K-7 introducing electronic viewfinder?

Asahiflex · 05-15-2009, 09:31 AM

It's nice and all, but let's not get our hopes up too high. So far I haven't seen any proof that Pentax will include this patented system in the K-7. I'm perfectly happy without that system but if it's true then kudos to Pentax!

falconeye · 05-15-2009, 09:36 AM

Ok, blende8 remembers how a schema drawing of a Pentax viewfinder looked liked. It was from a power point presentation and leaked on pbase. Disappeared since and he didn't save it

But he remembers

It had a little display on the front part of the prism, possibly with little mirrors.

From my understanding, an lcd on the front part of the prism would be an overlay over some inner part of the image frame only (and needs a lens in front to have the correct virtual distance).

Starting from ogl's comment and blende8's memory, I'll speculate the following may hold true:

Quote:

The K-7 has an optical viewfinder (near 100%) with a switchable electronic overlay (albeit at significantly lower magnification than the optical VF) which can show low-rez LV during video capture or contrast AF operation (mirror up). As it may show a live histogram (from 77 segments) overlayed over the optical image (mirror down).

4 days 20 min

cateto · 05-15-2009, 09:46 AM

Ony a few days to wait; but as I said before, my bet is that the main feature in the K-7 will be this one. It would be nonsense to make all this noise about the K-7 but release an almost standard dSLR.

In other words, what would be the point of the K-7 if the only new features are defined by "improved" stufff (improved autofocus, improved low light noise, etc) and video??

I simply don't buy it. And unless Pentax is hiding a joker, I think all sings point out to EVF as the KEY feature of the K-7.

But I repeat: no inside info, just digging around the net and connecting the dots.

Kunzite · 05-15-2009, 10:22 AM

Should I take this bet? More money for lenses, that would be a good thing... for me

Neah, it wouldn't be fair. Not fair at all.

Cateto, you're really enjoying daydreaming

Where is the point? Search for simple answers, and you'll find the truth. No need to connect the dots, when there are no dots to connect...
The K-7 is a more advanced camera than the K20D. We asked for a more advanced camera. We wanted tons of new features, and we'll find them on the K7. That's all there is about this camera. Pentax listens to it's customers, and soon we'll see the result.

falconeye · 05-15-2009, 10:40 AM

@cateto, I am with Kunzite. Whether the hybrid EVF is true or not, the K-7 seems to be an extra-ordinarily well thought out and crafted little Pro camera. The MX of modern times. The hybrid EVF could actually turn it into the LX of modern times (if VF would be replaceable and sensor be FF ...). But what's wrong about an MX?

Gimbal · 05-15-2009, 10:47 AM

How is the live histogram superimposed on top of the live view going to work? Is the sensor supposed to take a reading through the half transparent mirror (with the secondary mirror folded away somehow)?

falconeye · 05-15-2009, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

How is the live histogram superimposed on top of the live view going to work? Is the sensor supposed to take a reading through the half transparent mirror (with the secondary mirror folded away somehow)?

I thought about it when I wrote my speculation above. I don't think they would have used a semi-transparent mirror (although that may come in later models). But with 77 metering segments, they would have enough data for some sort of live histogram. Still not entirely save for an "expose to the right". But nearly so.

illdefined · 05-15-2009, 11:07 AM

i appreciate everyone trying to tame down expectations, but frankly its much too late for that.

there are countless K-7 threads here and elsewhere and all of them are littered with hopeful posts about a hybrid VF. Pentax let too much time pass and did nothing to quell these rumors, so at this point, no matter how solid the K-7 is as a camera, it will be a disappointment without a hybrid VF. that's just how expectations work.

lunelson · 05-15-2009, 11:10 AM

I'm with Gimbal. I don't see how it's physically possible to have this hybrid viewfinder unless the optical view is dimmer than it would be otherwise. I think the viewfinder is dim enough as is, especially on a lens as slow as, say, the kit lens.

Photomy · 05-15-2009, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by cateto

Read again my post (and the blog for more details). EVF, as implemented by Pentax, means optical view of the image (just in traditional dSLR cameras) AND electronic information superimposed on top of it; as for instance, live histogram, live view, magnification of image if required, etc.

In short: it means keeping the optical view of the image (which has no competition regarding quality) AND all of the nice thingies of electronic screens, but superimposed. I am speaking of pure theory, but if this is properly implemented, it mixes the best of both worlds.

And remember: Pentax patented it.

In my opinion, simply superimposing a small, real time, dynamic range histogram onto the optical viewfinder in the corner would be huge.

jsherman999 · 05-15-2009, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Note to Pentax: EVF's suck.

Well, they have up until now, anyway. We'll have to see if there's any value-add with this new one. If there is a new one.

robgo2 · 05-15-2009, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by cateto

Read again my post (and the blog for more details). EVF, as implemented by Pentax, means optical view of the image (just in traditional dSLR cameras) AND electronic information superimposed on top of it; as for instance, live histogram, live view, magnification of image if required, etc.

Live histogram in the optical VF would be extremely useful. I would like to be able to bring up the display with the press of a button and make it disappear with the same. Think how easy it would be to adjust exposure before taking the shot. It's similar to what you can do already with the digital preview function, but oh so much better.

Rob

sezme · 05-15-2009, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Gimbal

How is the live histogram superimposed on top of the live view going to work? Is the sensor supposed to take a reading through the half transparent mirror (with the secondary mirror folded away somehow)?

Well, how about this, then: click the on/off switch to Digital Preview, the (new faster) mirror flips up just long enough to get a sensor reading, but instead of a preview appearing on the rear LCD panel, we get a histogram in the viewfinder, all without removing one's eye from the camera.

lol101 · 05-15-2009, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by sezme

Well, how about this, then: click the on/off switch to Digital Preview, the (new faster) mirror flips up just long enough to get a sensor reading, but instead of a preview appearing on the rear LCD panel, we get a histogram in the viewfinder, all without removing one's eye from the camera.

Yes! That's the one I want to see!

If the histogram isn't extracted from the sensor, it's next to useless.

Miserere · 05-15-2009, 01:22 PM

Cateto, I read that patent too, but I didn't see any indication of an EVF. I wrote about it here. In short, I think it's just a patent to create a large image on a viewfinder that's closer to the mirror, thus enabling a small body to have the same image size as a larger body without the new system.

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05-15-2009, 09:31 AM	#31
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	It's nice and all, but let's not get our hopes up too high. So far I haven't seen any proof that Pentax will include this patented system in the K-7. I'm perfectly happy without that system but if it's true then kudos to Pentax!

05-15-2009, 09:36 AM	#32
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Ok, blende8 remembers how a schema drawing of a Pentax viewfinder looked liked. It was from a power point presentation and leaked on pbase. Disappeared since and he didn't save it But he remembers It had a little display on the front part of the prism, possibly with little mirrors. From my understanding, an lcd on the front part of the prism would be an overlay over some inner part of the image frame only (and needs a lens in front to have the correct virtual distance). Starting from ogl's comment and blende8's memory, I'll speculate the following may hold true: Quote: The K-7 has an optical viewfinder (near 100%) with a switchable electronic overlay (albeit at significantly lower magnification than the optical VF) which can show low-rez LV during video capture or contrast AF operation (mirror up). As it may show a live histogram (from 77 segments) overlayed over the optical image (mirror down). 4 days 20 min

05-15-2009, 09:46 AM	#33
cateto Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 189 Original Poster	Ony a few days to wait; but as I said before, my bet is that the main feature in the K-7 will be this one. It would be nonsense to make all this noise about the K-7 but release an almost standard dSLR. In other words, what would be the point of the K-7 if the only new features are defined by "improved" stufff (improved autofocus, improved low light noise, etc) and video?? I simply don't buy it. And unless Pentax is hiding a joker, I think all sings point out to EVF as the KEY feature of the K-7. But I repeat: no inside info, just digging around the net and connecting the dots.

05-15-2009, 10:22 AM	#34
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Should I take this bet? More money for lenses, that would be a good thing... for me Neah, it wouldn't be fair. Not fair at all. Cateto, you're really enjoying daydreaming Where is the point? Search for simple answers, and you'll find the truth. No need to connect the dots, when there are no dots to connect... The K-7 is a more advanced camera than the K20D. We asked for a more advanced camera. We wanted tons of new features, and we'll find them on the K7. That's all there is about this camera. Pentax listens to it's customers, and soon we'll see the result.

05-15-2009, 10:40 AM	#35
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	@cateto, I am with Kunzite. Whether the hybrid EVF is true or not, the K-7 seems to be an extra-ordinarily well thought out and crafted little Pro camera. The MX of modern times. The hybrid EVF could actually turn it into the LX of modern times (if VF would be replaceable and sensor be FF ...). But what's wrong about an MX?

05-15-2009, 10:47 AM	#36
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	How is the live histogram superimposed on top of the live view going to work? Is the sensor supposed to take a reading through the half transparent mirror (with the secondary mirror folded away somehow)?

05-15-2009, 10:58 AM	#37
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Gimbal How is the live histogram superimposed on top of the live view going to work? Is the sensor supposed to take a reading through the half transparent mirror (with the secondary mirror folded away somehow)? I thought about it when I wrote my speculation above. I don't think they would have used a semi-transparent mirror (although that may come in later models). But with 77 metering segments, they would have enough data for some sort of live histogram. Still not entirely save for an "expose to the right". But nearly so.

05-15-2009, 11:07 AM	#38
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	i appreciate everyone trying to tame down expectations, but frankly its much too late for that. there are countless K-7 threads here and elsewhere and all of them are littered with hopeful posts about a hybrid VF. Pentax let too much time pass and did nothing to quell these rumors, so at this point, no matter how solid the K-7 is as a camera, it will be a disappointment without a hybrid VF. that's just how expectations work.

05-15-2009, 11:10 AM	#39
lunelson Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 80	I'm with Gimbal. I don't see how it's physically possible to have this hybrid viewfinder unless the optical view is dimmer than it would be otherwise. I think the viewfinder is dim enough as is, especially on a lens as slow as, say, the kit lens.

05-15-2009, 11:59 AM	#40
Photomy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 174	Originally posted by cateto Read again my post (and the blog for more details). EVF, as implemented by Pentax, means optical view of the image (just in traditional dSLR cameras) AND electronic information superimposed on top of it; as for instance, live histogram, live view, magnification of image if required, etc. In short: it means keeping the optical view of the image (which has no competition regarding quality) AND all of the nice thingies of electronic screens, but superimposed. I am speaking of pure theory, but if this is properly implemented, it mixes the best of both worlds. And remember: Pentax patented it. In my opinion, simply superimposing a small, real time, dynamic range histogram onto the optical viewfinder in the corner would be huge.

05-15-2009, 12:06 PM	#41
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by Wheatfield Note to Pentax: EVF's suck. Well, they have up until now, anyway. We'll have to see if there's any value-add with this new one. If there is a new one.

05-15-2009, 12:34 PM	#42
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by cateto Read again my post (and the blog for more details). EVF, as implemented by Pentax, means optical view of the image (just in traditional dSLR cameras) AND electronic information superimposed on top of it; as for instance, live histogram, live view, magnification of image if required, etc. Live histogram in the optical VF would be extremely useful. I would like to be able to bring up the display with the press of a button and make it disappear with the same. Think how easy it would be to adjust exposure before taking the shot. It's similar to what you can do already with the digital preview function, but oh so much better. Rob

05-15-2009, 12:57 PM	#43
sezme Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 59	Originally posted by Gimbal How is the live histogram superimposed on top of the live view going to work? Is the sensor supposed to take a reading through the half transparent mirror (with the secondary mirror folded away somehow)? Well, how about this, then: click the on/off switch to Digital Preview, the (new faster) mirror flips up just long enough to get a sensor reading, but instead of a preview appearing on the rear LCD panel, we get a histogram in the viewfinder, all without removing one's eye from the camera.

05-15-2009, 01:18 PM	#44
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899	Originally posted by sezme Well, how about this, then: click the on/off switch to Digital Preview, the (new faster) mirror flips up just long enough to get a sensor reading, but instead of a preview appearing on the rear LCD panel, we get a histogram in the viewfinder, all without removing one's eye from the camera. Yes! That's the one I want to see! If the histogram isn't extracted from the sensor, it's next to useless.

05-15-2009, 01:22 PM	#45
Miserere Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,993	Cateto, I read that patent too, but I didn't see any indication of an EVF. I wrote about it here. In short, I think it's just a patent to create a large image on a viewfinder that's closer to the mirror, thus enabling a small body to have the same image size as a larger body without the new system.

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