Are These New Photos of K-7 Real ?

Asahiflex · 05-18-2009, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by matthis

Perspective correction is never done by tilting the lens but only by shifting. It does not matter if the lens or the sensor is shifted. Focus is not affected by shifting.

Indeed, and that was what I was referring to (to RuiC).

lol101 · 05-18-2009, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by remnant

I think this button activates a hybrid viewfinder. Partially a typical mirrored image from the penta-prism and partially an electronic image such as a histogram or white balance. I think that is the entirely new feature...

Guys really... this is very similar to the symbol as used in K10/K20 for the jpeg picture styles...

Pentax K20D Review: 11. Menus: Digital Photography Review

Rectangle is for tone curve, hexagon is for color space.

It used to be activated by Fn + OK button but now that Fn is gone, it has simply been assigned to the right button... (which used to be ISO but since there is now a dedicated ISO button...).

falconeye · 05-18-2009, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by lol101

Rectangle is for tone curve, hexagon is for color space.

Yes, this is the favourite guess by now.

But would a 645D have such a button? And if so, wouldn't it be an open hexagon rather than a filled one?

When pressing the Fn button, you had a choice of 5 selections:
- Custom image (an open hexagon)
- Drive mode (a rectangle)
- WB
- ISO
- Flash

WB and Flash are still there, ISO has moved as button to another location. Drive mode got the timer symbol as a button (and I assume that bracketing now is a drive mode).

Custom image is a menu item on the K-m. So, it is indeed the one missing button from the Fn functions anyway.

thibs · 05-18-2009, 02:16 AM

We might be able to reassign that button to drive mode.

**RuiC** · 05-18-2009, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by RuiC

OK. Maybe you are talking about correcting this distortion in body:

Originally posted by matthis

Perspective correction is never done by tilting the lens but only by shifting. It does not matter if the lens or the sensor is shifted. Focus is not affected by shifting.

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Indeed, and that was what I was referring to (to RuiC).

To begin with, perspective distortion is introduced when you tilt the camera up for the shot. It is logical that to correct it you need to tilt back the image sensor, film or whatever. When you shift the optics their optical axis is no longer perpendicular to the film plane. Then if you have no shift lens then you have to make sensor plane tilt to obtain perpendicularity? Is this correct?

matthis · 05-18-2009, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by RuiC

To begin with, perspective distortion is introduced when you tilt the camera up for the shot. It is logical that to correct it you need to tilt back the image sensor, film or whatever. When you shift the optics their optical axis is no longer perpendicular to the film plane. Then if you have no shift lens then you have to make sensor plane tilt to obtain perpendicularity? Is this correct?

Perspective control lens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Asahiflex · 05-18-2009, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by matthis

Perspective control lens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Matthis' link explains it very good. When you have a shift lens, the camera needs to be perfectly horizontal. Without a shift lens, but a movable sensor (in the X and Y axis), the camera (and thus the sensor) needs to be perfectly horizontal too.

But let's not expect too much from this feature. However, for me it's quite handy if the camera can fix the horizon if the camera isn't quite level.

**RuiC** · 05-18-2009, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by matthis

Perspective control lens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Matthis' link explains it very good. When you have a shift lens, the camera needs to be perfectly horizontal. Without a shift lens, but a movable sensor (in the X and Y axis), the camera (and thus the sensor) needs to be perfectly horizontal too.

But let's not expect too much from this feature. However, for me it's quite handy if the camera can fix the horizon if the camera isn't quite level.

OK Thanks. I need to practice a little more. Anyhow they say that a lens shift can go as long as 11mm. On the sensor side the ratio will permit maybe 2~3mm max shift to accomplish the operation.

Maybe you can do this in camera:

United States Patent Application: 0080266426

Turo · 05-18-2009, 08:51 AM

That's really interesting.
The Pentax K28/3.5 Shift lens can shift up to 11mm, so if the sensor can only be moved a few mm the correction made is not going to be spectacular...but maybe if they implement this patent is possible that the in camera processor can correct further distortions.

Is all this a possibility?

**RuiC** · 05-18-2009, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Turo

That's really interesting.
The Pentax K28/3.5 Shift lens can shift up to 11mm, so if the sensor can only be moved a few mm the correction made is not going to be spectacular...but maybe if they implement this patent is possible that the in camera processor can correct further distortions.

Is all this a possibility?

I believe that 2mm shift on the sensor will be equivalent to a much greater shift on the lens. I can't make any calculations on this.

muustuus · 05-18-2009, 09:31 AM

With 2mm shift vertically and 3mm horisontal you could do a four shot burst that would be equivalent of about a 30mm x 20mm sensor. This is quite close to the 1.3x crop. It could be useful on some situations maybe. :P

But I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have this action.

-ö

falconeye · 05-18-2009, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by RuiC

I believe that 2mm shift on the sensor will be equivalent to a much greater shift on the lens. I can't make any calculations on this.

Oh, the calculations are easy. Because the factor is 1.

Ickx · 05-18-2009, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by HermanLee

Seriously guys,

Look at the button on the right of OK button:

what is that Hexagonal button on the right for?

I have no idea. Must check my new 645D first.
Let's see ....... hmmmm. Nope it is not for the viewfinder but I have no idea what it is for

kthung · 05-18-2009, 05:04 PM

Dedicated ISO BUTTON FINALLY!@!!!!

nosnoop · 05-18-2009, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by kthung

Dedicated ISO BUTTON FINALLY!@!!!!

This has got to be one of the most puzzling requested/wanted feature I found.

K20D/10D has one of the best ISO integrated exposure control, with Sv, TAV mode; and you can control the ISO directly using the dials WITHOUT pressing any buttons.

And in other exposure modes, you simply press the OK button to change the ISO - i.e. it acts exactly like an ISO button.

So why do we need an separate ISO button? For the reviewers and those who don't read the manuals, I suppose.

05-18-2009, 06:58 AM	#203
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by matthis Perspective control lens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Originally posted by Asahiflex Matthis' link explains it very good. When you have a shift lens, the camera needs to be perfectly horizontal. Without a shift lens, but a movable sensor (in the X and Y axis), the camera (and thus the sensor) needs to be perfectly horizontal too. But let's not expect too much from this feature. However, for me it's quite handy if the camera can fix the horizon if the camera isn't quite level. OK Thanks. I need to practice a little more. Anyhow they say that a lens shift can go as long as 11mm. On the sensor side the ratio will permit maybe 2~3mm max shift to accomplish the operation. Maybe you can do this in camera: United States Patent Application: 0080266426 Attached Images

05-18-2009, 10:43 AM	#208
Ickx New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Poland Posts: 3	Originally posted by HermanLee Seriously guys, Look at the button on the right of OK button: what is that Hexagonal button on the right for? I have no idea. Must check my new 645D first. Let's see ....... hmmmm. Nope it is not for the viewfinder but I have no idea what it is for Attached Images

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05-18-2009, 01:04 AM	#196
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Originally posted by matthis Perspective correction is never done by tilting the lens but only by shifting. It does not matter if the lens or the sensor is shifted. Focus is not affected by shifting. Indeed, and that was what I was referring to (to RuiC).

05-18-2009, 01:18 AM	#197
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899	Originally posted by remnant I think this button activates a hybrid viewfinder. Partially a typical mirrored image from the penta-prism and partially an electronic image such as a histogram or white balance. I think that is the entirely new feature... Guys really... this is very similar to the symbol as used in K10/K20 for the jpeg picture styles... Pentax K20D Review: 11. Menus: Digital Photography Review Rectangle is for tone curve, hexagon is for color space. It used to be activated by Fn + OK button but now that Fn is gone, it has simply been assigned to the right button... (which used to be ISO but since there is now a dedicated ISO button...).

05-18-2009, 01:50 AM	#198
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by lol101 Rectangle is for tone curve, hexagon is for color space. Yes, this is the favourite guess by now. But would a 645D have such a button? And if so, wouldn't it be an open hexagon rather than a filled one? When pressing the Fn button, you had a choice of 5 selections: - Custom image (an open hexagon) - Drive mode (a rectangle) - WB - ISO - Flash WB and Flash are still there, ISO has moved as button to another location. Drive mode got the timer symbol as a button (and I assume that bracketing now is a drive mode). Custom image is a menu item on the K-m. So, it is indeed the one missing button from the Fn functions anyway.

05-18-2009, 02:16 AM	#199
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	We might be able to reassign that button to drive mode.

05-18-2009, 03:23 AM	#200
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by RuiC OK. Maybe you are talking about correcting this distortion in body: Originally posted by matthis Perspective correction is never done by tilting the lens but only by shifting. It does not matter if the lens or the sensor is shifted. Focus is not affected by shifting. Originally posted by Asahiflex Indeed, and that was what I was referring to (to RuiC). To begin with, perspective distortion is introduced when you tilt the camera up for the shot. It is logical that to correct it you need to tilt back the image sensor, film or whatever. When you shift the optics their optical axis is no longer perpendicular to the film plane. Then if you have no shift lens then you have to make sensor plane tilt to obtain perpendicularity? Is this correct?

05-18-2009, 05:01 AM	#201
matthis New Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 13	Originally posted by RuiC To begin with, perspective distortion is introduced when you tilt the camera up for the shot. It is logical that to correct it you need to tilt back the image sensor, film or whatever. When you shift the optics their optical axis is no longer perpendicular to the film plane. Then if you have no shift lens then you have to make sensor plane tilt to obtain perpendicularity? Is this correct? Perspective control lens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

05-18-2009, 05:04 AM	#202
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Originally posted by matthis Perspective control lens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Matthis' link explains it very good. When you have a shift lens, the camera needs to be perfectly horizontal. Without a shift lens, but a movable sensor (in the X and Y axis), the camera (and thus the sensor) needs to be perfectly horizontal too. But let's not expect too much from this feature. However, for me it's quite handy if the camera can fix the horizon if the camera isn't quite level.

05-18-2009, 08:51 AM	#204
Turo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chengdu Posts: 31	That's really interesting. The Pentax K28/3.5 Shift lens can shift up to 11mm, so if the sensor can only be moved a few mm the correction made is not going to be spectacular...but maybe if they implement this patent is possible that the in camera processor can correct further distortions. Is all this a possibility?

05-18-2009, 09:03 AM	#205
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by Turo That's really interesting. The Pentax K28/3.5 Shift lens can shift up to 11mm, so if the sensor can only be moved a few mm the correction made is not going to be spectacular...but maybe if they implement this patent is possible that the in camera processor can correct further distortions. Is all this a possibility? I believe that 2mm shift on the sensor will be equivalent to a much greater shift on the lens. I can't make any calculations on this.

05-18-2009, 09:31 AM	#206
muustuus Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 125	With 2mm shift vertically and 3mm horisontal you could do a four shot burst that would be equivalent of about a 30mm x 20mm sensor. This is quite close to the 1.3x crop. It could be useful on some situations maybe. :P But I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have this action. -ö

05-18-2009, 10:19 AM	#207
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by RuiC I believe that 2mm shift on the sensor will be equivalent to a much greater shift on the lens. I can't make any calculations on this. Oh, the calculations are easy. Because the factor is 1.

05-18-2009, 05:04 PM	#209
kthung Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 359	Dedicated ISO BUTTON FINALLY!@!!!!

05-18-2009, 05:42 PM	#210
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by kthung Dedicated ISO BUTTON FINALLY!@!!!! This has got to be one of the most puzzling requested/wanted feature I found. K20D/10D has one of the best ISO integrated exposure control, with Sv, TAV mode; and you can control the ISO directly using the dials WITHOUT pressing any buttons. And in other exposure modes, you simply press the OK button to change the ISO - i.e. it acts exactly like an ISO button. So why do we need an separate ISO button? For the reviewers and those who don't read the manuals, I suppose.