What the hell is Hoya thinking?! Europeans buy your lenses NOW!

LensScribe · 07-22-2009, 03:09 AM

Sadly, from my scouting about (and living with a canon and a nikon user) it seems that in SA we're being screwed regardless of what we buy. The price difference compared to USA in particular is alarming... usually double.

Hence I've taken to only buying secondhand gear, trawling local secondhand stores for Super Taks etc. and, when I do need something new, buying it in the US or UK and waiting for someone who's coming here to bring it over for me.

As a result, the only new lens I actually own is the kit, and the only other new gear is a remote I bought here and a grip a friend in the states mailed off to me yesterday.

If you know anywhere locally that doesn't charge double the US prices, please do let me know

**Rondec** · 07-22-2009, 04:13 AM

I am not certain about pricing in other countries, but Pentax lenses are still reasonable when compared to comparable Canon/Nikon lenses. That is to say, if you compare the FA 50 to the Canon 50 f1.4, you find that the Canon 50 is anywhere for 60 to 100 dollars more. Canon has no f2.8 zooms with IS that are priced under 1000 dollars. I sort of wish that Pentax had some "cheap" primes like the Nikon 35 or the 50 f1.8, but then I think that folks would complain about the poor build quality and that they didn't last.

**rparmar** · 07-22-2009, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by koper

you can bay lenses from sigma
there is no need to bay original pentax lenses

Unless you want a DA12-24 with more usable range and better IQ than the Sigma 10-20.

Or a 55-300 with better IQ by far than the Sigma equivalent.

Or an FA31. Or FA43. Or FA77. Which no other firm comes close to matching.

Or a DA15, DA21, DA40 or DA70 which are incredibly compact for the quality.

Etc. Etc.

Pentax makes great lenses and they are now out of reach for many. I did not buy a Pentax camera (two actually) so I could use inferior third-party glass. I bought it so I could use outstanding Pentax lenses.

Good job for me I already own what I need. (Maybe not what I want, but that is another question.) But I feel very much for those who bought into a cheaper high-quality solution and now are faced with sacrificing quality or paying a lot more.

Too head off some inevitable rebuttals: I recognise there are some very good Sigma lenses, but the range as a whole cannot compete IMO. I am also aware of (and use) great third-party optics from Vivitar.

LensScribe · 07-22-2009, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by rparmar

Pentax makes great lenses and they are now out of reach for many. I did not buy a Pentax camera (two actually) so I could use inferior third-party glass. I bought it so I could use outstanding Pentax lenses..

Indeed, and with the prices of new ones going up, all the more reason to buy an adapter and invest in Super Takumars and other excellent screw-mount legacy Pentax glass

Alphonse · 07-22-2009, 08:17 AM

What I read now will confirm something that Im afraid.
The Pentax system will only gather the old users and the ones with their already made lens roadmap.

The new prices will forbid the access of all new users with a very measured budget. And then inch by inch, the Pentax system will be abandoned.

It's a case for what Pentax doesn't offer us lots of choice.

MikePerham · 07-22-2009, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Alphonse

The new prices will forbid the access of all new users with a very measured budget. And then inch by inch, the Pentax system will be abandoned.

I am amazed at the judgment of many folks who react with such an extreme comment. Pentax will not be abandoned, all they have done is brought their pricing up to par with others like Canon and Nikon. Check it out, remember those manufacturers also had price increases. I think they were under priced before to try and gain market share but are now pricing their product appropriately.

poppyer · 07-22-2009, 11:04 AM

It could be right that they were underpriced to gain the market share, but how is the outcome now? I could see the market share is even smaller. At this moment to increase the price means they abandon themselves. Also note that at the same time, they shrink their lens lineup. All of these lead to a conclusion that they have changed their marketing policy and want to be Leica No.2....

Directly comparing Pentax's lens to the counterparts of Canon or Nikon might not be feasible. For example, after raising price, the FA50mm/1.4 is cheapter than Canon and Nikon, but remember canon 50mm/1.4 has USM, while nikon's has better CA control and sharpness at wide-open(F1.4/F2).

Increasing price is not guilty, business is business. But combining with lens lineup shrinkage leaves newcomers out of choices. For example, 200$ for 50/1.4 were okay, but with 250$ now, they definitely need to put the 150$ 50/1.7 back into production.

So the underlying question is, do they want to be Leica No.2? and if that is true, is it good for most of pentaxians?

**rparmar** · 07-22-2009, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by LensScribe

Indeed, and with the prices of new ones going up, all the more reason to buy an adapter and invest in Super Takumars and other excellent screw-mount legacy Pentax glass

No doubt a good move! I am happy with my older glass though I have little in screw mount.

Edvinas · 07-22-2009, 04:40 PM

Guys, read subject. It says Europe.

Don't say that Pentax is still cheaper looking at B&H price. North America still holding (probably had a lot of stocked stuff), but in Europe Pentax glass isn't cheaper than Canon and Nikon anymore.

MikePerham · 07-22-2009, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by poppyer

Directly comparing Pentax's lens to the counterparts of Canon or Nikon might not be feasible. For example, after raising price, the FA50mm/1.4 is cheapter than Canon and Nikon, but remember canon 50mm/1.4 has USM, while nikon's has better CA control and sharpness at wide-open(F1.4/F2).

Well there are some lenses you can compare ...the 12-24 for instance. Both Nikon and Pentax make that for APS sized sensors. They are similarly priced and the Pentax is rated higher.

As to market share, I think Pentax have made ground ...since the K10D they have an increased stature and awareness in the market place. Didn't someone post that the K-7 was # 3 in sales in Japan?

Edvinas · 07-22-2009, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by MikePerham

As to market share, I think Pentax have made ground ...since the K10D they have an increased stature and awareness in the market place. Didn't someone post that the K-7 was # 3 in sales in Japan?

For a couple of weeks. Doesn't change anything when you look at yearly sales numbers.

Sebbe_J · 07-22-2009, 10:41 PM

The FA50/1.4 is up at 5849 SEK now, that's about $747....

**Rondec** · 07-23-2009, 03:45 AM

Pentax has to sell products for a price that will not lose them money in the long run. For some lenses, that means that the actual cost is high. I don't know what is reasonable, but for Pentax to survive, they can't sell things at a loss.

As someone mentioned, it would be nice to bring out a 50mm 1.7 for a smaller price. If they could have a couple of "cheap" primes, maybe people wouldn't focus so much on the high cost of the limiteds.

**Pål Jensen** · 07-23-2009, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Pentax has to sell products for a price that will not lose them money in the long run. For some lenses, that means that the actual cost is high. I don't know what is reasonable, but for Pentax to survive, they can't sell things at a loss.

As someone mentioned, it would be nice to bring out a 50mm 1.7 for a smaller price. If they could have a couple of "cheap" primes, maybe people wouldn't focus so much on the high cost of the limiteds.

Very unlikely that we will see cheap primes. I believe in fact that the Limiteds exist because prime lenses would have been expensive anyway; just as well make them well finished. Nowadays more than 95% of lens sales are zooms. Primes are basically niche items. Certainly for Pentax with it's small marketshare. The "old" 50mm lenses are from a time when all cameras came with a 50mm lens. Nowadays assembling an FA 50/1.4 is probably just as costly as assemble a 300/4 in terms of work.....

**rparmar** · 07-23-2009, 08:11 AM

People who are justifying the Pentax price hike by comparing to Canikon prices are missing the point. Those two companies have market share, professional network, aftermarket support, product line and used gear way in excess of what Pentax can offer. One of Pentax's main advantages was price. Now that's gone, there's going to be far fewer people choosing Pentax, which will only mean further diminishing sales.

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07-22-2009, 03:09 AM	#76
LensScribe Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Photos: Gallery Posts: 316	Sadly, from my scouting about (and living with a canon and a nikon user) it seems that in SA we're being screwed regardless of what we buy. The price difference compared to USA in particular is alarming... usually double. Hence I've taken to only buying secondhand gear, trawling local secondhand stores for Super Taks etc. and, when I do need something new, buying it in the US or UK and waiting for someone who's coming here to bring it over for me. As a result, the only new lens I actually own is the kit, and the only other new gear is a remote I bought here and a grip a friend in the states mailed off to me yesterday. If you know anywhere locally that doesn't charge double the US prices, please do let me know

07-22-2009, 04:13 AM	#77
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I am not certain about pricing in other countries, but Pentax lenses are still reasonable when compared to comparable Canon/Nikon lenses. That is to say, if you compare the FA 50 to the Canon 50 f1.4, you find that the Canon 50 is anywhere for 60 to 100 dollars more. Canon has no f2.8 zooms with IS that are priced under 1000 dollars. I sort of wish that Pentax had some "cheap" primes like the Nikon 35 or the 50 f1.8, but then I think that folks would complain about the poor build quality and that they didn't last.

07-22-2009, 06:38 AM	#78
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by koper you can bay lenses from sigma there is no need to bay original pentax lenses Unless you want a DA12-24 with more usable range and better IQ than the Sigma 10-20. Or a 55-300 with better IQ by far than the Sigma equivalent. Or an FA31. Or FA43. Or FA77. Which no other firm comes close to matching. Or a DA15, DA21, DA40 or DA70 which are incredibly compact for the quality. Etc. Etc. Pentax makes great lenses and they are now out of reach for many. I did not buy a Pentax camera (two actually) so I could use inferior third-party glass. I bought it so I could use outstanding Pentax lenses. Good job for me I already own what I need. (Maybe not what I want, but that is another question.) But I feel very much for those who bought into a cheaper high-quality solution and now are faced with sacrificing quality or paying a lot more. Too head off some inevitable rebuttals: I recognise there are some very good Sigma lenses, but the range as a whole cannot compete IMO. I am also aware of (and use) great third-party optics from Vivitar.

07-22-2009, 06:48 AM	#79
LensScribe Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Photos: Gallery Posts: 316	Originally posted by rparmar Pentax makes great lenses and they are now out of reach for many. I did not buy a Pentax camera (two actually) so I could use inferior third-party glass. I bought it so I could use outstanding Pentax lenses.. Indeed, and with the prices of new ones going up, all the more reason to buy an adapter and invest in Super Takumars and other excellent screw-mount legacy Pentax glass

07-22-2009, 08:17 AM	#80
Alphonse New Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brie Comte Robert, France Posts: 13	What I read now will confirm something that Im afraid. The Pentax system will only gather the old users and the ones with their already made lens roadmap. The new prices will forbid the access of all new users with a very measured budget. And then inch by inch, the Pentax system will be abandoned. It's a case for what Pentax doesn't offer us lots of choice.

07-22-2009, 08:40 AM	#81
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by Alphonse The new prices will forbid the access of all new users with a very measured budget. And then inch by inch, the Pentax system will be abandoned. I am amazed at the judgment of many folks who react with such an extreme comment. Pentax will not be abandoned, all they have done is brought their pricing up to par with others like Canon and Nikon. Check it out, remember those manufacturers also had price increases. I think they were under priced before to try and gain market share but are now pricing their product appropriately.

07-22-2009, 11:04 AM	#82
poppyer New Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7	It could be right that they were underpriced to gain the market share, but how is the outcome now? I could see the market share is even smaller. At this moment to increase the price means they abandon themselves. Also note that at the same time, they shrink their lens lineup. All of these lead to a conclusion that they have changed their marketing policy and want to be Leica No.2.... Directly comparing Pentax's lens to the counterparts of Canon or Nikon might not be feasible. For example, after raising price, the FA50mm/1.4 is cheapter than Canon and Nikon, but remember canon 50mm/1.4 has USM, while nikon's has better CA control and sharpness at wide-open(F1.4/F2). Increasing price is not guilty, business is business. But combining with lens lineup shrinkage leaves newcomers out of choices. For example, 200$ for 50/1.4 were okay, but with 250$ now, they definitely need to put the 150$ 50/1.7 back into production. So the underlying question is, do they want to be Leica No.2? and if that is true, is it good for most of pentaxians?

07-22-2009, 04:33 PM	#83
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by LensScribe Indeed, and with the prices of new ones going up, all the more reason to buy an adapter and invest in Super Takumars and other excellent screw-mount legacy Pentax glass No doubt a good move! I am happy with my older glass though I have little in screw mount.

07-22-2009, 04:40 PM	#84
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458 Original Poster	Guys, read subject. It says Europe. Don't say that Pentax is still cheaper looking at B&H price. North America still holding (probably had a lot of stocked stuff), but in Europe Pentax glass isn't cheaper than Canon and Nikon anymore.

07-22-2009, 05:17 PM	#85
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by poppyer Directly comparing Pentax's lens to the counterparts of Canon or Nikon might not be feasible. For example, after raising price, the FA50mm/1.4 is cheapter than Canon and Nikon, but remember canon 50mm/1.4 has USM, while nikon's has better CA control and sharpness at wide-open(F1.4/F2). Well there are some lenses you can compare ...the 12-24 for instance. Both Nikon and Pentax make that for APS sized sensors. They are similarly priced and the Pentax is rated higher. As to market share, I think Pentax have made ground ...since the K10D they have an increased stature and awareness in the market place. Didn't someone post that the K-7 was # 3 in sales in Japan?

07-22-2009, 07:05 PM	#86
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458 Original Poster	Originally posted by MikePerham As to market share, I think Pentax have made ground ...since the K10D they have an increased stature and awareness in the market place. Didn't someone post that the K-7 was # 3 in sales in Japan? For a couple of weeks. Doesn't change anything when you look at yearly sales numbers.

07-22-2009, 10:41 PM	#87
Sebbe_J Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Växjö Photos: Gallery Posts: 127	The FA50/1.4 is up at 5849 SEK now, that's about $747....

07-23-2009, 03:45 AM	#88
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Pentax has to sell products for a price that will not lose them money in the long run. For some lenses, that means that the actual cost is high. I don't know what is reasonable, but for Pentax to survive, they can't sell things at a loss. As someone mentioned, it would be nice to bring out a 50mm 1.7 for a smaller price. If they could have a couple of "cheap" primes, maybe people wouldn't focus so much on the high cost of the limiteds.

07-23-2009, 05:08 AM	#89
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Rondec Pentax has to sell products for a price that will not lose them money in the long run. For some lenses, that means that the actual cost is high. I don't know what is reasonable, but for Pentax to survive, they can't sell things at a loss. As someone mentioned, it would be nice to bring out a 50mm 1.7 for a smaller price. If they could have a couple of "cheap" primes, maybe people wouldn't focus so much on the high cost of the limiteds. Very unlikely that we will see cheap primes. I believe in fact that the Limiteds exist because prime lenses would have been expensive anyway; just as well make them well finished. Nowadays more than 95% of lens sales are zooms. Primes are basically niche items. Certainly for Pentax with it's small marketshare. The "old" 50mm lenses are from a time when all cameras came with a 50mm lens. Nowadays assembling an FA 50/1.4 is probably just as costly as assemble a 300/4 in terms of work.....

07-23-2009, 08:11 AM	#90
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	People who are justifying the Pentax price hike by comparing to Canikon prices are missing the point. Those two companies have market share, professional network, aftermarket support, product line and used gear way in excess of what Pentax can offer. One of Pentax's main advantages was price. Now that's gone, there's going to be far fewer people choosing Pentax, which will only mean further diminishing sales.