera is bright, the TTL meter does its "18% grey thing", and then the camera automaically dials up the exposure? Or when it determines the scene to be dark, it dials the exposure down? Works like the room brightness eye found on modern TV sets? I thought of this after looking at Ned's latest blog posting. Note: I am not talking about white balance here. I don't know. It seems to me that K-7 has absolutely NEW exposure system. And even better than other brands have.