is this pic of K30D?

filorp · 05-18-2009, 06:09 PM

There is 1 thing which is buzzing in my mind right now: if there is 1/250 or 1/180. If the second one, its not improvements for photographers but only for occasional shutters and incidental clickers - it's mean pentax doesn't take seriuosly photographers. I can understand innovations... but if it is innovation for photographer... peopple there are some rules... you cannot take good pictures of a bride with the beautifull background of window without at least 1/250 synch speed...
1day4hours49min left

falconeye · 05-18-2009, 06:10 PM

In an attempt to sort out the possibilities with regard to the flash sync time, I computed the respective widths between shutter curtains:

Width between shutter curtains (vertical shutter):

K20D: APS-C, 1/4000, 1/180X: 0.70 mm
K-7 A: APS-C, 1/8000, 1/250X: 0.49 mm
K-7 B: APS-C, 1/8000, 1/180X: 0.35 mm
MX: VF, 1/1000, 1/60X: 1.44 mm
LX: VF, 1/2000, 1/75X: 0.9 mm
PZ-10: VF, 1/2000, 1/100X: 1.2 mm
PZ-1: VF, 1/8000, 1/250X: 0.75 mm

So, even 1/250X would be extraordinarily slow. So I assume that the flash sync speed is 1/250s at most. 1/180s probably is an mistake. Because it may be more expensive to make such a narrow gap between curtains than to make it faster.

Skyntara · 05-18-2009, 06:16 PM

Does anyone know if the BG4 will be the same magnesium alloy as the body?

Clem Nichols · 05-18-2009, 06:21 PM

And the basis for my answer to that question cannot be found in what information is thus far available. I'm presently using a K10D which for 90% of what I shoot (landscapes, macros, a few portraits, and still lifes) is all the camera I need. Unfortunately, it's the other 10%, which are action shots of my grandkids playing soccer, baseball, and basketball (and which are the ones that will be treasured most in the years to come) where the K10 is less than adequate. I don't need 1/8000 second shutter speed, video recording capability, a larger viewfinder, or some of the other new tweaks which are promised for the K-7. The two things I'm most interested in are the camera's ability to autofocus continuously and its IQ at higher ISO settings. Obviously, I'll have to wait a bit longer to find out about those. If Pentax comes through with autofocusing comparable to the D300 then I'll pull out my wallet in a heartbeat.

CN

jeffkrol · 05-18-2009, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

In an attempt to sort out the possibilities with regard to the flash sync time, I computed the respective widths between shutter curtains:

Width between shutter curtains (vertical shutter):

K20D: APS-C, 1/4000, 1/180X: 0.70 mm
K-7 A: APS-C, 1/8000, 1/250X: 0.49 mm
K-7 B: APS-C, 1/8000, 1/180X: 0.35 mm
MX: VF, 1/1000, 1/60X: 1.44 mm
LX: VF, 1/2000, 1/75X: 0.9 mm
PZ-10: VF, 1/2000, 1/100X: 1.2 mm
PZ-1: VF, 1/8000, 1/250X: 0.75 mm

So, even 1/250X would be extraordinarily slow. So I assume that the flash sync speed is 1/250s at most. 1/180s probably is an mistake. Because it may be more expensive to make such a narrow gap between curtains than to make it faster.

Shutter blade gap is irrelevant, You really need an electronic shutter. (Flash durations are in the 1/1000's sec range) That's really where the high synch's come from.
At great personal cost I present this link

Flash Sync Speed
The sync speed is the fastest speed at which the entire film or CCD can be open to light. This is determined by how fast the shutter curtains move.
At speeds faster than the sync speed the slit that travels across the film or CCD narrows. If you used flash at faster than the sync speed (you can't do this on modern cameras) you would only expose the part of the film behind the slit to the flash.
Nikon has done the world a great favor in the D1, D1X, D1H and D70 cameras by adding an electronic shutter to take care of the faster speeds. By doing this the sync speed becomes unlimited. The only reason the D1, D1X and D1H (and for all I know the D70) limit the speed to 1/500 is because of the loss of efficiency above that speed for shoe mounted flash.
Amateur digital SLR cameras omit the electronic shutter and are limited by the mechanical focal plane shutter.

Point-and-shoot digital cameras usually sync at high speeds like 1/500 because they also have electronic shutters.

Leaf shutters as used in professional cameras like the Hasselblad and large format cameras can sync at any speed. This is because their leaves open completely at all speeds, at which point the flash is fired. There is no slit or partial opening at the fastest speeds.
Personal note: If Pentax has all the movie bells and whistles they probably added an electronic shutter. MANUAL synch speed would be irrelevant.

Yohan Pamudji · 05-18-2009, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

Shutter blade gap is irrelevant, You really need an electronic shutter. That's really where the high synch's come from.
At great personal cost I present this link

Flash Sync Speed
The sync speed is the fastest speed at which the entire film or CCD can be open to light. This is determined by how fast the shutter curtains move.
At speeds faster than the sync speed the slit that travels across the film or CCD narrows. If you used flash at faster than the sync speed (you can't do this on modern cameras) you would only expose the part of the film behind the slit to the flash.
Nikon has done the world a great favor in the D1, D1X, D1H and D70 cameras by adding an electronic shutter to take care of the faster speeds. By doing this the sync speed becomes unlimited. The only reason the D1, D1X and D1H (and for all I know the D70) limit the speed to 1/500 is because of the loss of efficiency above that speed for shoe mounted flash.
Amateur digital SLR cameras omit the electronic shutter and are limited by the mechanical focal plane shutter.

Point-and-shoot digital cameras usually sync at high speeds like 1/500 because they also have electronic shutters.

Leaf shutters as used in professional cameras like the Hasselblad and large format cameras can sync at any speed. This is because their leaves open completely at all speeds, at which point the flash is fired. There is no slit or partial opening at the fastest speeds.
Personal note: If Pentax has all the movie bells and whistles they probably added an electronic shutter. MANUAL synch speed would be irrelevant.

No can do with a CMOS sensor. CCDs can do electronic shutter for high flash sync, but CMOS can't.

falconeye · 05-18-2009, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

Shutter blade gap is irrelevant, You really need an electronic shutter.

That is all correct and interesting.

But I actually only tried to determine the most likely mechanical shutter sync speed in the K-7. I cannot see how your post helps in this regard.

Originally posted by jeffkrol

MANUAL synch speed would be irrelevant.

Almost.
There still would be an issue with long tele lenses imaging straight vertical lines as curvy because of shake during sync time, despite a short shutter speed.

GLXLR · 05-18-2009, 06:56 PM

It says the K-7 has a 14.6MP sensor, but is it the same as the one in the K20D or a newly developed one?

falconeye · 05-18-2009, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by GLXLR

It says the K-7 has a 14.6MP sensor, but is it the same as the one in the K20D or a newly developed one?

The press text says:

Quote:

The K-7 incorporates a newly developed CMOS image sensor measuring 23.4mm by 15.6mm and featuring a high-speed, four-channel image data readout.

But AFAIK, its specifications are identical to the K20D sensor, incl. ISO range 100 - 3200/6400.

creampuff · 05-18-2009, 07:03 PM

All revealed...

Pentax K-7, It IS Here! - ClubSNAP Photography Forums

illdefined · 05-18-2009, 07:10 PM

MUCH more revealed here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60673-hands-pentax-k7.html

thank you skamaraju.

heliphoto · 05-18-2009, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by mysterick

and it could be like Hotel California, you can't check out!

More pedantry: I believe you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave

...

illdefined · 05-18-2009, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by illdefined

MUCH more revealed here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60673-hands-pentax-k7.html

thank you skamaraju.

Google only does a decent translation. native chinese speakers, please HELP:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60673-hands-pentax-k7.html

specifically the talk of "LCD viewfinder?"

Art Vandelay II · 05-18-2009, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by creampuff

All revealed...

Pentax K-7, It IS Here! - ClubSNAP Photography Forums

Looks like the same specs RH posted unless I'm missing something. Unless there's some wonderful feature that doesn't show up in the spec sheet can someone explain to me what Yvon Bourque was talking about when he said everyone else will have to play catch up? It looks as though Pentax has caught back up and possibly even moved slightly ahead of the D300 (the best current cropped sensor camera), but I hardly see anything that is going to cause Canikon to lay in bed awake at night. Pentax really should have tried to reign in the hype created by some of the people with NDA's.

The K7 looks like a wonderful camera, Pentax's best camera for sure; and it is obviously all the camera anyone really needs. But The D300, 50D, E-30, etc are really all anyone needs. I was hoping for something that made me drool like a Ducati 1198R does.

nosnoop · 05-18-2009, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by illdefined

Google only does a decent translation. native chinese speakers, please HELP:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60673-hands-pentax-k7.html
specifically the talk of "LCD viewfinder?"

There is not much new info in the text. He was comparing the viewfinder area vs Live View LCD and he finds them to be the same, thus confirming the 100% coverage.

05-18-2009, 06:10 PM	#3422
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Flash sync time In an attempt to sort out the possibilities with regard to the flash sync time, I computed the respective widths between shutter curtains: Width between shutter curtains (vertical shutter): K20D: APS-C, 1/4000, 1/180X: 0.70 mm K-7 A: APS-C, 1/8000, 1/250X: 0.49 mm K-7 B: APS-C, 1/8000, 1/180X: 0.35 mm MX: VF, 1/1000, 1/60X: 1.44 mm LX: VF, 1/2000, 1/75X: 0.9 mm PZ-10: VF, 1/2000, 1/100X: 1.2 mm PZ-1: VF, 1/8000, 1/250X: 0.75 mm So, even 1/250X would be extraordinarily slow. So I assume that the flash sync speed is 1/250s at most. 1/180s probably is an mistake. Because it may be more expensive to make such a narrow gap between curtains than to make it faster.

05-18-2009, 06:16 PM	#3423
Skyntara Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 157	Battery Grip Material Does anyone know if the BG4 will be the same magnesium alloy as the body?

05-18-2009, 06:21 PM	#3424
Clem Nichols Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Munfordville, Ky. Photos: Gallery Posts: 370	To buy or not to buy. That is the question. And the basis for my answer to that question cannot be found in what information is thus far available. I'm presently using a K10D which for 90% of what I shoot (landscapes, macros, a few portraits, and still lifes) is all the camera I need. Unfortunately, it's the other 10%, which are action shots of my grandkids playing soccer, baseball, and basketball (and which are the ones that will be treasured most in the years to come) where the K10 is less than adequate. I don't need 1/8000 second shutter speed, video recording capability, a larger viewfinder, or some of the other new tweaks which are promised for the K-7. The two things I'm most interested in are the camera's ability to autofocus continuously and its IQ at higher ISO settings. Obviously, I'll have to wait a bit longer to find out about those. If Pentax comes through with autofocusing comparable to the D300 then I'll pull out my wallet in a heartbeat. CN

05-18-2009, 06:40 PM	#3425
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by falconeye In an attempt to sort out the possibilities with regard to the flash sync time, I computed the respective widths between shutter curtains: Width between shutter curtains (vertical shutter): K20D: APS-C, 1/4000, 1/180X: 0.70 mm K-7 A: APS-C, 1/8000, 1/250X: 0.49 mm K-7 B: APS-C, 1/8000, 1/180X: 0.35 mm MX: VF, 1/1000, 1/60X: 1.44 mm LX: VF, 1/2000, 1/75X: 0.9 mm PZ-10: VF, 1/2000, 1/100X: 1.2 mm PZ-1: VF, 1/8000, 1/250X: 0.75 mm So, even 1/250X would be extraordinarily slow. So I assume that the flash sync speed is 1/250s at most. 1/180s probably is an mistake. Because it may be more expensive to make such a narrow gap between curtains than to make it faster. Shutter blade gap is irrelevant, You really need an electronic shutter. (Flash durations are in the 1/1000's sec range) That's really where the high synch's come from. At great personal cost I present this link Flash Sync Speed The sync speed is the fastest speed at which the entire film or CCD can be open to light. This is determined by how fast the shutter curtains move. At speeds faster than the sync speed the slit that travels across the film or CCD narrows. If you used flash at faster than the sync speed (you can't do this on modern cameras) you would only expose the part of the film behind the slit to the flash. Nikon has done the world a great favor in the D1, D1X, D1H and D70 cameras by adding an electronic shutter to take care of the faster speeds. By doing this the sync speed becomes unlimited. The only reason the D1, D1X and D1H (and for all I know the D70) limit the speed to 1/500 is because of the loss of efficiency above that speed for shoe mounted flash. Amateur digital SLR cameras omit the electronic shutter and are limited by the mechanical focal plane shutter. Point-and-shoot digital cameras usually sync at high speeds like 1/500 because they also have electronic shutters. Leaf shutters as used in professional cameras like the Hasselblad and large format cameras can sync at any speed. This is because their leaves open completely at all speeds, at which point the flash is fired. There is no slit or partial opening at the fastest speeds. Personal note: If Pentax has all the movie bells and whistles they probably added an electronic shutter. MANUAL synch speed would be irrelevant. Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-18-2009 at 06:46 PM.

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05-18-2009, 06:09 PM	#3421
filorp Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 398	There is 1 thing which is buzzing in my mind right now: if there is 1/250 or 1/180. If the second one, its not improvements for photographers but only for occasional shutters and incidental clickers - it's mean pentax doesn't take seriuosly photographers. I can understand innovations... but if it is innovation for photographer... peopple there are some rules... you cannot take good pictures of a bride with the beautifull background of window without at least 1/250 synch speed... 1day4hours49min left

05-18-2009, 06:45 PM	#3426
Yohan Pamudji Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Mississippi Posts: 184	Originally posted by jeffkrol Shutter blade gap is irrelevant, You really need an electronic shutter. That's really where the high synch's come from. At great personal cost I present this link Flash Sync Speed The sync speed is the fastest speed at which the entire film or CCD can be open to light. This is determined by how fast the shutter curtains move. At speeds faster than the sync speed the slit that travels across the film or CCD narrows. If you used flash at faster than the sync speed (you can't do this on modern cameras) you would only expose the part of the film behind the slit to the flash. Nikon has done the world a great favor in the D1, D1X, D1H and D70 cameras by adding an electronic shutter to take care of the faster speeds. By doing this the sync speed becomes unlimited. The only reason the D1, D1X and D1H (and for all I know the D70) limit the speed to 1/500 is because of the loss of efficiency above that speed for shoe mounted flash. Amateur digital SLR cameras omit the electronic shutter and are limited by the mechanical focal plane shutter. Point-and-shoot digital cameras usually sync at high speeds like 1/500 because they also have electronic shutters. Leaf shutters as used in professional cameras like the Hasselblad and large format cameras can sync at any speed. This is because their leaves open completely at all speeds, at which point the flash is fired. There is no slit or partial opening at the fastest speeds. Personal note: If Pentax has all the movie bells and whistles they probably added an electronic shutter. MANUAL synch speed would be irrelevant. No can do with a CMOS sensor. CCDs can do electronic shutter for high flash sync, but CMOS can't.

05-18-2009, 06:48 PM	#3427
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by jeffkrol Shutter blade gap is irrelevant, You really need an electronic shutter. That is all correct and interesting. But I actually only tried to determine the most likely mechanical shutter sync speed in the K-7. I cannot see how your post helps in this regard. Originally posted by jeffkrol MANUAL synch speed would be irrelevant. Almost. There still would be an issue with long tele lenses imaging straight vertical lines as curvy because of shake during sync time, despite a short shutter speed.

05-18-2009, 06:56 PM	#3428
GLXLR Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sugar Land, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 684	It says the K-7 has a 14.6MP sensor, but is it the same as the one in the K20D or a newly developed one?

05-18-2009, 07:00 PM	#3429
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by GLXLR It says the K-7 has a 14.6MP sensor, but is it the same as the one in the K20D or a newly developed one? The press text says: Quote: The K-7 incorporates a newly developed CMOS image sensor measuring 23.4mm by 15.6mm and featuring a high-speed, four-channel image data readout. But AFAIK, its specifications are identical to the K20D sensor, incl. ISO range 100 - 3200/6400.

05-18-2009, 07:03 PM	#3430
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	All revealed... Pentax K-7, It IS Here! - ClubSNAP Photography Forums

05-18-2009, 07:10 PM	#3431
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	MUCH more revealed here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60673-hands-pentax-k7.html thank you skamaraju.

05-18-2009, 07:15 PM	#3432
heliphoto Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Region 5 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,539	Originally posted by mysterick and it could be like Hotel California, you can't check out! More pedantry: I believe you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave ...

05-18-2009, 07:25 PM	#3433
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by illdefined MUCH more revealed here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60673-hands-pentax-k7.html thank you skamaraju. Google only does a decent translation. native chinese speakers, please HELP: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60673-hands-pentax-k7.html specifically the talk of "LCD viewfinder?"

05-18-2009, 07:26 PM	#3434
Art Vandelay II Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 886	Originally posted by creampuff All revealed... Pentax K-7, It IS Here! - ClubSNAP Photography Forums Looks like the same specs RH posted unless I'm missing something. Unless there's some wonderful feature that doesn't show up in the spec sheet can someone explain to me what Yvon Bourque was talking about when he said everyone else will have to play catch up? It looks as though Pentax has caught back up and possibly even moved slightly ahead of the D300 (the best current cropped sensor camera), but I hardly see anything that is going to cause Canikon to lay in bed awake at night. Pentax really should have tried to reign in the hype created by some of the people with NDA's. The K7 looks like a wonderful camera, Pentax's best camera for sure; and it is obviously all the camera anyone really needs. But The D300, 50D, E-30, etc are really all anyone needs. I was hoping for something that made me drool like a Ducati 1198R does.

05-18-2009, 07:27 PM	#3435
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by illdefined Google only does a decent translation. native chinese speakers, please HELP: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/60673-hands-pentax-k7.html specifically the talk of "LCD viewfinder?" There is not much new info in the text. He was comparing the viewfinder area vs Live View LCD and he finds them to be the same, thus confirming the 100% coverage.