is this pic of K30D?

PNTXFTW12 · 05-17-2009, 10:30 AM

UGH why no 1080p

dave sz · 05-17-2009, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by PNTXFTW12

UGH why no 1080p

why do you need 1080p?

KungPOW · 05-17-2009, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by illdefined

Pentax's SR already supports 'twist' and X and Y at the same time. It was marketed as such with the K20

Not Z axis though, as that would affect focus.

Yes, thats 3 degrees of movement (yaw on Z axis, plus travel on X & Y). I'm wondering if Pentax has figured out how to cover the other 3, giving us SR for all 6 degrees of movement.

And, yes movement along the Z axis would affect focus. That is the point. If the camera shake is along the Z axis, then to keep the object in focus, you need to move the sensor along the Z axis.

This is just me thinking outloud, and speculating. I think that a full 6 degree movement SR system would be far more usefull then the ability to tilt/shift the sensor for creative control. Maybe the K-7 can do both?

mattdm · 05-17-2009, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by KungPOW

And, yes movement along the Z axis would affect focus. That is the point. If the camera shake is along the Z axis, then to keep the object in focus, you need to move the sensor along the Z axis.

You mean because the camera moves that much away from the subject? I think that'd only come into play if your "shake" is on the order of an inch or more.

Last edited by mattdm; 05-17-2009 at 10:51 AM.

blende8 · 05-17-2009, 10:42 AM

1/180 s flash sync is wrong.
1080i is also wrong.

ryan s · 05-17-2009, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by dave sz

why do you need 1080p?

Cause all the cool kids have it. Remember...there's no point in buying anything unless it's top of the line. 720p just doesn't work (for bragging rights, that is)

Originally posted by KungPOW

Yes, thats 3 degrees of movement (yaw on Z axis, plus travel on X & Y). I'm wondering if Pentax has figured out how to cover the other 3, giving us SR for all 6 degrees of movement.

And, yes movement along the Z axis would affect focus. That is the point. If the camera shake is along the Z axis, then to keep the object in focus, you need to move the sensor along the Z axis.

This is just me thinking outloud, and speculating. I think that a full 6 degree movement SR system would be far more usefull then the ability to tilt/shift the sensor for creative control. Maybe the K-7 can do both?

Z-axis correction would be great for macro. Yes...some of us hand-hold for macro :ugh:

Originally posted by blende8

1/180 s flash sync is wrong.
1080i is also wrong.

Yep

illdefined · 05-17-2009, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by janneman

If if so, it wouldn't be toop hard to make an "allignment correction" thingy... I mean, eliminate the tilt we see once in a while to very often...

automatic horizon leveling would be a cool feature (as long as it could also be turned off), but i doubt the SR system has such minute control. i think the mechanism is based on momentum, not gravity.

Kunzite · 05-17-2009, 10:49 AM

Z-axis correction would be an engineering nightmare. I hope Hoya's management won't ever decide for this feature, because all the engineers involved would immediately commit suicide.

**DAZ** · 05-17-2009, 10:50 AM

I am not saying the moving the sensor along the Z-axis is a good or bad thing only that it would not be 1:1 to the other side of the lens. So an extremely same movement of the sensor could translate to a relatively large change in focus.

DAZ

illdefined · 05-17-2009, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Are you sure about the twist thing? I believe that is a myth actually, as I have never seen any official data about that. (Though I haven't read that much about the k20 as I'm a k10 owner, but they said the same thing about the k10 in the beginning.)

yes, i've seen the official material in a couple of places, including the Magic Lantern books (does that count as official?). Pentax has been marketing it that way at least as long ago as your K10..

Pentax K10D Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

illdefined · 05-17-2009, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by KungPOW

Yes, thats 3 degrees of movement (yaw on Z axis, plus travel on X & Y). I'm wondering if Pentax has figured out how to cover the other 3, giving us SR for all 6 degrees of movement.

And, yes movement along the Z axis would affect focus. That is the point. If the camera shake is along the Z axis, then to keep the object in focus, you need to move the sensor along the Z axis.

This is just me thinking outloud, and speculating. I think that a full 6 degree movement SR system would be far more usefull then the ability to tilt/shift the sensor for creative control. Maybe the K-7 can do both?

the lens mount is a fixed distance from the sensor for a very essential reason. what you're describing is a job for continuos focus.

KungPOW · 05-17-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by mattdm

You mean because the camera moves that much away from the subject? I think that'd only come into play of your shake is on the order of an inch or more.

I think Z axis movement of the camera would produce the least affect on focus, when compaired to either X or Y movement. You are right, unless your DOF is very shallow, the camera would need to move a distance greater then the sensor could compensate before Z axis SR would be useful.

But, camera rotation on the X and the Y axis would cause image blur as easily as movement along X & Y.

And you cannot compensate for X/Y yaw without allowing the sensor to move on the Z axis. A simple linear movement would not be enough, the sensor would need to tilt side to side and up and down.

It is the addition of SR to compensate for X/Y axis camera rotation that I think would be the big step forward. Z axis movement compensation would be a minor addition.

jeffkrol · 05-17-2009, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by janneman

If if so, it wouldn't be toop hard to make an "allignment correction" thingy... I mean, eliminate the tilt we see once in a while to very often...

A little bubble level is cheaper.... as far as I know most (not all) of the "alignment thingy" is not the sensor nor body, just the mask...

**DAZ** · 05-17-2009, 11:12 AM

I thought I had been following this thread closely (but it is so long I may have missed it) but I don’t remember anything about this. This is from the flickr New Pentax K model pool. pentax_k_7_01 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!. What are the things above the flash that look like LEDs? Are they LEDs for low light focus assist?

DAZ

janneman · 05-17-2009, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

A little bubble level is cheaper.... as far as I know most (not all) of the "alignment thingy" is not the sensor nor body, just the mask...

You are right ofcourse. Stil, it would be usefull as it os probably the most made User Error. That is why tilt control is in just about every PP prgram,

Originally posted by illdefined

automatic horizon leveling would be a cool feature (as long as it could also be turned off), but i doubt the SR system has such minute control. i think the mechanism is based on momentum, not gravity.

yeah it is momentum based as far as I know but it could be "taught"to respond to camera movement as a result of pressing the button based on movement.
Then IF we get GPS in a camera it may be able to respond to that or maybe somewhere deep in the body is a small gyroscope

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05-17-2009, 10:30 AM	#3106
PNTXFTW12 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vaughan, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 269	UGH why no 1080p

05-17-2009, 10:33 AM	#3107
dave sz Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: carpentersville, IL Posts: 693	Originally posted by PNTXFTW12 UGH why no 1080p why do you need 1080p?

05-17-2009, 10:35 AM	#3108
KungPOW Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,699	Originally posted by illdefined Pentax's SR already supports 'twist' and X and Y at the same time. It was marketed as such with the K20 Not Z axis though, as that would affect focus. Yes, thats 3 degrees of movement (yaw on Z axis, plus travel on X & Y). I'm wondering if Pentax has figured out how to cover the other 3, giving us SR for all 6 degrees of movement. And, yes movement along the Z axis would affect focus. That is the point. If the camera shake is along the Z axis, then to keep the object in focus, you need to move the sensor along the Z axis. This is just me thinking outloud, and speculating. I think that a full 6 degree movement SR system would be far more usefull then the ability to tilt/shift the sensor for creative control. Maybe the K-7 can do both?

05-17-2009, 10:39 AM	#3109
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by KungPOW And, yes movement along the Z axis would affect focus. That is the point. If the camera shake is along the Z axis, then to keep the object in focus, you need to move the sensor along the Z axis. You mean because the camera moves that much away from the subject? I think that'd only come into play if your "shake" is on the order of an inch or more. Last edited by mattdm; 05-17-2009 at 10:51 AM.

05-17-2009, 10:42 AM	#3110
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	1/180 s flash sync is wrong. 1080i is also wrong.

05-17-2009, 10:46 AM	#3111
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Originally posted by dave sz why do you need 1080p? Cause all the cool kids have it. Remember...there's no point in buying anything unless it's top of the line. 720p just doesn't work (for bragging rights, that is) Originally posted by KungPOW Yes, thats 3 degrees of movement (yaw on Z axis, plus travel on X & Y). I'm wondering if Pentax has figured out how to cover the other 3, giving us SR for all 6 degrees of movement. And, yes movement along the Z axis would affect focus. That is the point. If the camera shake is along the Z axis, then to keep the object in focus, you need to move the sensor along the Z axis. This is just me thinking outloud, and speculating. I think that a full 6 degree movement SR system would be far more usefull then the ability to tilt/shift the sensor for creative control. Maybe the K-7 can do both? Z-axis correction would be great for macro. Yes...some of us hand-hold for macro :ugh: Originally posted by blende8 1/180 s flash sync is wrong. 1080i is also wrong. Yep

05-17-2009, 10:48 AM	#3112
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by janneman If if so, it wouldn't be toop hard to make an "allignment correction" thingy... I mean, eliminate the tilt we see once in a while to very often... automatic horizon leveling would be a cool feature (as long as it could also be turned off), but i doubt the SR system has such minute control. i think the mechanism is based on momentum, not gravity.

05-17-2009, 10:49 AM	#3113
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Z-axis correction would be an engineering nightmare. I hope Hoya's management won't ever decide for this feature, because all the engineers involved would immediately commit suicide.

05-17-2009, 10:50 AM	#3114
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	I am not saying the moving the sensor along the Z-axis is a good or bad thing only that it would not be 1:1 to the other side of the lens. So an extremely same movement of the sensor could translate to a relatively large change in focus. DAZ

05-17-2009, 10:54 AM	#3115
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by Gimbal Are you sure about the twist thing? I believe that is a myth actually, as I have never seen any official data about that. (Though I haven't read that much about the k20 as I'm a k10 owner, but they said the same thing about the k10 in the beginning.) yes, i've seen the official material in a couple of places, including the Magic Lantern books (does that count as official?). Pentax has been marketing it that way at least as long ago as your K10.. Pentax K10D Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

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05-17-2009, 10:59 AM	#3116
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by KungPOW Yes, thats 3 degrees of movement (yaw on Z axis, plus travel on X & Y). I'm wondering if Pentax has figured out how to cover the other 3, giving us SR for all 6 degrees of movement. And, yes movement along the Z axis would affect focus. That is the point. If the camera shake is along the Z axis, then to keep the object in focus, you need to move the sensor along the Z axis. This is just me thinking outloud, and speculating. I think that a full 6 degree movement SR system would be far more usefull then the ability to tilt/shift the sensor for creative control. Maybe the K-7 can do both? the lens mount is a fixed distance from the sensor for a very essential reason. what you're describing is a job for continuos focus.

05-17-2009, 11:02 AM	#3117
KungPOW Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,699	Originally posted by mattdm You mean because the camera moves that much away from the subject? I think that'd only come into play of your shake is on the order of an inch or more. I think Z axis movement of the camera would produce the least affect on focus, when compaired to either X or Y movement. You are right, unless your DOF is very shallow, the camera would need to move a distance greater then the sensor could compensate before Z axis SR would be useful. But, camera rotation on the X and the Y axis would cause image blur as easily as movement along X & Y. And you cannot compensate for X/Y yaw without allowing the sensor to move on the Z axis. A simple linear movement would not be enough, the sensor would need to tilt side to side and up and down. It is the addition of SR to compensate for X/Y axis camera rotation that I think would be the big step forward. Z axis movement compensation would be a minor addition.

05-17-2009, 11:08 AM	#3118
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by janneman If if so, it wouldn't be toop hard to make an "allignment correction" thingy... I mean, eliminate the tilt we see once in a while to very often... A little bubble level is cheaper.... as far as I know most (not all) of the "alignment thingy" is not the sensor nor body, just the mask...

05-17-2009, 11:12 AM	#3119
DAZ Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Everett, WA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 744	I thought I had been following this thread closely (but it is so long I may have missed it) but I don’t remember anything about this. This is from the flickr New Pentax K model pool. pentax_k_7_01 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!. What are the things above the flash that look like LEDs? Are they LEDs for low light focus assist? DAZ

05-17-2009, 11:14 AM	#3120
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Originally posted by jeffkrol A little bubble level is cheaper.... as far as I know most (not all) of the "alignment thingy" is not the sensor nor body, just the mask... You are right ofcourse. Stil, it would be usefull as it os probably the most made User Error. That is why tilt control is in just about every PP prgram, Originally posted by illdefined automatic horizon leveling would be a cool feature (as long as it could also be turned off), but i doubt the SR system has such minute control. i think the mechanism is based on momentum, not gravity. yeah it is momentum based as far as I know but it could be "taught"to respond to camera movement as a result of pressing the button based on movement. Then IF we get GPS in a camera it may be able to respond to that or maybe somewhere deep in the body is a small gyroscope