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05-10-2009, 07:42 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Brand Awareness>Brand Confidence>Brand Adoption=Brand Stickiness.
Good, but I would change 'stickiness' to loyalty.

05-10-2009, 08:00 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Brand Awareness>Brand Confidence>Brand Adoption=Brand Stickiness.
What Pentax needs FIRST is a clear vision - what do they want to be - and the passion to be that.

Everyting else follows vision and passion.

I suspect Pentax lacks both, and has for quite some time.
05-10-2009, 08:06 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Good, but I would change 'stickiness' to loyalty.
That is an Internet term...means that you won't leave which is loyalty.
05-10-2009, 08:25 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
That is an Internet term...means that you won't leave which is loyalty.
I do admit I'm a bit behind the internet times.

05-10-2009, 08:57 PM   #80
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Everybody seems to mainly be focusing on advertising, but the truth is the product line needs a few tweaks.

1 month ago it was simple and clear. K2000 for the "entry level", K200 for the mid grade, K20 for the top of the line. Not quite perfect, but decent and straight forward.

Now things are not so clear. Sure the K20 and K2000 are still around, but the K200 is on its way out. And where in the lineup does the K-7 fit? For that matter, Why does it have a hyphen? Is Pentax going to start using silly names for cameras again?

And then there is the last piece of the puzzle. The one that Pentax was the master of 20+ years ago. The unbelieveably simple yet does everything you could need it to do camera. Think of a digital P3n with AF and you would have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. A maximum of 5 AF points. NO "scene" modes. Program, Av, Tv, and full manual only. A simplified light meter. SR would be a reasonable item, But it would only really need to be 8 megapixels, possibly even six. Another way to look at it would be a stripped down K100d. Find a way to sell it with a lens for $325 and it would be a winner for sure. Release it as the fourth item in an updated naming scheme that makes sense.

THEN start the marketing blitz.
05-10-2009, 10:47 PM   #81
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I think that many of you will like the K200D replacement that is supposed to come out before Christmas. Very eccentric design, I hear. But then, the K20 replacement. Some of you should be tempted not to buy K-7 until that comes out. May not be a bad idea for the K-7 price to come down. By then you will know more about K20 replacement.
05-11-2009, 07:28 AM   #82
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the annalogy with subaru is actually very interesting. funny enough, i own both brands, for similar reasons. a few thoughts:

subaru is not as strange and "innovative" as it looks, similar to pentax: subaru is not the only one to have proper awd, audi for instance is another good awd provider. however, i will only quote what you can see on german subarus from the last decade, on the rear window "naturlich, mit allrad". "naturally, awd". this puts a smile on my face everytime. mitsubishi also makes excellent awd, but, again, not standard, and for big money.

pentax is very much like that: naturlich, mit weather sealing. naturlich, it's a pentax. the idea here is just a quick point, but it is important. just like backwards compatibility. i am hooked on subaru because of their attitude, i know subaru will most probably always make a new care i will want to buy, because they are insane (for $%$ sake, they even made a boxer turbo-diesel). another interesting point: subaru dealerships worldwide sell second hand subarus, and they are _proud_ of the fact so many subaru cars of those ever built are still on the road. this is similar to backwards compatibility with pentax.

the difference is there too, though: subaru makes use of their attitude and vision, they make it seen. pentax needs to work harder on that. for me, pentax, just like subaru, are unique and can be unique only trough their attitude and commitment. technology comes and goes, at any one point somebody else will be on the very top. i don't care, in the long run, it's the attitude that matters.

more on this later
05-11-2009, 07:39 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
the annalogy with subaru is actually very interesting. funny enough, i own both brands, for similar reasons. a few thoughts:

subaru is not as strange and "innovative" as it looks, similar to pentax: subaru is not the only one to have proper awd, audi for instance is another good awd provider. however, i will only quote what you can see on german subarus from the last decade, on the rear window "naturlich, mit allrad". "naturally, awd". this puts a smile on my face everytime. mitsubishi also makes excellent awd, but, again, not standard, and for big money.

pentax is very much like that: naturlich, mit weather sealing. naturlich, it's a pentax. the idea here is just a quick point, but it is important. just like backwards compatibility. i am hooked on subaru because of their attitude, i know subaru will most probably always make a new care i will want to buy, because they are insane (for $%$ sake, they even made a boxer turbo-diesel). another interesting point: subaru dealerships worldwide sell second hand subarus, and they are _proud_ of the fact so many subaru cars of those ever built are still on the road. this is similar to backwards compatibility with pentax.

the difference is there too, though: subaru makes use of their attitude and vision, they make it seen. pentax needs to work harder on that. for me, pentax, just like subaru, are unique and can be unique only trough their attitude and commitment. technology comes and goes, at any one point somebody else will be on the very top. i don't care, in the long run, it's the attitude that matters.

more on this later
Never thought of this analogy...Pentax and Subaru...I like it.

05-12-2009, 07:08 AM   #84
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This may be what is behind the association/increasing association with Wal-mart. Co-marketing to the amatuer, advance amatuer and even the semi-pro.

Most " lay people" assume that pricing at Walmart will always be better than at the "camera" store and expect it to be a whole lot less intimitating to shop at.

Look at Dell.
05-12-2009, 07:07 PM   #85
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Pentax has never been very good at marketing I think the best comparison would be leica, they are just as bad.

neither company has a huge market share, I suppose you could argue that SLRs are more cut-throat products than range finders and I won't argue that point each have their advantages and disadvantages . But both companies aren't really well known only to photographers that have been at it for a while and they both suck at marketing. Zeiss is just as bad, Voigtlander(cosina) is even worse...I didn't know about the SL II lenses only a few months before they were discontinued.

I guess what is important here and now is that pentax make a product that has the same impact on the market like K10D did. I'm sure the K10 gave the R&D guys at cannon and nikon a headache (that was probably felt by olympus too) the K20D saw a refinement on those basic set of features that the K10D had as well as a few enhancements and upgrades.

IF Pentax bring out a semi-professional camera body - a enthusiast level camera and a professional medium format SLR this year; I think Pentax will be in a position to grab more market share but yes...they have to market these things otherwise people are just going to pass them by without as much as a second glance.

But I applaud Pentax by providing high quality Prime lenses. Canon and Nikon in regards to primes at the moment, sure canon has some very good prime lenses, I use a lot of them..but for your average consumer isn't going to plonk down $2459 for a 24mm f/1.4L when a $1635 24-105mm 4/f L IS can do the same job for less and have image stabilisation on top of it all.

Last edited by Digitalis; 05-12-2009 at 07:14 PM.
05-12-2009, 09:21 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
<snip>
But I applaud Pentax by providing high quality Prime lenses. Canon and Nikon in regards to primes at the moment, sure canon has some very good prime lenses, I use a lot of them..but for your average consumer isn't going to plonk down $2459 for a 24mm f/1.4L when a $1635 24-105mm 4/f L IS can do the same job for less and have image stabilisation on top of it all.
The average consumer will not spend $1500+ on any lens.
05-13-2009, 04:22 AM   #87
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continued:

as somebody pointed out, the key word is _vision_. in the case of nut-cases like subaru and pentax (note that i use the word with a lot of sympathy ), vision is what sets them apart. subaru for me stands out for their vision "awd for everybody", from there it's downhill "we have symetrical awd, and it's the way it should be, so we stick to the boxer design untill the sky falls over", and that they did, in a market where diesels were more and more popular (fast af vs accurate af, maybe?), they took ages to develop their (it seems outstanding in every way) turbo diesel, and they made it almost a drop-in replacement of the gasoline engines. because they can, because "the world is flat", because that's what they believe and they are right, and subaru fans know why they are right. get the picture? . subaru is not a car for everybody, but those for which it is, it tends to be _the_ car, few ever want to "downgrade" to anything else, pentax is similar: it's not for everybody, and that's not bad, the important thing is for pentax to realise this (i honestly think they do), and be proud and bold about it, instead of being afraid, figure out, very realistically, who pentax is for (see bellow), and go get them. in my oppinion, there is a samll (but significant) percentage of nikon and canon shooters who are "in the wrong camp", for example, and a lot of others who are jsut getting in, and choosing the wrong camp for their needs. pentax needs to clearly make their presence known, and make it clear who they are "friends" with, what kinds of photographers really need to be aware that pentax exists before choosing any system.

pentax seems to have the vision "every dslr should be weathersealed, and the fact that it's entry-level should not stop you from using it in the rain", we understand why, most photographers do, because only casual photographers will shoot on sunny days and stay at home any other time. they beleieve we should still be able to buy new good quality modern design prime lenses, because zooms are nice, but you shouldn't have to use one if all you need and want is a prime, and so on. pentax needs to push this vision, we see it, but we're already "in", people who are not cannot see it, so they don't get, sometimes, why pentax even should exist. in my oppinion, pentax has positioned themselves strongly for certain targets, i think it's time to go for the kill, make some noise: nature photographers (both wildlife and landscape -- for wildlife there are small bits missing, like a longer lens, except for that 600/4, and a few other things, it's true), take some of these guys onboard, use their input to further refine the products, and meanwhile make something we will remember: how about sponsoring a pentax wildlife preservation photo project, a pentax "national parks" (or whatever -- landscape) photo project, these are high profile these days, and they are also likely to bring some financial reward too (in most countries, sponsoring such things will grant you serious tax advantages, i think, so the effort of sustaining such project would be partly dampened on the long run); there's also some types of sports shooting which pentax has covered (as many people here on the forums have proven, i myself am shooting rallyes, which can be demanding), the weathersealing helps a lot here. another point wich will be seen as a clear step away from all the others, these days, would be more involvement with the community, active involvement (sort of like what ned bunnel does, but more "agressive"): remember the k10d, and how quickly they reacted to complaints, with a firmware update which led many to buy the k10d and get into the system (so made pentax _money_ , and market share)

so, imho, pentax needs to step forward and start being visible. saying you're different is a good start, but not enough, having the products to prove it is important too, but still doesn't cut it, you need to DO something, act as more than just a manufacturer, act like a team of enthusiast who know exactly what we want and what we do with the cameras, and make sure we are aware of it at all times. a short analogy might be with subaru and rally racing, they are strongly associated with it, and also with "extreme" sports (or, should i say, "niche" sports, like snowboarding), they make great cars, rally or no rally, but when you see them on the special stages, you know where their hearts lie, and yours. pentax is associated lately with outstanding image quality and outdoors shooting, it's time to exploit that actively, or it will fade (because anybody can make weathersealed cameras, and they probably _will_ start to put wr in their lower bodyes soon, but what really matters, what sets pentax apart, is their consistent vision and stubborness to follow it, starting with lens compatibility, continuing with image quality on dslrs, and nicely topped with wr).

Last edited by nanok; 05-13-2009 at 04:27 AM.
05-13-2009, 01:14 PM   #88
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why every camera in a Pentax ad (except the Km of course) isn't beaded up with water is beyond me. its quite an arresting image to see any expensive piece of electronics covered in water - everyone would stop at that ad by curiosity alone.

weathersealing is practically standard for Pentax yet instead of the brand being synonymous with it, they treat it almost as a bonus feature. thats just bad marketing - throwing away their universal market differentiator and demoting it to a bulletpoint.

with the intro of an affordable 'WR' lens line, there's no more excuses. Pentax and Pentax *alone* is bringing weathersealing to the mainstream. unless you never leave the house, that's not a niche consideration, that's globally relevant. as is the price, the K200 can be found for less than $500.

why isn't the world aware of all this? i hope with the K-7 and the WR lens line, Pentax has finally put on their heads straight. let's see some WET CAMERAS.
05-13-2009, 01:25 PM   #89
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Amen on that!
05-13-2009, 06:31 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve Beswick Quote
The average consumer will not spend $1500+ on any lens.
you would be amazed by a person with a lot of money and limited intelligence will buy
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