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04-30-2009, 08:45 AM   #16
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Weiland, I lifted that gif from you fro future use.
Radu, that was pretty harsh don't you think?
I would agree that was harsh if only I would of wrote JUST the last phrase. So, yes I would of been a mindless fanboy who sees nothing wrong in whatever Hoya does. Unfortunately I also wrote the first paragraph with some opinions. Right or wrong I wished that would of out weight the final phrase. Now, some people have just a very hard time understanding this concept of *debate*.

QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
You are right, GoldenWreckedAngle.
We should accept what the big bosses do. They only want our best and know what to do. Who am I to protest?
1) I agreed 100% that losing good technical service is very bad and I think at least several powerful regional centers are required for the Europe;
2) Is there a certain possibility that a lot of previous Hoya employees in service could be hired by the company that will get the outsourcing contract? It's not like they move the jobs to India I guess!
3) Is it plausible that IF the service center will be closed they are *collateral victims* of their own current bosses who underperformed and not Hoya' bad judgment? I realize you can't be 100% objective as I wouldn't if the team was Romanian but I think this decision is not black or white, it's gray and for some it's really bad and for others really good. Maybe the German market share cannot sustain such a big center and that at least in part is current management' fault.
4) On a more personal note I guess ones who have theur own business' could be less inclined to take stranger's opinions from the internet about how to run it ...

QuoteQuote:
Seriously, I am pretty sure that the financial gain from this action will be very limited. I predict that the negative effects will outweigh the positive, for us the customers anyway, and, in the end, for Hoya/Pentax.
Like I said above it's not about money, it's about performance. Under the current management Pentax wasted a lot of chances such as the one of being very active on the Eastern European countries from the EU which had less legacy gear and hence no particular allegiance towards big 2. For example Sony has over 20% of Poland' market by aggressive marketing and I think Pentax Europe could of offset poor performance in many Western countries (including Germany, btw) with ever more market share than it has now in the East. And speaking about *consumers* Pentax Germany has in this wonderful service center for 3 weeks one of my lenses and I didn't get it back so for this particular consumer it makes no difference if my gear goes to Germany, France or Albania as long as I get it back asap and in good order. And I can assure you that DHL or TNT will get it on my doorstep in about the same time regardless of where it comes from Europe.
So, yes you are right there is no financial gain but maybe a shake up it's better then lay down and expect the (proverbial ) Pentax doom!

Radu

04-30-2009, 08:51 AM   #17
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I had to wait about 6 weeks for pentax to fix my 540 flash! and they took my Ģ70 straight away after giving a quote which only took a day!?

The zoom mecaninism never worked but I didn't know that until I started using the flash more (after the warranty ran out)
04-30-2009, 09:06 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Like I said above it's not about money, it's about performance.
Bad performance is also due to some strange decisions from Pentax/Hoya. The K200D was nice but it was not a direct replacement of the K100D. When they stopped producing the K100D, they abandonned the low-end market where the most sales are done. If they lost money on the K100D I can understand, but otherwise it was not a very wise decision to discontinue it IMHO.
04-30-2009, 09:26 AM   #19
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The French performance may be difficult to copy anyway.

France is a special market. E.g., Apple was always very strong there, even in their dark era.

The "French as such" is an individualist and proud of it. Something I love French people for. They live with style. Shooting Pentax is an expression of life style. For not being a dumb follower

Anyway, Germany and most of Europe still runs much stronger than the US market. In my country, you'll find Pentax in every store carrying photo gear (well, except Calumet). I can walk to at least a dozen stores carrying the K-m (two of them being Pentax Premium dealers).

So, I propose to move the US HQ (and Ned) to Paris is well. This would give Ben a much better chance to become responsible for a new marketing campaign

04-30-2009, 09:42 AM   #20
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
Bad performance is also due to some strange decisions from Pentax/Hoya. The K200D was nice but it was not a direct replacement of the K100D. When they stopped producing the K100D, they abandonned the low-end market where the most sales are done. If they lost money on the K100D I can understand, but otherwise it was not a very wise decision to discontinue it IMHO.
That's exactly my point: even Hoya admitted a *poor strategy* in the past and promised change. Now some hope for the kind of change that doesn't change anything but I doubt it will be enough ! K-7 will be the first *under Hoya project* and whilst many said Hoya has no clues about how to make a camera it may turn out the most successful Pentax of digital age. In the end it very well maybe that Hoya has a lot of cleanup to do after the old Pentax management.

Some food for thought!
Radu
04-30-2009, 09:43 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
With all the current hype, don't forget:

Pentax has just fired all employees of Pentax Switzerland and many in Hamburg, Germany.
Shame on you Pentax/Hoya!
What about the "Pentax family"? Where is it, today?

Boohooo!
I protest!


To the bosses:

Ok, and? I don't get it? Other companies are firing people left and right but when pentax does it it's a national tragedy?
04-30-2009, 09:54 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
With all the current hype, don't forget:

Pentax has just fired all employees of Pentax Switzerland and many in Hamburg, Germany.
Shame on you Pentax/Hoya!
What about the "Pentax family"? Where is it, today?

Boohooo!
I protest!

To the bosses:
It is a terrible shame for those affected. I have been made redundant myself twice - sadly its a fact of business life in a recession. Blame bankers, not bosses. The bosses are being made redundant too.

There are a number of issues behind this but in terms of service I am also very sad. Pentax UK service was a shambles a couple of years ago, but the guys had pulled it around recently. The the firm thats taking over also do Nikon's non-pro work so they are OK, but I will miss personal service from down the road (I live near Slough) and they were a nice bunch.

I gather the root of the issue was cost: Firstly, the service capacity was out of balance with recent sales volumes, and secondly, most digital camera faults actually require replacement of electronic components, which can be done by almost anyone, not optical calibration which is highly specialised and requires training and very expensive gear. This is fine if you are handling enough units (you can hire lots of repair guys but only a few trained techs) but if you only doing a few a month, its relatively expensive because trained techs have to do simple repairs all the time and all the expensive test rigs are under-utilised. On the other hand, a firm that services hundreds of cameras a week (from all makes) can do it much cheaper. In theory anyway!

For issues with lenses and optics, its normally cheaper to ship a replacement unit because of labour costs, and this is what they will probably do for most warranty work. Thats been true in the electronics business for years - cameras are only now starting to get with the program.

I am susprised, and I think its a mistake, that at least one European centre was not retained for repair and service of older equipment (which cannot be replaced) and to handle professional level service (whenever the 645 comes out). Pentax still has spares for a lot of old gear. I suspect this WILL happen when Pentax decide to re-introduce pro service into Europe with the 645 but in the meantime it probably means a trip to Japan and a lot of money.

The good news is that some independent Pentax repair centres do exist. I know of one in the UK, staffed by ex-Pentax guys, and I suspect there may be others out there across Europe. The one in the UK is here...

www.asahiphoto.co.uk

They have spares for most Pentax film bodies and can calibrate and adjust all current cameras (apparently). I'm sure they will take enquiries from abroad.

They have my FA28 F2.8 for a cleanup at the moment. If they do a good job my 24-90 will be going in for a refurb next week (loose zoom ring).

Last edited by *isteve; 04-30-2009 at 10:01 AM.
04-30-2009, 10:14 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I'm sure they will take enquiries from abroad.
Yes they do. The repaired my FA 100 macro two years ago.

04-30-2009, 11:19 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gio645 Quote
Yes they do. The repaired my FA 100 macro two years ago.
What was your experience like? Hassle free? Good repair?
04-30-2009, 12:56 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
What was your experience like? Hassle free? Good repair?
All went smoothly and they did a nice job on the lens. I'm 100% satisfied.
04-30-2009, 01:40 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
You are right, GoldenWreckedAngle.
We should accept what the big bosses do. They only want our best and know what to do. Who am I to protest?

Seriously, I am pretty sure that the financial gain from this action will be very limited. I predict that the negative effects will outweigh the positive, for us the customers anyway, and, in the end, for Hoya/Pentax.
The big bosses want to make a big profit - That is their job. However, contrary to popular belief, big bosses rarely get to be big bosses without developing a genuine caring spirit toward other human beings, especially their employees and customers. I'm sure they have given the matter a little thought.
04-30-2009, 02:37 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The French performance may be difficult to copy anyway.

France is a special market. E.g., Apple was always very strong there, even in their dark era.

The "French as such" is an individualist and proud of it. Something I love French people for. They live with style. Shooting Pentax is an expression of life style. For not being a dumb follower

Anyway, Germany and most of Europe still runs much stronger than the US market. In my country, you'll find Pentax in every store carrying photo gear (well, except Calumet). I can walk to at least a dozen stores carrying the K-m (two of them being Pentax Premium dealers).

So, I propose to move the US HQ (and Ned) to Paris is well. This would give Ben a much better chance to become responsible for a new marketing campaign
Last time I went to Paris, I saw a much higher proportion of Pentax shooters than I have seen anywhere else. I went to one of the photo shops and they had all the limited lenses including the FA limiteds and the DA* lenses in the window. I was well impressed.
I don't know what the exposure is like in Germany and Switzerland, but moving your base of operations to a place of greater support sounds like good business sense.

Commiserations to those being made redundant, I work in a bank, so I'm on pretty shaky ground myself...
04-30-2009, 02:50 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
With all the current hype, don't forget:
........
Is that the external microphone plug of the K-7???

Rui
04-30-2009, 04:11 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Acliffalay Quote
I don't know what the exposure is like in Germany and Switzerland
Around the corner, my Pentax dealer carries the following lenses on display today:
All zooms except 16-45 and 18-250 (i.e., incl. 60-250! ), DFA 100/2.8. A couple of Limiteds have been reordered. So, with the lack of FA and DA Ltds on actual display, not as good as in Paris. But not soooo bad either ...
04-30-2009, 05:46 PM   #30
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Everything is not bad...

But i missing Pentax Scandinavia in Sweden too, only 60km from my place and with helpful people. Their homepage was a little better then now, then itīs made in Hamburg.
They had a newsletter via mail too, came ~2-3 times a year, now itīs nothing from Hamburg. Pentax homepage in Germany had news about DA60-250 for some weeks ago but not in the Swedish homepage that Pentax Hamburg also have.
Compare Nachrichten - Division Imaging Systems - PENTAX Europe GmbH
with Nyheter - PENTAX Sverige

Now we have a import company that deals with Pentax, Sony, Panasonic, Metz, Tamron, Sunpak, Lowepro.....
In January they there the first to rice prices on Pentax lenses, up to 50% on same lenses.

Did you see Pentax at Photokina, small small if you compare to Olympus and Panasonic and...
Same in a exhibition in Sweden in November, then came the big sale for Christmas and the test of Pentax K-m in Swedish Photopapers in January( or February)...
Perhaps the same as last... with the new cameras in this summer - to late...

But i see the light...
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