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04-29-2009, 10:52 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philippos Quote
Then why don't you go buy this and leave us fools alone? (great lens by the way - almost as good as the one in my $60 P&S)

WE WANT ADVANCED VIDEO OPTIONS IN OUR NEXT PENTAX AND IT'S SUCCESSORS!!!
Cause I am not who wants video shooting with my DSLR. I though you were the one looking for high quality video shooting, so I justed threw some pointers in the right direction.

I still think pretending to get good video from a DSLR, is like pretending to get toasts out of your microwave oven. Yes, with the proper gadgets you may get decent toast with a microwave oven, but I think a $12 toaster from K-mart will always do a better job.

04-29-2009, 10:54 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Cause I am not who wants video shooting with my DSLR. I though you were the one looking for high quality video shooting, so I justed threw some pointers in the right direction.

I still think pretending to get good video from a DSLR, is like pretending to get toasts out of your microwave oven. Yes, with the proper gadgets you may get decent toast with a microwave oven, but I think a $12 toaster from K-mart will always do a better job.
People said the same about AF when it came... (not that it means you're wrong, jus that IMO it is a bit early to say so).
04-29-2009, 11:12 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
I guess this one will do must of your requirments:
HDR-XR100 | HDR-XR100 80GB HD HandycamŽ Camcorder | Sony | SonyStyle USA

With a lens equivalent to 42 to 492 mm, at f/1.8 - f/2.2 (hard to beat even with $3000 plus glass for any DSLR)

Full 1980 x 1080 hd

Sound? How about 5.1 Dolby Surround.....

Price: Sony Cameras - Handycam HDR-XR100 80GB Hard Drive HD Camcorder - HDRXR100

I guess I missed my expectations by about $100
True, that has the versatility. But its sensor is also 1/5" of an inch, so a DSLR might get a better image, less noise, etc.

I'd love to have video on my next DSLR. I'm sure it'll have all the jelly stuff that looks horrible when you move around fast (like the Nikons), but I carry my DSLR all the time, and it'd be great for little video clips here and there because (a) it's always with me and (b) I always have batteries charged for it.

I also think 720p would suffice if they can tone down the jelly!
04-29-2009, 11:17 AM   #34
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Frankly it doesn't matter whether you want video or not. All the competitors offer video, so if Pentax doesn't, they are toasted.

QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Cause I am not who wants video shooting with my DSLR.


04-29-2009, 11:32 AM   #35
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I don't want to make movies, but shooting quick 30 sec ish clips would be great. And besides I can take that $600 and apply it to more glass to support what I am really into.
04-29-2009, 11:54 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Cause I am not who wants video shooting with my DSLR. I though you were the one looking for high quality video shooting, so I justed threw some pointers in the right direction.

I still think pretending to get good video from a DSLR, is like pretending to get toasts out of your microwave oven. Yes, with the proper gadgets you may get decent toast with a microwave oven, but I think a $12 toaster from K-mart will always do a better job.

Once again my friend, I own two decent HD cameras (well, one decent - Panasonic HS 300, and an ultra-portable / less decent one - Sanyo CG10).
I have access to the local TV station gear (I worked there for years) and this means access to some pro-grade Sonys, plus my landlord owns a wonderfull JVC HD201E (he's a pro videographer and ex colleague) which I used a couple of weeks ago in a friend's wedding.

You see, I don't NEED the K-7 to be a video camera. I JUST WANT IT TO BE.
Of course I don't expect the K-7 to be as good as the HD201 - which costs four to five times more, but I do believe it would be on a par with my Sanyo at least.
I have a small collecion of approximately 25 lenses, half of them AF, the rest manual, which I would absolutely love to try on Video. Some of them are totally unique - there's no video camera with a lens like the 8mm Sigma or the Pentax 10-17. And I don't need one, but as sure as hell I want one. And just because I can afford one (If it actually sells for 1200 euros) I will get me one.


The most important reason however is tham my wife LOVES the burst shooting mode of my K20D and she got so thrilled with the option of HD Video on my next Pentax that she agreed on letting me get one!

Still photo - wise, I'll be very happy with a better AF and only that. K20D IQ is enough for me and I never needed better fps, even though I always shoot RAW+JPEG. Better AF is all I need. But to say that I don't WANT 5 fps, better EV metering, better handling, bigger LCD screen, better battery, a weather-proof kit-lens, a brighter and bigger viewfinder AND HD VIDEO, would be very, very, very stupid of me....

Oh, and when I was growing up, in my small village in the Greek country, owning a toaster was like owning a Ferrari. We would make toast in our wood burning stove back then and believe me, it still is the best one I have ever tasted.
04-29-2009, 12:13 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
I guess this one will do must of your requirments:
HDR-XR100 | HDR-XR100 80GB HD HandycamŽ Camcorder | Sony | SonyStyle USA

With a lens equivalent to 42 to 492 mm, at f/1.8 - f/2.2 (hard to beat even with $3000 plus glass for any DSLR)

Full 1980 x 1080 hd

Sound? How about 5.1 Dolby Surround.....

Price: Sony Cameras - Handycam HDR-XR100 80GB Hard Drive HD Camcorder - HDRXR100

I guess I missed my expectations by about $100
And how will You get with this extra small sensor DOF control equal with aps-c or FF size sensor?! This sensor by diagonal is more than 10 times smaller than FF sensor. Even in the long end of lens most of the scene will be in focus. There is no way to get shalow DOF with such a camera. For shalow DOF video there is no video cameras in price range of DSLR-s.
04-29-2009, 12:30 PM   #38
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Not to mention, for those wanting to make both serious-amateur video as well as photography in harsher environments, where one might be exposed to constant damp after having lugged all your gear in a pack for 5 days (along with all your survival necessities), a two-in one solution in the form of a weathersealed pentax DSLR sounds great. And if wonderful dof and focus control as well as high-iso performance and manual control are also part of the video side of the deal, all the better. For just slightly more than the price of the K20D in the first place, full HD video in this is like getting an almost free high-spec HD cam with your SLR.

Playing with the live-view on my K20D, which I figure is the closest approximation we can get to the K7D video shooting experience for the time being, I really don't think the DSLR form factor is as bad for video as a lot of people make it out to be, either. Especially given that the type of video I wish to do (and I imagine others, as well) is very different from the "press record and go" home-video mentality; cuts are often as short as 15 seconds, with the actual clips being strung together as short as a second apiece. The visible effect of the SR seems to be not much worse than the OIS in the Panasonic HD cams I use for class, as well.

04-29-2009, 01:15 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philippos Quote
...snip ...You see, I don't NEED the K-7 to be a video camera. I JUST WANT IT TO BE.... snip....
Considering this statement, then the video thing is a completely different story. It now turns, as I stated before about the strobe capabitly of some flash guns, that this feature, at least in your case, becomes a "me too" thing, and not a needed real world picture taking feature.

IMHO, I would rather see a better s/n sensor, better fps, even better all metal construction or who knows, a better viewfinder in my DSLR. What I mean is, if Pentax (or whatever manofacturer) can give me better of the features mentioned before, WITH THE SAME PRICE of a video capable DSLR, I wouldn't think it twice.

It's been long ago since I sailed away that old idea of "he who dies with the most toys wins".
04-29-2009, 01:27 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Considering this statement, then the video thing is a completely different story. It now turns, as I stated before about the strobe capabitly of some flash guns, that this feature, at least in your case, becomes a "me too" thing, and not a needed real world picture taking feature.

IMHO, I would rather see a better s/n sensor, better fps, even better all metal construction or who knows, a better viewfinder in my DSLR. What I mean is, if Pentax (or whatever manofacturer) can give me better of the features mentioned before, WITH THE SAME PRICE of a video capable DSLR, I wouldn't think it twice.

It's been long ago since I sailed away that old idea of "he who dies with the most toys wins".
None of the things you list are "a needed real world picture taking feature" either. "Need" in this case is, of course, subjective. I believe you're misinterpreting what he says...it's not about "me too," it's about wanting that feature so he doesn't have to lug around two cameras (or more). So does he NEED video? No, he has camcorders...Does he WANT video? Yes, so he can simplify the process, not so he has what everyone else has (assuming, of course, that I'M interpreting him correctly ).
04-29-2009, 02:06 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by gnaztee Quote
None of the things you list are "a needed real world picture taking feature" either. "Need" in this case is, of course, subjective. I believe you're misinterpreting what he says...it's not about "me too," it's about wanting that feature so he doesn't have to lug around two cameras (or more). So does he NEED video? No, he has camcorders...Does he WANT video? Yes, so he can simplify the process, not so he has what everyone else has (assuming, of course, that I'M interpreting him correctly ).
It's not only practicality I'm after...

I NEEDnothing more than my old K1000 - and some film of course.

What I WANTis another thing.
When I bought my first car, air-condition was an option - an expensive one. I didn't take it.
By the time I bought my second car, it was free. Did I need it? Hell no, I survived in my old Peugeot some years without it. Did I want it? While it was free? Who wouldn't? Did it make my life better or easier? Of course it did. I will never buy a car without air-condition ever again.

If Pentax made a better camera and threw in HD Video Recording as a gift, why should anyone mind? Does the camera in your cellphone make it less of a phone? Does the radio receiver in your Home Theater amp make it less of an amp? Does the Hard Disk in your DVD-R make it less of a player? On the contrary, I believe added functionality improves our equipment.

My dad still uses his Spotmatic. He believes all these systems in my K20D, to be making me less of a photographer than him. He mocks at me and says "don't forget to push the green button". Yet many times I have seen him handling one of my cameras and taking pictures. Even he can't deny instant viewing of photos is amazing.

My point is, even if it proves to be nothing more than a marketing gimmick, you have nothing to lose from using HD Video capturing in your DSLR - assuming you're not paying a great deal extra for it (and so far, it seems you're not). If it proves to be a flop, there's a good chance camera makers will eventually drop it. But as we live in the age of convergence - and I find convergence an inevitable end, I really prefer my video camera to be implemented in my DSLR, than the other way around.
04-29-2009, 03:15 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
With respect to everyone here that would like to see a new DSLR capable of high quality video with stereo sound, I must say that makes no real sense to me such feature, cause there are plenty of very high quality camcorders out there, that can shoot far better video than any "video" capable DSLR.

Yes, I know, such features are like a "me too" have, like stroboscopic flash guns that no one uses but are capable of (like my AF500FTZ and FG540???)....

If I want to shoot video, I would get myself a nice digital camcorder, which in fact, there are some nice ones for under $500 new.

OTOH, If I want something to upload to youtube, then I would get myself a video capable cell phone. Video quality is crap, but since its for youtube, It won't matter if shot with a Bolex on 70 mm film.
Most HD videocams are lousy in low light because of the limited optics.

Current DSLR hybrids have focus and motion blur issues (Nikon D90 and Canon's latest). Even the Panasonic Micro series does not have HD video (yet). I suspect motor drive overuse and battery problems are the impediments.

So the question is: How will Pentax implement HD video. It's a very big selling point, but I question the effect on camera durability. One could fry a sensor or burn the drive mechanism.

Much to await.
04-29-2009, 03:18 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by dopeytree Quote
"video is: 1920x1080, recording as quicktime MPG file" anonymous comment on ricehighs blog so who knows if its true but I imagine so
Then it is almost certainly H.264.

That is the ideal format. Good choice. Pretty much the obvious one these days.
04-29-2009, 04:53 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
I guess this one will do must of your requirments:
HDR-XR100 | HDR-XR100 80GB HD HandycamŽ Camcorder | Sony | SonyStyle USA

With a lens equivalent to 42 to 492 mm, at f/1.8 - f/2.2 (hard to beat even with $3000 plus glass for any DSLR)

Full 1980 x 1080 hd

Sound? How about 5.1 Dolby Surround.....

Price: Sony Cameras - Handycam HDR-XR100 80GB Hard Drive HD Camcorder - HDRXR100

I guess I missed my expectations by about $100
Even with that lens, I highly doubt you could get the same DOF control as you would with a DSLR with a similarly-spec'd lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
Considering this statement, then the video thing is a completely different story. It now turns, as I stated before about the strobe capabitly of some flash guns, that this feature, at least in your case, becomes a "me too" thing, and not a needed real world picture taking feature.

IMHO, I would rather see a better s/n sensor, better fps, even better all metal construction or who knows, a better viewfinder in my DSLR. What I mean is, if Pentax (or whatever manofacturer) can give me better of the features mentioned before, WITH THE SAME PRICE of a video capable DSLR, I wouldn't think it twice.

It's been long ago since I sailed away that old idea of "he who dies with the most toys wins".
Well, if you really want to boil down actual needs, all one needs to take a photo is a light-tight box with one hole and something inside it that will react to light and capture the image.

Everything else you mention is a "me too" thing, also.
04-29-2009, 05:30 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Well, if you really want to boil down actual needs, all one needs to take a photo is a light-tight box with one hole and something inside it that will react to light and capture the image.
Well, if you really really want to boil down actual needs, all one needs is to remember an image seen with the own eyes. Worked well for most of the time
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