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04-28-2009, 12:47 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by cateto Quote
Well, I see no fun whatsoever in getting disappointed for no reason at all.

I do find fun in getting hints of info (I try to contribute to this little game in my blog), but getting everything with many grains of salt. THAT is fun.

But posting something like the first post here, when NOTHING is known for sure?
That is fun???

Not in my book, at least.
Pentax: Cameras for the Glass Half Empty Photographic Community.

04-28-2009, 12:57 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
This car company makes a really great family car. It would be perfect for my needs. Too bad the company doesn't also make construction trucks. That would make me a lot more likely to buy one of their cars. 'm never going to buy a construction truck, but it makes me feel good to buy from a company that really knows about hauling gravel around. Because that's where all of the prestige is.
Seriously, a lot of Swedes used to buy SAAB cars because they build the Swedish jet fighters...there were even a TV-advertisement with some stunt people driving the SAAB 9000 on two weels and such tricks, a whole bunch of cars turning, going up on two weels, down again, syncronised, while the camera flipped back and forth between the cars and the same number of jet fighters doing syncronised sort of "similar" manouveres...might have sold, what do I know (and now GM has anyway runned SAAB bancrupt).
04-28-2009, 01:10 AM   #33
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Be patient wait a week or two, You will NOT be disappointed
04-28-2009, 01:12 AM   #34
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everybody tend to forget that for pentax, 35mm is not considered as "pro" format. pentax representatives said on numerous occasions that they consider 35mm format as an amateur format, and real pros should work with medium-format cameras.

i remember that medium format system is already announced - so we'll get "pro" body and lenses - 645D system. much more "pro" than anything canikon ever made.

04-28-2009, 01:28 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by joerg Quote
I am like everyone else, and can hardly wait for the first sample images from this camera, but the more I read the more disappointed I am.

How on earth can you be dissapointed on rumors!!! You sound like the old ladies who are dissapointed because the Swedish crown princess haven't got married or pregnant yet despite all rumors in the tabloids. And when finally, the marriage date is settled, you have already been dissapointed for so long...

I kept telling myself that if Pentax can produce a great pro body to rival even some of my 5DmkII features then I would return in a second.

I know a lot of users are delighted to see a small durable body that will suit their needs better than the current K20D. However, I would have to assume there are a few that are feeling very neglected right now. This is obviously not Pentax's fault, they are simply trying to differentiate themselves from the pack, but I believe it will come at a cost.

The idea of a compact high performance APS-C seems like an incredible direction for a company like Canon or Nikon who already offer an upgrade path for potential buyers, or pros looking for that compact body that do not want to invest in a new system. However, I look at Pentax and the K20 and think to myself it was the perfect body in its class, if only there were a class above it.

This is an argument I don't understand. Pentax gear doesn't cost that much, and second hand prices are quite stable at least for the good stuff, so the loss between what you payed and what you get if you sell out can't be that bad. Compare to renting it a year or two. If you really are a pro most countries legislation should offer you a way to write it off against your income.

Based on the specs and things we have seen so far, I am more and more inclined to believe that this camera has no WOW features, or new AF system, or even amazing new Samsung sensor.

Again, what you heard is rumors,why bother to get dissapointed?

From the sound of things it will be no more than a K20D shrunk in size with a retro body and the K-Ms AF.... I sorely hope I am wrong for my own sake, but that is not to say Pentax will do poorly with such a body. The K20D is still a competitive system in the same areas it was when released, and a smaller one with a greater emphasis on its weather sealing, if marketed correctly could be a boon for the company. The problem is the camera will do nothing to stem the tide of users like myself going to Nikon Canon and Sony for new bodies.

Frankly I don't think this stem is that big. And it consist mainly of people who have somehow managed to convince them that they can't buy and APS-C bodies, DA limiteds or DA* lenses or even plain DA lenses because if there is ever a FF Pentax they might not be able ot use them and that would be so awfull so they just hold on to their old gear year after year...and because Pentax have not made any money on them in this century, they will loose no money when they leave for Canikony, so why bother?

Pro or not, you are a consumer for Pentax only if you buy things from them. If people like you baught the K20D with some DA*'s and ltd's instead of K-m's with kit zoom, Pentax would get a signal that they have more users in their current upper end, and they would get more capital, and maybe that FF camera would come 2010 rather than 2015.

In my mind the only market Pentax can hope to capture with this camera is the average Olympus user.

This was no way meant to be a bash on Pentax, I love their lenses, and the weather sealing the system offers, not to mention the features of the K20D in many ways still out do my 5dmkII. I guess I was looking for a reason to come back to Pentax, and I was wondering if I am alone in my current thoughts.
I was almost about to suggest you get some prosac, but that would be rude, but it sort of explain how tired I am with this sort of posts. What I will do instead is to point out that outside the 645 and 67 market Pentax pro share was always small (some nature photog's when LX was a competable weather sealed system, like Matthias Klum who started as Pentax sponsored with LX cameras in the Amazonas). Already way back on the spotmatic time, market appears to have been differentiated so that Nikon had most of the pro's with the F system and Pentax most of the photo enthusiasts. And so it have stayed (though Canon sailed up and passed Nikon), except that then Pentax sold more bodies than Nikon and Canon together. Today they have a few percent of the market, and a research budget accordingly. To me it appears that you are no longer enthustiastic enough for Pentax. So what is wrong with geting a Canon and put your Pentax lenses on it, like Risehigh?

My appologises if this sounds hard on you, but there is just way to many over-pesimistic posts like yours.
04-28-2009, 01:40 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by joerg Quote
Based on the specs and things we have seen so far, I am more and more inclined to believe that this camera has no WOW features, or new AF system, or even amazing new Samsung sensor.
The AF system is upgraded and the live-view mode now has working autofocus.
The Samsung sensor is upgraded to, a Mk II-version of the sensor used in the K20D.

QuoteQuote:
From the sound of things it will be no more than a K20D shrunk in size with a retro body and the K-Ms AF....
Not true. The body will not be a retro-design.
The AF is more advanced than the AF in the K-m, and more advanced than the AF in the K20D. It is still SAFOX, but developed further.
04-28-2009, 01:43 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by joerg Quote
I hope to eat my own words and watch the K-7 defy the general boundaries APS-C and smaller bodies impose much like the D300 did at launch, but I fear that Pentax simply could not have had the means to make a new sensor, new AF system, and all new design at the same time.
The sensor is not entirely new, but it is a new version with improved performance. Circuit board design is shrinked which means shorter signal paths and also less surface noise coming from the circuit board. Also less power hungry and more effecient.
AF system is a development of the SAFOX, more advanced than the K20D AF system and finally with working AF in live view move.
04-28-2009, 01:51 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by joerg Quote
I do hope this is not the K20s replacement, Pentax officially stated that it was not meant to replace the K20D.
Pentax said that the new camera is not a direct replacement to the K20D, it is a "different concept". Actually, this new camera is more advanced than the K20D so it targets users above the K20D. That is why it is not a direct replacement to the K20D.
Just as the MZ-S wasn't a replacement to the MZ-5, it was a different camera.

QuoteQuote:
I am just worried that what they meant by that was that the two cameras are not necessarily similar, but that says nothing about whether they will replace the K20D.
The K20D won't have a direct replacement. Pentax had an idea of having 4 DSLR's in the lineup, but considering the economic decline in the world it is simply too much risk involved in having so many DSLR's in the lineup. It will be K-m, the K-7 and a new camera in-between the K-m and the K-7.

QuoteQuote:
I personally do not need FPS, but ergonomics is key, as is a wide selection of primes, and extremely reliable performance in low light with no sacrifice to image quality.
Ergonomics will be even better with the new camera since it has more direct access to certain functions without the need for a Fn-menu.

Pentax still has a wide selection of primes and keeps expanding them.

Performance in low light will be more reliable than the K20D with better AF system, and less noise at high ISO.

QuoteQuote:
Personally the K-7 just seems to lack that pro aura that some of the other cameras have
The K-7 will be a pro APS-C camera in a compact size, and will perform as one can expects from a pro APS-C camera. However, it will not be a 24x36 because the market is too small for a 24x36 - and Pentax can't afford to have lens series for different formats. Most of the APS-C lenses will not perform good on 24x36 bodies.

04-28-2009, 01:53 AM   #39
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[QUOTE=joerg;574017]It is good that from the looks of it most Pentax users are excited about the direction of the K-7, I am interested to see how the camera positions itself in the market.
[quote]

The position is pro-level, metal body, weather sealing, pro features but in a compact size.

QuoteQuote:
I think the thing I dread most at this point is the fact that my mind will keep telling me this camera will feel horrendous in my hands like every olympus I have ever used has
If the camera is found to be too small, a new battery grip is being developed for the new camera and will be available at the time of release of the camera. This accessory helps the ergonomics if having large hands wanting a big body.
04-28-2009, 01:55 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by joerg Quote
So the question at hand is do you think another APS-C camera smaller than the K20 can help you get there. Obviously the camera has very little to do with whether you are pro or not, but at the same time if you have ever worked with a D3 or a 1D you know what a pro level sports or wedding system feels like. It is a totally different experience, everything from the sound of the shutter, to the faith that you have in the system, it all screams professional grade. Pentax's consumer grade cameras, are still in my opinion the highest quality in their class and at launch are more than competitive, but can the K-7 inspire the same faith that other pro cameras do?
The K-7 will not be "just another small APS-C". It is a pro level APS-C in a compact size, and it will be alone in this market segment. Not even Olympus has small pro-level cameras, and their 4/3 sensor is smaller than APS-C...
04-28-2009, 01:57 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
As far as the K20 goes, it is a good camera for what it is, but it does now need a performance upgrade, as the cameras it is competing against have moved forwards, and a new camera needs to be released with higher performance specifications.
Whether this new camera is that camera, or if the rumours of a K20 upgrade that is seperate from this new camera are true, we'll see soon enough.
Pentax representatives has said that the new camera is more advanced than the K20D and gives a higher performance with even better image quality. Pentax has even stated close to 24x36 image quality.

Of course, tests will show if those are just marketing words or if they have some truth in them - but Pentax is obviously very proud of the new camera and has high expectations.
04-28-2009, 02:09 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
It will be K-m, the K-7 and a new camera in-between the K-m and the K-7.
yes. later, this year, i think before X-mas.
04-28-2009, 02:18 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
The position is pro-level, metal body, weather sealing, pro features but in a compact size.
Is the ”metal body” the usual rumour, or do you know it for a fact? (And I mean visible metal, not metal inside with plastic on the outside).
04-28-2009, 02:48 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Ergonomics will be even better with the new camera since it has more direct access to certain functions without the need for a Fn-menu.
Somehow, I doubt that
More direct access doesn't always mean better ergonomics; I'm quite worried about this aspect, for the new model. The K20D interface is a very good balance between control and ergonomics; the buttons are logically organized, you have access to basic settings (yes, including ISO) when you need it - and can make such changes while looking through the camera.
I'm afraid the new camera could be a step behind. More direct-access buttons, bigger LCD (let's assume this), smaller camera - well, something must go.
But of course, I shouldn't speak without holding the camera in my hands

Re. the "K-7" (or whatever name it will have), I would also suggest not to expect miracles.
An evolution of the K20D, with a different body, improved performance and many more "bells and whistles", yes. Something vastly superior, or on a different level? No way, I would say. The K20D is a very good camera, anyway; except for speed, it's very competitive with the other APS-C models.
I also don't believe in a "Limited" camera, not in this case. Limited means metal, precision machining and a classic style&feeling. Probably a very expensive concept, if they were to apply it to a camera.
04-28-2009, 02:59 AM   #45
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K-7 is the camera which tell us "Take me, take me!!!".
K20D is good, but K-7 is MUCH better. K20D is the thing of the past IMO.
More direct-access buttons is the easiest way to use camera.

I think K-7's body is the best BODY in Pentax digital history. Real machine for real men.
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