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05-20-2009, 07:42 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erik Quote
I just realized that this is an apples/oranges situation and deleted my post, sucks that you would be quick enough to make me look stupid on the Internet forever
I learned to never again put my name on the Intertubes in '95, the hard way...and then again in '96...etc....

05-20-2009, 08:37 PM   #47
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Maybe it is just a case of a leading shutter curtain to far. There is a lot in the K-7 that is totally new or has had a major improvement made to it, as in almost everything. With the limited time and money there may have just not had enough for a total new shutter. If all Pentax had to do to get 1/8000 out of the shutter is shorten the time till the rear curtain starts then that gives an improvement without a totally new shutter. It looks like Pentax through just about every thing into the K-7 but the kitchen sink (and a new shutter) and pushed everything as far as it could go. About the only specifications I donít see changed are x-sync and ISO range. Pentax change so much this time that I think that they did not change x-sync this time as a good thing. Pentax is going to need some stuff to change for the next camera so the list will not look to small next to what was changed on the K-7.

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05-20-2009, 09:48 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle Quote
You continue to completely invalidate the opinion of everyone who shares that frustration with no effort to understand why we even have it. 1/25 or 1/60 is good enough? Please...
When did I ever say 1/25 or 1/60 is good enough? In essence what I meant was:
QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
(Back when a medium format SLR was lucky to have *1/60th* the LS lenses were a bigger deal for those reasons, but I still tend to look blankly at those who figure 1/180th is all that bad for a focal plane shutter. )
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
incidentally the Pentax 67 II had a x-synch speed of 1/30th
the Leica M3 has 1/50th Xsync. After fifty years of rangefinders still carrying that "abysmal" 1/30th~1/60th sync speed the year 1999 konica came out with a rangefinder that could sync at 1/125s -and you know what?...nobody gave a shit.
There you have it.

At age 24, I'm already tired of hearing "I can't do this without that...why isn't this automatic..." It's not to say I don't love tech (cause I absolutely do)...it's that I grew up normally and had adequate stuff to amuse myself with. There was always something bigger and better out there, which I was lucky enough to get once in a while. Remember $300 Nintendo 64? Christmas 1998...my parents got the last one in the store. Remember 133Mhz computers? We had one up until 2002 when I was a junior in high school...replaced with a 766Mhz version. Wooo that was livin

Everybody's getting their "undies in a bunch" over a half stop here, or the video isn't 1080p, or my email is only pushed every 10 minutes instead of every 5. Gimme a break and be thankful that Pentax came out with a wicked camera. Even some Canon and Nikon shooters were impressed...and impressed especially by the DA 40. Now that's something which will grab attention!
05-20-2009, 10:52 PM   #49
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like you ryan I roll my eyes when I see people getting a their pants in a knot over the sync speed...alot of those older cameras I mentioned with sync speeds below 1/180s were all considered professional cameras. And photographers used them with flash and managed to produce superb results.

I think the reason why people complain about it is because it's the only thing that is seen as inferior to the other camera manafacturers products.

just remember in the days of film, we had it much worse. Ever used solenoid shutters for 8X10 flash work?

05-20-2009, 11:37 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
like you ryan I roll my eyes when I see people getting a their pants in a knot over the sync speed...alot of those older cameras I mentioned with sync speeds below 1/180s were all considered professional cameras. And photographers used them with flash and managed to produce superb results.

I think the reason why people complain about it is because it's the only thing that is seen as inferior to the other camera manafacturers products.

just remember in the days of film, we had it much worse. Ever used solenoid shutters for 8X10 flash work?
You think thats a valid argument?
if thats your position then good news, get a dirt cheap second hand istD instead of the k7, hey people took great pictures with it, why do you need anything more?! And compared to old film cameras its amazingly good, even has auto focus, hell we didnt have that in them good old days.
05-21-2009, 12:02 AM   #51
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why the hell would I want to get a *istD? I already use konica and Leica rangefinders and a Pentax ME super for most of my 35mm film work. I also use Ebony 4X5~8X10 view cameras.
05-21-2009, 12:20 AM   #52
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8x10 That could also double as a full workout program!

There's the people who want more and more in a cell phone, for example. Then there's some who just want to use it for calls. I cannot think of one thing my N95 can't do besides household chores. At the same time, I've used phone-only phones. If were we never spoiled by such things as 5MP Zeiss optics, GPS, insane amounts of memory, internet--all in a phone!--we'd still just have phones that make calls. And maybe send texts
05-21-2009, 12:35 AM   #53
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hauling a 8X10 view camera with three lenses and a tripod and film is one of the reasons why i'm as fit as I am....besides, I can't say no to a challenge.

05-21-2009, 07:18 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
like you ryan I roll my eyes when I see people getting a their pants in a knot over the sync speed...alot of those older cameras I mentioned with sync speeds below 1/180s were all considered professional cameras. And photographers used them with flash and managed to produce superb results.

I think the reason why people complain about it is because it's the only thing that is seen as inferior to the other camera manafacturers products.

just remember in the days of film, we had it much worse. Ever used solenoid shutters for 8X10 flash work?
Why is it always assumed that people who want to see something improved are just looking for a reason to complain or put something down? I kind of like Pentax, and liking my camera is pretty important to me. My pants are no more bunched than yours are over your perception that mine are. (OK, I think this is getting too personal here... moving on).

Pentax is the camera for photographers, by photographers right? So why are they the most limited company on the market when it comes to using professional light? I never said I couldn't do anything I want with 1/180. Just because my camera has a limitation doesn't mean that I have to throw up my hands and go home. Compensating for the limitations of your gear is what separates the men from the boys right? You may have to carry bigger lights, stacks of filters, wait for the sun to drop and shoot like mad during your 30 minutes of sweet light but there is always a way.

A couple of clarifications. 1/2 stop can make the difference between a white sky and a pale blue sky or a pale blue sky and a medium blue sky. Of course there are other ways to get that extra half stop (sort of) but I'm not just hoping for the same old 1/250 either. I want to see 1/500 or higher.

In the days of film and rotary dial, party line telephones the work was much harder and the bar was much lower. Those standards are long gone. It's time to break this significant barrier and break it in style.
05-21-2009, 07:27 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
hauling a 8X10 view camera with three lenses and a tripod and film is one of the reasons why i'm as fit as I am....besides, I can't say no to a challenge.
Reading that, and looking through the beautiful images in your portfolio I think I'm getting an idea why the importance of flash synch to me eludes you. Landscape photographers are on a different plain of peaceful - They never get their pants knotted... especially over something as silly as a hot shoe flash limitation.
05-21-2009, 07:47 AM   #56
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He is not bashing! He is just giving a very plausible explanation to the 1/180 sync, which simply means that if you want faster you has to buy a bigger body. If you prioritise the size, like me, you are likely to accept this.

Perhaps there will be a successor of the K20D in that sort of body size that might offer faster sync speed...especially if we buy many K-7

Don't put RH in the basher pile automatically. He has been quite Pentax friendly since he started shooting Pentax lenses on a Canon FF. And if someone absolutely want FF you cannot blame them for going to another brand, since Pentax have no FF yet. But be sure, that if he starts to bash K-7 for real, I wont defend him. But this was unfair.
05-21-2009, 07:58 AM   #57
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He is not bashing! He is just giving a very plausible explanation to the 1/180 sync, which simply means that if you want faster you has to buy a bigger body. If you prioritise the size, like me, you are likely to accept this.

Perhaps there will be a successor of the K20D in that sort of body size that might offer faster sync speed...especially if we buy many K-7

Don't put RH in the basher pile automatically. He has been quite Pentax friendly since he started shooting Pentax lenses on a Canon FF. And if someone absolutely want FF you cannot blame them for going to another brand, since Pentax have no FF yet. But be sure, that if he starts to bash K-7 for real, I wont defend him. But this was unfair.
05-21-2009, 08:14 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle Quote
Reading that, and looking through the beautiful images in your portfolio I think I'm getting an idea why the importance of flash synch to me eludes you. Landscape photographers are on a different plain of peaceful - They never get their pants knotted.

you're dead wrong mate, landscape photography often involves often running across hells half acre at freezing temperatures at the crack of dawn and getting your "shot" you scouted out the morning before,get your 8X10 set up on the tripod, focus on the dim ground glass, stop the lens down to f/22, use whatever amount of tilt/shift necessary to get the things you want in focus, slide the film holder on,hope the film hasn't buckled in the holder due to temperature changes, use an incident light meter to set your exposure, get everything in the right "zone", set the shutter to 1/4th and hope to hell you cocked the shutter before you miss the golden opportunity...

It takes me about 10~15 minutes to get everything set up properly when I'm using 8X10 view camera....but the results of a properly executed image on 8X10 especially with a high resolution film like Kodak Tech pan (theoretical maximum resolution is in excess of 600LP/mm)

Last edited by Digitalis; 08-31-2010 at 05:22 PM.
05-21-2009, 08:26 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I own a few leaf shutter lenses for the pentax 645 and 67 systems....I wonder if it's possible to trigger them manually on the K10D


incidentally the Pentax 67 II had a x-synch speed of 1/30th
the Leica M3 has 1/50th Xsync. After fifty years of rangefinders still carrying that "abysmal" 1/30th~1/60th sync speed the year 1999 konica came out with a rangefinder that could sync at 1/125s -and you know what?...nobody gave a shit.
That's probably because by that time no one gave a shit about rangefinders because we were all using SLR cameras for our professional work. When Nikon released the FM-2 in 1982 with a sync speed faster than what Pentax is doing over a quarter of a century later, it was seen as a huge improvement for flash photographers.

I used a Pentax 6x7 for professional work for a very long time and found it to be so useless with fill flash (until I got LS lenses that would sync to 1/500) that I used reflectors and very careful location choices for outdoor wedding portraiture.
I welcomed the higher sync speed that the leaf shutter lenses gave me because it opened up more locations to me for using fill flash.

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
like you ryan I roll my eyes when I see people getting a their pants in a knot over the sync speed...alot of those older cameras I mentioned with sync speeds below 1/180s were all considered professional cameras. And photographers used them with flash and managed to produce superb results.

I think the reason why people complain about it is because it's the only thing that is seen as inferior to the other camera manafacturers products.

just remember in the days of film, we had it much worse. Ever used solenoid shutters for 8X10 flash work?
Wake up buddy, it's not 1937 any more.

If you really want to go back to the dinosaur days of flash bulbs and unreliable shutters, that's certainly your perogative. Some of us look forwards to what we can do today, not backwards to some happier, simpler time when the sun was dimmer and fill flash was easier.

Back in the 70s when I started doing this stuff, you turned your subjects backs to the sun and shot at f/4 for a 60th with flash and let the film's lattitude take care of things for you.
Digital sensors just don't allow that sort of lassez faire attitude, they require more precise exposure than your beloved solenoid shutter and a flash bulb will provide.

Now for myself, I'm not too terribly concerned about a 1/180 second sync speed compared to a 1/250th speed, but I don't have the hubris that you (and Ryan) have to insult the intelligence of the people who do find this to be a concern.
I give them the benefit of the doubt that if it wasn't a concern for them and their work they wouldn't bring it up.
Perhaps you guys could learn a lesson from this, but somehow I doubt it.
05-21-2009, 08:31 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle Quote
Reading that, and looking through the beautiful images in your portfolio I think I'm getting an idea why the importance of flash synch to me eludes you. Landscape photographers are on a different plain of peaceful - They never get their pants knotted... especially over something as silly as a hot shoe flash limitation.
This is actually very true. I shoot landscapes with 4x5 and find it to be the most relaxing way to shoot pictures. Everything happens at a slower pace. There is a serenity to using large format that just doesn't seem to be shared by small camera use.
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