Full Frame Vs High Quality Cropped Body - Will Pentax Win/Survive in the Game?

nosnoop · 05-13-2009, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

but the situation w/ 5D in USA is different - it is available and it is the cheapest FF body (<= USD $2K)... so you can't discount it

I see it differently. In US, it is actually the same. Only remaining unsold inventory is available. In larger store such as B&H, you can no longer order a 5D.

Quote:

Pentax FF is aimed at the market where people (existing Pentax users) already have lenses to use on it..... but there enough people who will buy FF body only...

I personally don't think there is anywhere enough buyers to justify the development cost.

Quote:

how's that different from the moment when *istD was released ?

At that time, *istD's APS-C market was about explode and grow exponentially for years. OTOH, FF DSLR has always been a niche market; and it looks like it will remain as a niche market for years to come.

lesmore49 · 05-13-2009, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

Eos System started in 1987

Canon made certain FD lenses thru 1994

In 1990-1994 they made a 1.26x FD lens to Eos mount converter & it retailed for $250/ wholesaled $125. This allowed eos camera owners to adapt all of canon's white paint lenses and a few others 200mm and above. Like 14 lenses were adaptable to eos.

My Canon dealer sheets from Christmas 1999 included their last offers of FD equiptment, lenses, cameras, assessories. B&H sold remainder FD lenses and stuff thru 2003 brand new with warranty.

So YES Canon dumped FD, however it didn't happen in a day, or a year or 5 years. I figure you take 1987 eos launch thru 1994 last FD lens made thru 1999 FD lenses still orderable and whats that???

It took canon from 1987 to 1999 to "dump" their FD mount:

12 years.

My F-1N film camera was made in 1994. Canon's unique I think in date code stamping cameras lenses and some assessories. its handy, I wish everyone did this.

Canon FD shooters back then went to Nikon. Then Nikon shooters went to eos for their fast autofocus supertele's & then even later , full frame dslrs. Now Eos owners go to Nikon for D700 and lenses like 14-24 2.8 and 24-70 2.8.

back & forth,... for this reason & that.

Me? I say own both Canon and Nikon ;^) & while you're at it own pentax too!

Wheres that put pentax? Have they gained from Canon and Nikon owners jumping ship or do they loose more market share with pentaxians jumping ship that may never return? '

Back in screw mount days, like late 1960's wasn't PENTAX #1 ???

Isn't that why spotmatics were the prop of choice in 1960's movies:

Pentax meant quality, it was a recognized ICON.

I think when K Mount hit in late 1976 they already lost #1 global sales position. Screw mounts are cool but whats faster to mount and dismount ???

A bayonet mount !!!

Pentax was slow to see fast mount & dismount lenses were costing them customers.

I think Pentax loses sales fto Nkon and Canon largely due to hardly any advertising .....can't recall last time I saw a print ad for the K20d in North America.

Canon goes after the youth market with TV ads featuring a popular young female singer, lot's of adverts in print, lot's of product availabilty in bog box stores, etc.

Pentax seems to be 'old lonely'. I know about Pentax as I've had them for 40+ years...many others think they have gone out of business or are in the process of doing so.
I know two advanced amateurs who went out out of pentax. One has a Nikon D300 , the other a Canon 40D.
They got into digita l a couple of years ago and felt at that time as Pentax just had the istD and a few digital lenses...compared to Nikon and Canon who were going full out with great cameras and lot's of accessories. Since the K10D Pentax has turned things around ...has great, well respected digital bodies and introduced some real fine lenses...although they do not compete lens for lens with Canikon.

I wouldn't mind having a new Pentax 400...f5.6...scratch that...be different...maybe Pentax will make a 450mm.

I have bought the 16-45, 55-300, 50 f1.4, 18-55, KM, K10D...but I do think Pentax needs to increase the amount of accessories and lenses.

In my view over the past few years...Nikon has slipped badly as the former absolutely dominant professional camera...Canon has largely overwhelmed Nikon in the pro field...but Nikon has really gone into the consumer field quite well.

Back in the '60's Canon was really not much of a force..sure they rested on their laurels with their '50's rangefinder...but in the '60's not much. They introduced the Canon F1 and many pro accessories and started their climb to the top of the pro favoured list...I'm still surprised.

Pentax, IMO...they entered the digital field too late and have been playing catchup since then. Going by the sales figures they are behind even newcomer Sony.
The future...I dunno...I'm doing my part by buying lot's of new Pentax equipment...but then I've been around a long time and no what Pentax has to offer...good stuff.

deejjjaaaa · 05-13-2009, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by nosnoop

I see it differently. In US, it is actually the same. Only remaining unsold inventory is available. In larger store such as B&H, you can no longer order a 5D.

is Adorama big store enough for you ? they have it...

deejjjaaaa · 05-13-2009, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by nosnoop

I personally don't think there is anywhere enough buyers to justify the development cost.

I personally do, so that is a stupid argument on your and my side too

PS: do not forget - nobody is asking Pentax to have a state of the art FF body w/ its own sensor like some competitors do... equivalent of 5D will be good enough.

deejjjaaaa · 05-13-2009, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by nosnoop

At that time, *istD's APS-C market was about explode

can you quote a number of researches (post some links) from that time (when prices for APS-C 6mp bodies were as they were back then) saying that "APS-C market was about explode" ? otherwise you are saying things about the past knowing already what happened.

nosnoop · 05-13-2009, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

is Adorama big store enough for you ? they have it...

It does not matter. Canon USA no longer has it, what you can buy now is just remaining unsold inventory. Production has been stopped for quite a while already. Adorama still having stocks just means that sales have been slow.

deejjjaaaa · 05-13-2009, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by nosnoop

It does not matter.

of course - if something does not suit your point of view it does not matter...

nosnoop · 05-13-2009, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

of course - if something does not suit your point of view it does not matter...

This is getting silly. 5D is no longer in production, and it is no longer sold in large volume, so I said "it does not matter" as its sales volume would NOT affect the overall FF DSLR market share as you implied. I have used hard data from Japan; and US situation is similar (discontinued). If you have hard data to back up your claim, please do so.

Samsungian · 05-13-2009, 02:51 PM

Ha! I guess the $1750 I paid last year for 5D was a great deal, huh?

You know since they are flushing the remainders for $1999.99

0296B002 Canon EOS-5D Digital SLR Camera Body, 12.8 Megapixels, Interchangeable Lens Camera - USA Warranty

Lets figure this out, X number of 5D were made and canon is still suppling 5D to a major dealer. Who knows how many Canon are STILL sitting on. Maybe it'll take a year to dump them? Not sure if this is proof they are slow movers or because 5D mark II is far more desireable for additional $700. So if canon does not place/sell unsold 5D to adorama until September 2009 it seems to me this is still full frame product being sold in todays market. Sell'um or Crush'um. It cost canon money to make them, I'd say the one selling today would count towards a grand total of full frame dslr sales.

Me? I really like my old tech, slow 3 frame per second 5D. Not a pro body, not weathersealed, but having a biggie sized viewfinder is always a pleasure to use. I won't buy another. Infact I won't buy another full frame dslr until this HD video becomes high tech. I could see passing on any brand new dslrs for 2 or 3 years from today.

>>>>>Yen stengthened against dollar today, now a buck will buy you 95 yen. Just a few days ago it a Dollar Bill got you 100 yen. Currency trade complicates gear pricing.

Originally posted by nosnoop

This is getting silly. 5D is no longer in production, and it is no longer sold in large volume, so I said "it does not matter" as its sales volume would NOT affect the overall FF DSLR market share as you implied. I have used hard data from Japan; and US situation is similar (discontinued). If you have hard data to back up your claim, please do so.

**David** · 05-13-2009, 04:49 PM

Hi Les, looks like we are from the some vintage. If you hanker for more metal and less plastic there is always the three FF limited lens, I can vouch for them.

On a more sober note, there is an unsubstantiated comment that there seems to be a relatively higher incidence of cancer among long term darkroom users. Comment came from an career professional photographer friend of mine. But I do miss the smell.

Take Care

David

lesmore49 · 05-13-2009, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by David

Hi Les, looks like we are from the some vintage. I think we are...I'm 60 years old.If you hanker for more metal and less plastic there is always the three FF limited lens, I can vouch for them.

They have always had an appeal...I think a pancake lens on my KM would really add to it's portability.

On a more sober note, there is an unsubstantiated comment that there seems to be a relatively higher incidence of cancer among long term darkroom users. Comment came from an career professional photographer friend of mine. But I do miss the smell.

You know, I'm not surprised...I'm glad I just did darkroom stuff occasionally and did not do it as a career.

Take Care

David

I still have all my medium format equipment. I use it every so often, not as much as I used to. I always derive great pleasure from my Mamiya. I have the 220 Pro F TLR that I bought new back in the '80's along with the 180 telephoto, 65 normal and a wide angle lens. It was always a nice procedure..the film wind, the leaf shutter, the composition , racking out the bellows to focus...oops can't forget the meter reading with my hand held Sekonic. I generally use/used it atop my tripod..with all these mechanical devices on it...it truly is going back to a past age...but I enjoy that bit of time travel.

Have a good one...Les

Kunzite · 05-13-2009, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by Samsungian

So if canon does not place/sell unsold 5D to adorama until September 2009 it seems to me this is still full frame product being sold in todays market.

You know, it looks like I can still find a brand new *istD around here. Nobody wants it, so I guess it will be around for some time.
Say, is this a "product being sold in todays market", or just remaining unsold inventory?

Samsungian · 05-14-2009, 03:18 AM

Its possible Pentax is suppling Wolf / Ritz camera brand new IstD for their bankruptcy sales. If so then why not count them as aps-c sales today? However if pentax dumped these IstD 2 years ago on Wolf Ritz then didn't that count as moving inventory 2 years ago?

Its interesting about the IstD. It remained above $1750 for quite some time. Pentax must have made a bunch of them that never sold at $1750. In just 5 years after IstD sold for $1750 I bought full frame 5D for $1750.

Kinda makes me wonder where affordable consumer grade full frame dslr pricing will be at in just 3 or 4 more years? Well for companies that choose to market full frame dslrs.

As someone said recently, if Pentax makes no full frame dslrs then they'll sell no full frame dslrs.

So in May 2009:

Canon has three full frame dslrs including 5D remainders

Nikon ALSO has three full frame dslrs

& Pentax offers no full frame dslrs.

For reference I'll add the New, May 2009 launch date, APS-C 15mp Canon w/ HD Video whose specs are up:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/613611-REG/Canon_3818B001_EOS_Rebel_T1i_Digital.html

For just $799 Launch Price.

I look foward to seeing how it compares to the K-7 Count Down dslr:

you know specs & price versus specs and price

Originally posted by Kunzite

You know, it looks like I can still find a brand new *istD around here. Nobody wants it, so I guess it will be around for some time.
Say, is this a "product being sold in todays market", or just remaining unsold inventory?

whatever7 · 05-14-2009, 06:21 AM

People keep saying Nikon has 2 FF bodies. I guess people never noticed the D3x nor consider it a Nikon.

Kunzite · 05-14-2009, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by Samsungian

For reference I'll add the New, May 2009 launch date, APS-C 15mp Canon w/ HD Video whose specs are up:

Canon | EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera (Camera Body)

For just $799 Launch Price.

I look foward to seeing how it compares to the K-7 Count Down dslr:

you know specs & price versus specs and price

I can tell you right now: there is no comparison, those cameras are simply in a different class/league.
Regarding price, well, you must pay for quality. Even if it's a Pentax.

View Poll Results: Will Pentax Succeed with the New K-7 and Strategy?
Yes	195	92.86%
No	15	7.14%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

05-13-2009, 02:51 PM	#174
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	Wild Adorama flushing out last of 5D Ha! I guess the $1750 I paid last year for 5D was a great deal, huh? You know since they are flushing the remainders for $1999.99 0296B002 Canon EOS-5D Digital SLR Camera Body, 12.8 Megapixels, Interchangeable Lens Camera - USA Warranty Lets figure this out, X number of 5D were made and canon is still suppling 5D to a major dealer. Who knows how many Canon are STILL sitting on. Maybe it'll take a year to dump them? Not sure if this is proof they are slow movers or because 5D mark II is far more desireable for additional $700. So if canon does not place/sell unsold 5D to adorama until September 2009 it seems to me this is still full frame product being sold in todays market. Sell'um or Crush'um. It cost canon money to make them, I'd say the one selling today would count towards a grand total of full frame dslr sales. Me? I really like my old tech, slow 3 frame per second 5D. Not a pro body, not weathersealed, but having a biggie sized viewfinder is always a pleasure to use. I won't buy another. Infact I won't buy another full frame dslr until this HD video becomes high tech. I could see passing on any brand new dslrs for 2 or 3 years from today. >>>>>Yen stengthened against dollar today, now a buck will buy you 95 yen. Just a few days ago it a Dollar Bill got you 100 yen. Currency trade complicates gear pricing. Originally posted by nosnoop This is getting silly. 5D is no longer in production, and it is no longer sold in large volume, so I said "it does not matter" as its sales volume would NOT affect the overall FF DSLR market share as you implied. I have used hard data from Japan; and US situation is similar (discontinued). If you have hard data to back up your claim, please do so.

05-13-2009, 07:25 PM	#176
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,325	Originally posted by David Hi Les, looks like we are from the some vintage. I think we are...I'm 60 years old.If you hanker for more metal and less plastic there is always the three FF limited lens, I can vouch for them.They have always had an appeal...I think a pancake lens on my KM would really add to it's portability. On a more sober note, there is an unsubstantiated comment that there seems to be a relatively higher incidence of cancer among long term darkroom users. Comment came from an career professional photographer friend of mine. But I do miss the smell.You know, I'm not surprised...I'm glad I just did darkroom stuff occasionally and did not do it as a career. Take Care David I still have all my medium format equipment. I use it every so often, not as much as I used to. I always derive great pleasure from my Mamiya. I have the 220 Pro F TLR that I bought new back in the '80's along with the 180 telephoto, 65 normal and a wide angle lens. It was always a nice procedure..the film wind, the leaf shutter, the composition , racking out the bellows to focus...oops can't forget the meter reading with my hand held Sekonic. I generally use/used it atop my tripod..with all these mechanical devices on it...it truly is going back to a past age...but I enjoy that bit of time travel. Have a good one...Les

05-14-2009, 03:18 AM	#178
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	If Pentax is suppling Wolf/Ritz Camera IstD Dslr, then count the sales Its possible Pentax is suppling Wolf / Ritz camera brand new IstD for their bankruptcy sales. If so then why not count them as aps-c sales today? However if pentax dumped these IstD 2 years ago on Wolf Ritz then didn't that count as moving inventory 2 years ago? Its interesting about the IstD. It remained above $1750 for quite some time. Pentax must have made a bunch of them that never sold at $1750. In just 5 years after IstD sold for $1750 I bought full frame 5D for $1750. Kinda makes me wonder where affordable consumer grade full frame dslr pricing will be at in just 3 or 4 more years? Well for companies that choose to market full frame dslrs. As someone said recently, if Pentax makes no full frame dslrs then they'll sell no full frame dslrs. So in May 2009: Canon has three full frame dslrs including 5D remainders Nikon ALSO has three full frame dslrs & Pentax offers no full frame dslrs. For reference I'll add the New, May 2009 launch date, APS-C 15mp Canon w/ HD Video whose specs are up: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/613611-REG/Canon_3818B001_EOS_Rebel_T1i_Digital.html For just $799 Launch Price. I look foward to seeing how it compares to the K-7 Count Down dslr: you know specs & price versus specs and price Originally posted by Kunzite You know, it looks like I can still find a brand new istD around here. Nobody wants it, so I guess it will be around for some time. Say, is this a "product being sold in todays market", or just remaining unsold inventory? Last edited by Samsungian; 05-14-2009 at 06:24 AM. Reason: Mybad, I forgot Nikon D3x*

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05-13-2009, 12:15 PM	#166
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa but the situation w/ 5D in USA is different - it is available and it is the cheapest FF body (<= USD $2K)... so you can't discount it I see it differently. In US, it is actually the same. Only remaining unsold inventory is available. In larger store such as B&H, you can no longer order a 5D. Quote: Pentax FF is aimed at the market where people (existing Pentax users) already have lenses to use on it..... but there enough people who will buy FF body only... I personally don't think there is anywhere enough buyers to justify the development cost. Quote: how's that different from the moment when istD was released ? At that time, istD's APS-C market was about explode and grow exponentially for years. OTOH, FF DSLR has always been a niche market; and it looks like it will remain as a niche market for years to come.

05-13-2009, 12:36 PM	#167
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,325	Originally posted by Samsungian Eos System started in 1987 Canon made certain FD lenses thru 1994 In 1990-1994 they made a 1.26x FD lens to Eos mount converter & it retailed for $250/ wholesaled $125. This allowed eos camera owners to adapt all of canon's white paint lenses and a few others 200mm and above. Like 14 lenses were adaptable to eos. My Canon dealer sheets from Christmas 1999 included their last offers of FD equiptment, lenses, cameras, assessories. B&H sold remainder FD lenses and stuff thru 2003 brand new with warranty. So YES Canon dumped FD, however it didn't happen in a day, or a year or 5 years. I figure you take 1987 eos launch thru 1994 last FD lens made thru 1999 FD lenses still orderable and whats that??? It took canon from 1987 to 1999 to "dump" their FD mount: 12 years. My F-1N film camera was made in 1994. Canon's unique I think in date code stamping cameras lenses and some assessories. its handy, I wish everyone did this. Canon FD shooters back then went to Nikon. Then Nikon shooters went to eos for their fast autofocus supertele's & then even later , full frame dslrs. Now Eos owners go to Nikon for D700 and lenses like 14-24 2.8 and 24-70 2.8. back & forth,... for this reason & that. Me? I say own both Canon and Nikon ;^) & while you're at it own pentax too! Wheres that put pentax? Have they gained from Canon and Nikon owners jumping ship or do they loose more market share with pentaxians jumping ship that may never return? ' Back in screw mount days, like late 1960's wasn't PENTAX #1 ??? Isn't that why spotmatics were the prop of choice in 1960's movies: Pentax meant quality, it was a recognized ICON. I think when K Mount hit in late 1976 they already lost #1 global sales position. Screw mounts are cool but whats faster to mount and dismount ??? A bayonet mount !!! Pentax was slow to see fast mount & dismount lenses were costing them customers. I think Pentax loses sales fto Nkon and Canon largely due to hardly any advertising .....can't recall last time I saw a print ad for the K20d in North America. Canon goes after the youth market with TV ads featuring a popular young female singer, lot's of adverts in print, lot's of product availabilty in bog box stores, etc. Pentax seems to be 'old lonely'. I know about Pentax as I've had them for 40+ years...many others think they have gone out of business or are in the process of doing so. I know two advanced amateurs who went out out of pentax. One has a Nikon D300 , the other a Canon 40D. They got into digita l a couple of years ago and felt at that time as Pentax just had the istD and a few digital lenses...compared to Nikon and Canon who were going full out with great cameras and lot's of accessories. Since the K10D Pentax has turned things around ...has great, well respected digital bodies and introduced some real fine lenses...although they do not compete lens for lens with Canikon. I wouldn't mind having a new Pentax 400...f5.6...scratch that...be different...maybe Pentax will make a 450mm. I have bought the 16-45, 55-300, 50 f1.4, 18-55, KM, K10D...but I do think Pentax needs to increase the amount of accessories and lenses. In my view over the past few years...Nikon has slipped badly as the former absolutely dominant professional camera...Canon has largely overwhelmed Nikon in the pro field...but Nikon has really gone into the consumer field quite well. Back in the '60's Canon was really not much of a force..sure they rested on their laurels with their '50's rangefinder...but in the '60's not much. They introduced the Canon F1 and many pro accessories and started their climb to the top of the pro favoured list...I'm still surprised. Pentax, IMO...they entered the digital field too late and have been playing catchup since then. Going by the sales figures they are behind even newcomer Sony. The future...I dunno...I'm doing my part by buying lot's of new Pentax equipment...but then I've been around a long time and no what Pentax has to offer...good stuff.

05-13-2009, 12:53 PM	#168
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by nosnoop I see it differently. In US, it is actually the same. Only remaining unsold inventory is available. In larger store such as B&H, you can no longer order a 5D. is Adorama big store enough for you ? they have it...

05-13-2009, 12:54 PM	#169
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by nosnoop I personally don't think there is anywhere enough buyers to justify the development cost. I personally do, so that is a stupid argument on your and my side too PS: do not forget - nobody is asking Pentax to have a state of the art FF body w/ its own sensor like some competitors do... equivalent of 5D will be good enough.

05-13-2009, 12:58 PM	#170
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by nosnoop At that time, *istD's APS-C market was about explode can you quote a number of researches (post some links) from that time (when prices for APS-C 6mp bodies were as they were back then) saying that "APS-C market was about explode" ? otherwise you are saying things about the past knowing already what happened.

05-13-2009, 01:05 PM	#171
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa is Adorama big store enough for you ? they have it... It does not matter. Canon USA no longer has it, what you can buy now is just remaining unsold inventory. Production has been stopped for quite a while already. Adorama still having stocks just means that sales have been slow.

05-13-2009, 01:07 PM	#172
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by nosnoop It does not matter. of course - if something does not suit your point of view it does not matter...

05-13-2009, 02:18 PM	#173
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa of course - if something does not suit your point of view it does not matter... This is getting silly. 5D is no longer in production, and it is no longer sold in large volume, so I said "it does not matter" as its sales volume would NOT affect the overall FF DSLR market share as you implied. I have used hard data from Japan; and US situation is similar (discontinued). If you have hard data to back up your claim, please do so.

05-13-2009, 04:49 PM	#175
David Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sandy Bay, Tasmania, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 347	Hi Les, looks like we are from the some vintage. If you hanker for more metal and less plastic there is always the three FF limited lens, I can vouch for them. On a more sober note, there is an unsubstantiated comment that there seems to be a relatively higher incidence of cancer among long term darkroom users. Comment came from an career professional photographer friend of mine. But I do miss the smell. Take Care David

05-13-2009, 10:47 PM	#177
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Samsungian So if canon does not place/sell unsold 5D to adorama until September 2009 it seems to me this is still full frame product being sold in todays market. You know, it looks like I can still find a brand new *istD around here. Nobody wants it, so I guess it will be around for some time. Say, is this a "product being sold in todays market", or just remaining unsold inventory?

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05-14-2009, 06:21 AM	#179
whatever7 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 278	People keep saying Nikon has 2 FF bodies. I guess people never noticed the D3x nor consider it a Nikon.

05-14-2009, 06:57 AM	#180
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Samsungian For reference I'll add the New, May 2009 launch date, APS-C 15mp Canon w/ HD Video whose specs are up: Canon \| EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera (Camera Body) For just $799 Launch Price. I look foward to seeing how it compares to the K-7 Count Down dslr: you know specs & price versus specs and price I can tell you right now: there is no comparison, those cameras are simply in a different class/league. Regarding price, well, you must pay for quality. Even if it's a Pentax.