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View Poll Results: Will Pentax Succeed with the New K-7 and Strategy?
Yes 19592.86%
No 157.14%
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05-14-2009, 02:34 PM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
But that's the thing. How long Pentax could survive would not be decided by what we think; instead, it will be decided by Hoya's board of directors and stock holders, and their expectations of profitability and market share.

So yes, in a way, the market share is important to how we will take our photos in the future.
In a way. But company survival really isn't *about* competing at being the exact things Canon and Nikon are marketing: in fact making the basics afterthoughts you have to pay more for.


As Toyota's finding out, bigger isn't always better. I don't care if they're *Voightlander-sized:* Cosina's making money off some (very nice) budget film rangefinders made out of Nikon FG's while multinationals lose money and set people glowering to how 'film (and now apparently still photography) is 'dead.'

I mean, hey. If hey stop making what we need, we stop buying new stuff. C'est la vie. Take it from a Canon FD holdout. One can get by. It's the companies that ought to be afraid of us, not the other way around.

05-14-2009, 02:40 PM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
In a way. But company survival really isn't *about* competing at being the exact things Canon and Nikon are marketing: in fact making the basics afterthoughts you have to pay more for.
And I can see that Pentax has been trying to avoid that; Hoya also stated the same thing. But they got to do something to improve on their 1.6% market share in Japan in 2008, otherwise they won't last too long. And I hope K-7 and its cheaper/lower end sibling would do the trick this year.
05-14-2009, 02:42 PM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
And I can see that Pentax has been trying to avoid that; Hoya also stated the same thing. But they got to do something to improve on their 1.6% market share in Japan in 2008, otherwise they won't last too long. And I hope K-7 and its cheaper/lower end sibling would do the trick this year.
Well, I'm certainly rooting for them to do well. Frankly, if someone doesn't make a negative scanner that doesn't give me fits, I'm just buying some stamps.
05-14-2009, 07:09 PM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
none of these work for you?
Pentax Ultra-Wide Prime Lenses
Even a 20mm would only be a 30mm on a DSLR.

05-14-2009, 07:25 PM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by raymeedc Quote
Even a 20mm would only be a 30mm on a DSLR.
There are 3- 15mm and 1- 18mm manual focus lenses there. Of course they may not be easy to find or cheap. Add the plethora of APS-C lenses in the 18mm or less primes and zoom autofocus lenses and I see little reason to think there is a shortage of sub 28mm ff equiv lenses....
Pentax Manual Focus
15 F3.5 SMC A (BUILT IN) 35MM SLR MANUAL FOCUS SUPER WIDE ANGLE LENS
$819.00 EX at KEH now.
Granted there are a millon cheap 24mm's out there but APS needs are why there cheap. They weren't that cheap on FF and going to 20 was a lot more expensive.
The Pentax 24-50 A zoom was the widest I could afford at the time....
cheap (now) vivitar 19mm...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vivitar-19-3-8-SLR-lens-for-Pentax_W0QQitemZ170330035225...3%3A1|294%3A50
And if I can remember that far back I'd killed for a quality 21mm f2.8 for $500.........
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800622943-USE/Pentax_21510_Super_Wide_Angle_SMCP_DA.html
Pentax Super Wide Angle SMCP-DA 14mm f/2.8 ED (IF) Autofocus Lens

Come to think about it "back in the day" you could barely give away a used 35mm.........

Last edited by jeffkrol; 05-14-2009 at 07:58 PM.
05-14-2009, 08:41 PM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
There are 3- 15mm and 1- 18mm manual focus lenses there. Of course they may not be easy to find or cheap.
Pentax Manual Focus
15 F3.5 SMC A (BUILT IN) 35MM SLR MANUAL FOCUS SUPER WIDE ANGLE LENS
$819.00 EX at KEH now.
These options are too rich for my blood. When I want to go wide, I forego the digital option & reach for a Spotmatic or KX..... one of the beautiful aspects of backwards compatibility.
05-15-2009, 08:35 AM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
Expanding on this, I think the K-7 release is just about perfect for my purposes. Assuming I buy the K-7 this year and Pentax comes out with a full frame in the next two years, I won't mind waiting an addition a year to let it drop down to the affordable range. That would be about a three to four year period, and I'm hoping I can take a lot of pictures in that interim time

I personally know a few professional photographers looking to start out who are already taking this approach with the Nikon D700 and Canon 5D Mark II -- waiting about a year for these models to become affordable. I think it also explains the ongoing popularity of the Canon 5D -- it sits well in a niche for the performance it delivers. If I was going to switch brands to go full frame, I would be much more likely to buy a 5D than say a new Sony A900 for $1,000 more dollars.
A agree. This is another reason why Sony failing in FF department. There are plenty used 5D on US market starting from $1200 with 5000-10000K clicks. And there are still new ones available starting for $1800-2000
05-15-2009, 08:48 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
But that's the thing. How long Pentax could survive would not be decided by what we think; instead, it will be decided by Hoya's board of directors and stock holders, and their expectations of profitability and market share.

So yes, in a way, the market share is important to how we will take our photos in the future.
I do not see it this way. This year I will buy FF Camera and 70-200 2.8 lens.
This is roughly $4000, and thanks to Hoya's board of directors and stock holders this money are not coming Pentax way. I will be also buying 50 F 1.4, 17-40 F4 and flash gun early next year in whatever mount my future FF camera will be. I've been waiting for the last year and a half and listen to a lot of BS from Pentax , Hoya and a bunch of people here on PF board that Pentax and Pentax croud do not need this camera, market share this, market share that, and yet I am a 15+ years Pentax user is going for it.

05-15-2009, 09:01 AM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
I do not see it this way. This year I will buy FF Camera and 70-200 2.8 lens.
This is roughly $4000, and thanks to Hoya's board of directors and stock holders this money are not coming Pentax way. I will be also buying 50 F 1.4, 17-40 F4 and flash gun early next year in whatever mount my future FF camera will be. I've been waiting for the last year and a half and listen to a lot of BS from Pentax , Hoya and a bunch of people here on PF board that Pentax and Pentax croud do not need this camera, market share this, market share that, and yet I am a 15+ years Pentax user is going for it.
Your mind's made up. A company can't make 100% of its products fit 100% of its customer base...

My Grandma bought Chryslers her whole life. If she could still see to drive and wanted a newer car, we would advise against buying one for obvious reasons.

If Pentax doesn't entice you any longer...what's keeping you? I don't want to sound like a d$%#head but really...
05-15-2009, 09:34 AM   #205
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Good For You !

I found the idea of cash'n out one brand for another an obstacle. I've read of so many who move from one brand to another and sometimes back again.

I had planned to "move on" from pentax when I added eos last spring. Now I am happy to have more than one brand this past year. In two or three years its impossible for me to say if my multiband kit will still exist but for now it works for me. Nice thing about ebay and buy sell opportunities you can recoup more of the purchase price if you buy right. For example my new eos 70-200mm 2.8 IS cost me $1459. If you study price, this was a very good deal from B&H last spring 2008.

In my move to add eos the 70-200mm 2.8 IS was my first two canon lenses I bought new. Easily this 2.8 zoom is the best lens I've ever owned covering this focal length. And as a bonus with IS lenses and VR lenses (nikon), you can see the image stabilize in the viewfinder. And something you might enjoy, add the canon 1.4x II Teleconverter and you'll be amazed with speedy autofocus, full metadata capture, & super fast image stabilization. All eos dslrs and eos film cameras drive usm lens motors too.

I think its wise for most anyone who's curious about full frame to add full frame canon or nikon to supplement you pentax gear. For now, I've choosen to keep pentax for their aps-c crop format: K20D is very nice camera.

But as I said, 1-2-3 years down the road its hard to say if I'll still have most of pentax gear. Some of it is adaptable to Eos, so I wouldn't ever fully cash out unless I wanted something else entirely. For me its who's offering the best hd dslr in 12-18 months... Right now, today nobody gets my vote. We'll see whats up with K-7, but with a Panasonic GH1 I can also adapt every pentax lens and assessory I own: with no added optics. So right now if I wanted HD video I'd buy GH1 and a few more adapters. Maybe $200 worth & I'm golden.

Bottomline, I have no regrets owning more than one brand right now. Having full frame takes the mystery out of whats up with full frame. Hands on is always the best way to make a long term decision.

QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
I do not see it this way. This year I will buy FF Camera and 70-200 2.8 lens.
This is roughly $4000, and thanks to Hoya's board of directors and stock holders this money are not coming Pentax way. I will be also buying 50 F 1.4, 17-40 F4 and flash gun early next year in whatever mount my future FF camera will be. I've been waiting for the last year and a half and listen to a lot of BS from Pentax , Hoya and a bunch of people here on PF board that Pentax and Pentax croud do not need this camera, market share this, market share that, and yet I am a 15+ years Pentax user is going for it.
05-15-2009, 11:51 AM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I found the idea of cash'n out one brand for another an obstacle. I've read of so many who move from one brand to another and sometimes back again.

I had planned to "move on" from pentax when I added eos last spring. Now I am happy to have more than one brand this past year. In two or three years its impossible for me to say if my multiband kit will still exist but for now it works for me. Nice thing about ebay and buy sell opportunities you can recoup more of the purchase price if you buy right. For example my new eos 70-200mm 2.8 IS cost me $1459. If you study price, this was a very good deal from B&H last spring 2008.

In my move to add eos the 70-200mm 2.8 IS was my first two canon lenses I bought new. Easily this 2.8 zoom is the best lens I've ever owned covering this focal length. And as a bonus with IS lenses and VR lenses (nikon), you can see the image stabilize in the viewfinder. And something you might enjoy, add the canon 1.4x II Teleconverter and you'll be amazed with speedy autofocus, full metadata capture, & super fast image stabilization. All eos dslrs and eos film cameras drive usm lens motors too.

I think its wise for most anyone who's curious about full frame to add full frame canon or nikon to supplement you pentax gear. For now, I've choosen to keep pentax for their aps-c crop format: K20D is very nice camera.

But as I said, 1-2-3 years down the road its hard to say if I'll still have most of pentax gear. Some of it is adaptable to Eos, so I wouldn't ever fully cash out unless I wanted something else entirely. For me its who's offering the best hd dslr in 12-18 months... Right now, today nobody gets my vote. We'll see whats up with K-7, but with a Panasonic GH1 I can also adapt every pentax lens and assessory I own: with no added optics. So right now if I wanted HD video I'd buy GH1 and a few more adapters. Maybe $200 worth & I'm golden.

Bottomline, I have no regrets owning more than one brand right now. Having full frame takes the mystery out of whats up with full frame. Hands on is always the best way to make a long term decision.
It looks like you got yourself a Canon FF, how you like it, compared to K20D?
05-15-2009, 12:03 PM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by xxxxx Quote
It looks like you got yourself a Canon FF, how you like it, compared to K20D?
It's pretty obvious that you don't read too much this forum, don't you?

Radu
05-15-2009, 01:25 PM   #208
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LOL! That's a "kind" response, Radu
05-15-2009, 03:23 PM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
LOL! That's a "kind" response, Radu
Hi, Ryan!

I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for Samsungian the Lord of the discounts and Master of wise shopping. My only complaint towards him is why the heck he doesn't put the same story about when he bought what and how much (or little? ) did those cost him in his sig and get done with. But I guess I know the answer too: because if he does that he'll probably never have the reason to post again.

Radu
05-15-2009, 05:35 PM   #210
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market share figures alone are not essential for determining survival. what ratmagiclady mentioned is, strangely, exactly why the market share of pentax is more than numbers: niche, to put it in a word. pentax is targeting a niche clientelle which tends to be quite stable and strong, the game they play is a completely different one from canon and nikon, it's not better, it's not worse, it's just different. i for one like the rules of their game so far, they seem to suith me perfectly, so i hope they play their cards right, because if they do, as ratmagiclady said, they'll keep delivering what we need.

radu: you crack me up. "in verva" tonight, as they say, eh ?

edit: i just realized: "loyal member". what the hell have i done? time to get back to shooting
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