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05-17-2009, 03:56 AM   #16
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FF? Yes!

QuoteOriginally posted by ilya80 Quote
:ugh:

Some of us are actually waiting for K-mount FF camera you know.

The new K-7 looks good, hope Pentax ( Hoya ) dont stop there
Yes. K-7 is FULL "aps-c" FRAME.

05-17-2009, 04:11 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Wait for another two years, if Pentax survives!

In the meantime, they have the K-7. If the K-7 will be successful, they survive. Otherwise, they will die! (I firmly believe!)
To survive, it depends more of K-m/K2000.
If Pentax sale many K-m, the owners of K-m look for more advanced Pentax after a year or so. And then it depends on K7, K70 and K7 Super to be attractive...
K7 seems to be enough for Pentax users to upgrade, but not for Canikons to go Pentax.
If Pentax get 5-10% of DSLR market in a year, Hoya gona be satisfied, but to get there itīs mostly up to K-m/K2000. If Pentax come with K70 and a K2000Super with tests in the magazines in good time before Christmas, it helps too...
05-17-2009, 04:24 AM   #18
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K-m is best seller for Pentax. It's real.
K-7 will stimulate the last sales of K20D till new K-? launch close to the end 2009. IMO
05-17-2009, 04:51 AM   #19
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Attractiveness of the K-7

QuoteOriginally posted by Bophoto Quote
To survive, it depends more of K-m/K2000.
If Pentax sale many K-m, the owners of K-m look for more advanced Pentax after a year or so. And then it depends on K7, K70 and K7 Super to be attractive...
K7 seems to be enough for Pentax users to upgrade, but not for Canikons to go Pentax.
If Pentax get 5-10% of DSLR market in a year, Hoya gona be satisfied, but to get there itīs mostly up to K-m/K2000. If Pentax come with K70 and a K2000Super with tests in the magazines in good time before Christmas, it helps too...
K-7 might be tempting enough for those Nikonians and Canonians to go Pentax, if they need the unique features that the K-7 offers but not going for Full Frame! (And even though they already have the Full Frame!)

05-17-2009, 04:51 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RuiC Quote
Yes. K-7 is FULL "aps-c" FRAME.
RuiC, as you are technically inclined, you should have noticed already that the terms "full" and "crop" relate to a mount's specification, not some arbitrary dimension.
05-17-2009, 05:02 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
RuiC, as you are technically inclined, you should have noticed already that the terms "full" and "crop" relate to a mount's specification, not some arbitrary dimension.
Well, yes and no. Technicaly Fullframe sensor means the data is extracted at the same time for the whole sensor. This opposes Linear sensor which data is extracted line per line. Sensor datasheet always you these terms.

Btw Full frame speaking about 24x36 is stupid since bigger sensors exists, APS-C format existed as well before (APS film).

That being said, in practice, it used to describe 24x36 sensors. Ridiculous or not, usage being right or wrong but it is used as such.
05-17-2009, 05:55 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Btw Full frame speaking about 24x36 is stupid since bigger sensors exists, APS-C format existed as well before (APS film).
It's not stupid, with the current Pentax APS-C you're not getting the full frame of the K-mount. The K mount is 24x36. That's why a 4/3 camera while having a smaller sensor than APS-C can be called full frame, the mount has always been 4/3.
05-17-2009, 05:56 AM   #23
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If I were Hoya

In between the actual launch of the K-7 (June-July) and the launch of the model above K-m and bellow K-7 (probable Autumn) I would do the following:

- Sell in retail channels both new kit zoom lenses with weather resistance for reasonable prices to help sales of the second hand weather protected older models (K10/K20/K200), This will boost the weather protection atributte of the Pentax brand.
- Get on the market a superzoom (18-2xx) motorized and W.R. and offer it both as bundle with K20/K-7 and in retail.
- Bundle the same W.R. kit lenses with K20D too as ong as this camera will be produced;
- Release of the K-m2 with the sole changes of:

+ Prime 2 instead of Prime image processor for better noise control and jpeg output and faster operations. This will also mean that Prime 2 will be made in huge numbers hence will be cheaper;
+ unlimited number of jpegs in buffer;
+ image orientation sensor;
+ if possible I would like a 460K lcd instead of the current 230K.

- Sell the K-m2 worldwide ALSO as body only not only in kit and double kit like is currently the case in most markets.

If applied IMO these measures will help many current users to sell their gear and also will bring in people interested in obtaining the best bang for the buck ratio.

Radu

05-17-2009, 05:58 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
It's not stupid, with the current Pentax APS-C you're not getting the full frame of the K-mount. The K mount is 24x36. That's why a 4/3 camera while having a smaller sensor than APS-C can be called full frame, the mount has always been 4/3.
You didn't read what I wrote: the terms used are incorrect. I perfectly understand the idea. This is purely a semantic problem, nothing else.

If we refer to mount size, knowing ever mounts are different (so called 'FF' sensor used or not) brings the whole thing down.

People should have found other words for that idea (and no, the idea isn't stupid, the terms are).
05-17-2009, 06:17 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
If we refer to mount size, knowing ever mounts are different (so called 'FF' sensor used or not) brings the whole thing down.
I agree that refering to full frame as being only 24x36 is stupid.

QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
- Get on the market a superzoom (18-2xx) motorized and W.R. and offer it both as bundle with K20/K-7 and in retail.
Nikon did a great thing with the 18-105, that's a great range and not too vulnerable to too much compromises. The Nikkor is a great kit lens. I'm a bit disapointed that Pentax is only releasing a 18-55 WR. Maybe they will release the Tokina 16.5-135 in WR, that would be great.

QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
- Release of the K-m2 with the sole changes of:

+ Prime 2 instead of Prime image processor for better noise control and jpeg output and faster operations. This will also mean that Prime 2 will be made in huge numbers hence will be cheaper;
+ unlimited number of jpegs in buffer;
+ image orientation sensor;
+ if possible I would like a 460K lcd instead of the current 230K.
The weakness of the K-m will be the sensor. It doesn't support the all-important-for-this-market Liveview. And Pentax never used the Sony 12MP CMOS that is getting cheaper (Nikon D5000). Another possibility for the current K-m is to be sold at rock bottom prices, we don't know if the cost-cutting features they removed will allow Pentax to sell it at a very low price without losing money. If that's the case, they will have a hit. Right now, the K-m is slightly too expensive for what it offers IMHO.
05-17-2009, 06:37 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
Nikon did a great thing with the 18-105, that's a great range and not too vulnerable to too much compromises. The Nikkor is a great kit lens. I'm a bit disapointed that Pentax is only releasing a 18-55 WR. Maybe they will release the Tokina 16.5-135 in WR, that would be great.
Well, Nikon I guess have them both (18-105 and 18-200). Different tools IMO and nice to have both in the consumer lens range. But again IMO 18-200 must come first as it is more demanded by the public. And speaking of compromises I really don't think they can come up with a worse design than Canon 18-200 anyway!

QuoteQuote:
The weakness of the K-m will be the sensor. It doesn't support the all-important-for-this-market Liveview. And Pentax never used the Sony 12MP CMOS that is getting cheaper (Nikon D5000). Another possibility for the current K-m is to be sold at rock bottom prices, we don't know if the cost-cutting features they removed will allow Pentax to sell it at a very low price without losing money. If that's the case, they will have a hit. Right now, the K-m is slightly too expensive for what it offers IMHO.
It maybe but I meant it like a face lift and not as a model replacement as K-m is just 7 months old. Look at Sony they will pour old wine (A200) in a slightly new bottle (A230) after 1 year and a half. Besides I think the iq could benefit from the new image processor and algorithms. A totally new camera could be done in 2010 based on a new sensor and taking into account the range of cameras Hoya plans for.

Regards, Manu!
Radu
05-17-2009, 06:55 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Wait for another two years, if Pentax survives!

In the meantime, they have the K-7. If the K-7 will be successful, they survive. Otherwise, they will die! (I firmly believe!)
A bit of the voice of doom there, Rice High. But even for a long time Pentaxian as myself, I admit I do harbour that same fear.
05-17-2009, 09:05 AM   #28
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Referring to the original post, if any of the "secret" features of the K-7 were external (say a new kind of swivel screen), they would've done a lousy job of keeping it secret. For example, we knew about an AF lamp almost a month ago.
05-17-2009, 09:16 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
A bit of the voice of doom there, Rice High. But even for a long time Pentaxian as myself, I admit I do harbour that same fear.
well even Ricehigh is thinking to get the new K-7, so I think Pentax can survive longer than our fear.
05-17-2009, 09:43 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
K-7 might be tempting enough for those Nikonians and Canonians to go Pentax, if they need the unique features that the K-7 offers but not going for Full Frame! (And even though they already have the Full Frame!)
If the K-7 has some truly unique and useful features not available on any other cameras, I think it is possible that there will be some migration of N and C users, but not in huge numbers. But Pentax does not need huge numbers of migrants. It just needs small numbers at the start. Assuming that the K-7 is as good overall as we hope, others in the N and C communities will become aware of it through their peers, which could lead to more switching. And many may not actually switch; they may simply add Pentax to their arsenal for its unique features and because they like the results it gives.

This is what Pentax must hope for. The K-7 will not take the world of DSLRs by storm. There is simply too much vested interest in the Big Two to allow that to happen.

Rob

Last edited by robgo2; 05-17-2009 at 10:49 AM.
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