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05-04-2009, 09:05 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by sezme Quote
Wow - that's quite a leap considering that the camera in the photo doesn't even have a strap.

I think what Ned is talking about is simply this: the add-on exposure meter at the top is unique and gives the SV a unique look and feel; it has a certain something, a certain cool factor that no other camera had. I think Ned's thinking (hoping) that there's something special about the K-7 that will trigger that same visceral response, something that will be obvious once all the specs are revealed.


I agree. I think the meter on the camera was not just cool, but revolutionary and something that is now considered essential. Something simple, but became a requirement on all cameras - I wouldn't consider buying one without it. He may be referring to video, but probably not exclusively. I believe the new camera will have such a great combination of features that eventually we will all shake our heads and wonder why someone didn't do this before. After all, a soul is not considered a reflection of just one attribute of someone (or thing), but the sum of the whole.

05-04-2009, 09:12 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
If Ned uses the following phrases to describe the strap lugs, then he is a phony:
"I'm talking about the "soul of a camera" and is this something that can be felt and appreciated by the photographer who uses that tool"
Anyone who's familiar with Ned knows that he's a Leica fan, and Leica's are considered to be a classic example of a camera with a 'soul'. And Leica's are famous for their fine craftsmanship and attention to fine details. The strap lugs just might be an example of similar attention to fine details that are in the K-7, so I wouldn't dismiss this so readily. After all, it's just a blog post, and not an advertising spec. I seriously doubt that any of the purely technological features like metering, AF, electronic viewfinder information, etc. would be used as an example of something that gives a camera a 'soul', for those who use such terms to describe a camera.
05-04-2009, 09:16 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
Anyone who's familiar with Ned knows that he's a Leica fan, and Leica's are considered to be a classic example of a camera with a 'soul'. And Leica's are famous for their fine craftsmanship and attention to fine details. The strap lugs just might be an example of similar attention to fine details that are in the K-7, so I wouldn't dismiss this so readily. After all, it's just a blog post, and not an advertising spec. I seriously doubt that any of the purely technological features like metering, AF, electronic viewfinder information, etc. would be used as an example of something that gives a camera a 'soul', for those who use such terms to describe a camera.
i hope thats not it. hasn't Ned seen the entry level Olympus E-420 ?
05-04-2009, 09:39 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Maybe, my answer was a little bref. What I meant is that you get what you pay for.

E.g., with the iPhone which already is a camera with one of those little bargain A-GPS chips (small as the tip of a match) one could learn how useful it is.

Basically, it switches on with the camera wake-up and gets a fix minutes after you took the photo. And the K-7 wouldn't be able to triangulate cell phone

So yes, it may be useful for a large scale positioning. But to actually geotag images one would still need a logger solution which works like a champ btw.


So, what I wanted to say ... maybe, it isn't speculated more because it wouldn't be such a hot or useful feature anyway.

Thanks for clarification, your response makes more sense to me now

05-04-2009, 01:44 PM   #95
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I'd have guessed it came with George Harrison, but as he's not available, maybe they will package the camera with a Beatle wig, so all us geezers can re-experience our youth.
05-04-2009, 03:01 PM   #96
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Yes!

QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I think people are reading too much into this photo.

All I think Ned is talking about is the "feel" of the camera. The precise, fine clock like, feel of the old Pentax camers.

This is something that has been lost with the plastic cameras that were built through the 80's.

There is also the conection to the photographer that has been lost with the new cameras. Pentax and others. I think alot of people have never used an old Pentax film camera. They have never experianced the smooth click/turn of the metal dials, the joy of the film advance. The way the metal body warms to your hands over time. Or even the smell of the oils, the film and the leather of the eveready case. Its like owning a fine watch, or an antique car.

If this is what Pentax is after with the K-7, this could be more difficult then the simple task of improving the autofocus.

Just my 2 bits.

Two very good bits, too. I really like the phrase about the connections between the photographer and the camera, the image and and the subject - connections that are not (merely) technological. The camera uses a lot of technology but it should be a tool that's a pleasure in itself to use, like a fine musical or writing instrument.

It adapts to the user and the moment and the meaning of the moment. It satisfies rather than simply being satisfactory. It supports rather than intrudes. It reveals the path then gets out of the way.

It isn't about the dials, my friends.
05-04-2009, 06:09 PM   #97
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I had a third thought today about Ned's cryptic message and the photo of GH with the SV.

I think Ned is specifically talking about the feel of the mode control dial on the K-7.

After the release of the K-m, I read an interview with one of the designers, and a point he made was the thought that went into the tactil feel of the K-m's mode dial. They wanted to dial to be easily turned by one finger, but not too loose as to feel cheap.

If Pentax thought about the K-m in this way, they certainly considered the dial feel on the K-7.

In the photo GH is turning the timer dial on the SV. I have never used an SV, but I would expect the timer dial to have a similar feel to all of the controls of the Pentax cameras of that erra. Precise. Smooth. Quality.

I think when Ned saw this photo, he had a "flash back" of the first time he and the other Pentax Top Guns got a chance to feel the new K-7. I would expect the debut of the K-7 in the Pentax boardroom would have looked allot like that photo. Someone sitting, testing the feel of the dial, someone looking over a sholder, someone looking at the proposed promotion material. I expect the new dial has a feel of quality that is above and beyond cameras sold today, and the feel harkens back to Pentax's history.

I think this is what has conected Ned to the Photo.

It is certainly not a "twin eye metering stsyem" Whos dumb idea was that?
05-04-2009, 07:04 PM   #98
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2 possibilities

1) Body is rubberized referring to the Beatles "Rubber Soul" album.
2) The camera will talk to you and tell you what the buttons are for.... so you don't have to fumble around like George........the voice is soulful..


Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-04-2009 at 07:33 PM.
05-04-2009, 07:21 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Matrix metering attempts to add artificial intelligence, by using multiple sensors to compare different parts of the frame to then guess what the subject is — for example, dark center with bright background is probably a backlit subject, so expose to get the center at 18% even if the background blows out. Having a second whole-frame or ambient light sensor isn't going to add much more information.
Indeed
QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
However, one could imagine a matrix metering system that seems a lot smarter simply by giving it more to work with. The current one has 16 areas, and presumably only works on luminosity. Instead, the entire live-view sensor could be read and a small full-color image thumbnail constructed. This thumbnail could be compared against a much, much larger database and the best match used. Flash memory is cheap — put half a gigabyte of possible images in there and a fast hash algorithm to match 'em up, and there you go.
Some idea as to how nikon does it.....now... Kind of just makes you shake your head..
Actually I consider it a lot of research for very little return. Using a spot meter could be a lot more effective...
Nikon's 3D Color Matrix
Metering II instantly and accurately evaluates brightness, color, contrast, selected focus area and subject-to-camera distance information, referencing the results against an on board database of 30,000 scenes from actual photography...........

3D Color Matrix Meter with 1,005-pixel RGB Sensor,
some say 90,000 "scenes" but to be honest there probably all expressed mathematically, not an actual scene stored...
Any errors or omissions are not my fault.......
Oh and people still complain when it fails, which it does.....
And of course people discuss the "need" fo a color sensing light meter.......
As this poster so aptly put it..... bottom line......
Every photographer I know wants to know one thing from the meter: How much exposure to make the scene 18%
grey?

http://photo.net/digital-camera-forum/00NgXy
and if you think about it distance is important (think predominantly red scene at infinity...... )
EDIT: Guess there up to 300,000 scenes.......
http://www.moosepeterson.com/d2x/
This information is then processed by a powerful microcomputer and its database said to hold at least 30,000 exposure possibilities. This is where the new 3DII is different. It has a database of 300,000 compared to the original's 30,000.

Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-04-2009 at 07:32 PM.
05-04-2009, 07:50 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
Anyone who's familiar with Ned knows that he's a Leica fan, and Leica's are considered to be a classic example of a camera with a 'soul'. And Leica's are famous for their fine craftsmanship and attention to fine details. The strap lugs just might be an example of similar attention to fine details that are in the K-7, so I wouldn't dismiss this so readily. After all, it's just a blog post, and not an advertising spec. I seriously doubt that any of the purely technological features like metering, AF, electronic viewfinder information, etc. would be used as an example of something that gives a camera a 'soul', for those who use such terms to describe a camera.
This is my opinion as well Gary. I think the speculation that it is something obvious like the viewfinder or some other technology is a bit too "on the nose." IMO he is referring to a feeling the camera gives you when you hold it. As if you are holding a precision piece of equipment. Kind of like the feeling holding and operating a Limited lens gives you.
05-04-2009, 08:22 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
The addendum that have appeared in Ned's post

....."Note: I can see from a few posts on various forums that some folks literally took my words to mean that I'm referring to specific features in a future camera, which could not be further from the point of this post. Guess the tendency on forums to immediately react to someone's words is similar to firing off a few shots before you've taken off the lens cap. I was not suggesting that we're bringing back features in that 1964 Pentax that George is holding. That would be like BMW using the same exact engine from the original Mini Cooper in their re-incarnation. What I'm really thinking about is the idea that certain products have a synergy where the different features and functions cooperate advantageously for a final outcome. Simply defined, it means that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
To me, it seems obvious that Ned is implying that the new K-7 is just like the Beatles in that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. What he is doing here is trying to plant an association in our minds: The greatest pop band of all time = the Pentax K-7. Hey, maybe Ringo will do some advertisements for Pentax!

Although I expect the new camera to be nifty, I don't expect any technological breakthroughs.

Rob
05-04-2009, 09:43 PM   #102
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Richard Starkey has officially asked everyone to please not call him Ringo any more. He has put that to bed.
05-04-2009, 10:10 PM   #103
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Those are big windows!!
Probably have blinds or shades.

How about built-in neutral density filters

David
05-04-2009, 10:17 PM   #104
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So are we officially staring a rumor that the cameras have souls? That is quite scary if you think about it. If you love photography, you might as well sell your soul to Pentax.
05-04-2009, 10:37 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
This is what Bunnell says:

"In other words, I'm talking about the "soul of a camera" and is this something that can be felt and appreciated by the photographer who uses that tool?"

Link: NED BUNNELL
I think what he meant when using the word "tool" is the camera itself, as a whole. Fact is, a photographer can use a camera as a tool, but also lights, backdrops, software, darkroom stuff, etc. and the camera is only one of the many tools a photographer can use.

So I don't think it's about the metering, the OVF, the movie mode or anything... It's probably about the high quality craftsmanship, the reliability, the feeling in yours hands, the quiet shutter, the good response, etc.

Cameras that have a "soul", just like cars, are kind of rare. In cars, a good example is the Mazda Miata.

Didn't had such a powerful engine... Didn't had the best looks... Couldn't compare to a Ferrari... But all the people who have a Miata will tell you how fun it is to drive one, how this inexpensive sports car handles curves and gives you a real feeling that driving is enjoyable (until you get stuck in the 5PM traffic jam, that is - lol).

Prehaps the K-7 is a bit like that... Handles like an old Pentax MX, has the features of a Pentax MZ-S and is quiet as a Leica M7, etc.

One thing is sure... It's time to upgrade my K10D, so the K-7 is my next DSLR. A welcome addition will be the movie mode, a must for me, as I'm into indie movie making.

But other than that, I'll probably appreciate the (all yet to be confirmed) 5 frames per second burst, the 100% coverage and 1.0x magnification viewfinder, the 1/250th flash sync, the 1/8000th shutter speed (when shooting fast primes in bright light), the lighter body, the magensium finish, the possible in-viewfinder liveview, etc.

I'll know on May 21st, 2009.


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