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05-22-2009, 10:26 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafiryde Quote
exactly my point
pentax is releasing the K7 at $1300
nikon D90 with 18-105 $1100 and throw in their new 35/1.8 at $200 =$1300

i had both these lenses when i initally bought the K10 and i very much doubt putting in a few o'rings is gonna improve their IQ and if you look at photozone on these two lenses their are medioca

Dave
The K7 is a notch above the D90, IMO.

Also, while the 35/1.8 is decent optically, its build quality is pretty cheap. Expect a DA* 30mm to cost a LOT more. Probably close to the 31 ltd if we're to judge by the recently released DA* 55mm.

05-22-2009, 10:28 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bankebrett Quote
They probably have a significant amount of the 31/1.8 stored that they need to sell out first. Releasing a new fast 30mm would cannibalize the sale of that lens at thus lead to a significant loss.

To sum it up: They can't afford to release a new fast 30mm now.
from a business point of view, i would tend to think that it would be better to take a loss on a few items and make a heavy gain on something new, that you can swamp the the market with.
But then again their marketing department is at a day care centre, and who wants to blame a child
05-22-2009, 10:41 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Buddha Jones Quote
Are you seriously comparing the K-7 to the D90.... seriously....
comparing the price investment and leaning heavily on after sale customer service and backup

QuoteOriginally posted by EricT Quote
The K7 is a notch above the D90, IMO.


Also, while the 35/1.8 is decent optically, its build quality is pretty cheap. Expect a DA* 30mm to cost a LOT more. Probably close to the 31 ltd if we're to judge by the recently released DA* 55mm.
as you said only a notch above

i will put IQ and price way above build quality

Dave
05-22-2009, 10:56 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafiryde Quote
exactly my point
pentax is releasing the K7 at $1300
nikon D90 with 18-105 $1100 and throw in their new 35/1.8 at $200 =$1300



i had both these lenses when i initally bought the K10 and i very much doubt putting in a few o'rings is gonna improve their IQ and if you look at photozone on these two lenses their are medioca

Dave
that's what I thought. You tested 18-55 I, not the II. As for 50-200:
* trust synthetic test as photozone if you want,
* A LOT people disagree but you're surely right: those have to be mediocre. Geeeeeez.

05-22-2009, 11:12 AM   #20
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You can try picking up a used FA35. Too bad it has been discontinued. Even if Pentax puts out a DA 30, it will most likely be very expensive.
05-22-2009, 11:16 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
I'm with you, Dafiryde.

The K7 is going to stretch my budget as it is. It sure would be nice if Pentax made a fast and affordable 50mm equivalent lens. The 35/2.8 macro isn't fast enough, and it's not cheap either.

I don't know why Canon, Pentax etc. continue to ignore such an obvious niche. Primes are clearly becoming popular, but so far only Nikon has managed to produce a fast, cheap, high quality 50mm equivalent. And that's only very recently.

What's the deal?

The FA 35/2 is still a wonderful lens, actually, and seems to work great on digital as well as covering full frame. Nikon certainly went a lot of years without *anything* affordable that would work on short-of-a-D200/300, (rationale being that if you don't have 2+grand to give them, you don't deserve to be shooting primes, I guess. ) and good on them for putting something out there.

I do think Pentax ought to follow suit with the affordable-normal, especially given the big part of their 'niche' that constitutes budget-minded serious enthusiasts and would-be such students. (or even reissue that 35 with current electronics or whatever) : for expensive lenses, they don't generally have to ask twice if a serious Pentaxian would like one of those 31's...

I think any DA* in that range is one matter. Something current to fill the 35/2 slot is another good thing they ought to do. But meanwhile, there's still plenty of those out there, and it seems they're still contenders.
05-22-2009, 11:30 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
that's what I thought. You tested 18-55 I, not the II. As for 50-200:
* trust synthetic test as photozone if you want,
* A LOT people disagree but you're surely right: those have to be mediocre. Geeeeeez.
as a mattere of fact i just remembered JimC from Steves digicam web site once quoted me
" take what reviews you read on lenses with a grain of salt "
so back to my original post
why not bring out a lens like nikon did from 18-105
this range, is ideal for every day, basic, casual, shooting,. and they came out with one that is affordable and has great MTF results

Dave
05-22-2009, 11:31 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafiryde Quote
comparing the price investment and leaning heavily on after sale customer service and backup



as you said only a notch above

i will put IQ and price way above build quality

Dave
I'd still consider the D90 as being in the same range as the K20D but like the K20d better. The D300 would be closer to a comparable model to the K-7 due to the magnesium body etc. etc. etc.

QuoteOriginally posted by dafiryde Quote
as a mattere of fact i just remembered JimC from Steves digicam web site once quoted me
" take what reviews you read on lenses with a grain of salt "
so back to my original post
why not bring out a lens like nikon did from 18-105
this range, is ideal for every day, basic, casual, shooting,. and they came out with one that is affordable and has great MTF results

Dave
What does this have to do with a DA 30mm lens?

05-22-2009, 11:32 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafiryde Quote
i had both these lenses when i initally bought the K10 and i very much doubt putting in a few o'rings is gonna improve their IQ and if you look at photozone on these two lenses their are medioca

Dave
As mentioned, you would have had Kit Lens I with the K10: the DA-L II is actually the best kit lens out there, (especially around 35-40 mm and off the wide stop: dat's*nice*. Doesn't feel like a piece of crap, either. ) Still a kit lens, though, what do you want.



It's *better* than the other kit lenses. I still wouldn't pay extra to have that glass weathersealed, though, but I'm not the kit lens market. I'm a cranky ol' prime lens user who only has the kit lens cause it ...came with a kit. . (And, well, not really that cranky about it. ) Someone who wants to buy an outfit that they can take out in some rain or spray, and there's a lot of those someones, they're gonna love those.

Photography is ninety percent *being there.* People can take those kit zooms and blow the doors off anything for the money that can't even be there.
05-22-2009, 11:45 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I'd still consider the D90 as being in the same range as the K20D but like the K20d better. The D300 would be closer to a comparable model to the K-7 due to the magnesium body etc. etc. etc.

What does this have to do with a DA 30mm lens?
Guess it might relate to a total package.

A D90 might compete with or exceed a K20 on certain counts, but it's just *not* a poor-person's D300, which is kind of what the K20 has become. The Dx0 series lacks the full control suite and functional compatibility with *old* lenses, which is what a prime shooter, first and foremost, needs.

Still, Pentax really ought to have an affordable, current, basic normal. Fast and realy primo ones may be the thing for a lot of us, but a 1.8 is fast by digital standards, and dealable if you have to, especially if you can pump the ISO a bit and have AF. I think it's a strength of Pentax, actually, that they're the brand that appeals most to the old school, even if we aren't all making big bucks off it or something else.
05-22-2009, 11:55 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafiryde Quote
exactly my point
pentax is releasing the K7 at $1300
nikon D90 with 18-105 $1100 and throw in their new 35/1.8 at $200 =$1300


Dave

The D90 is an alternative to the K-7, but doesn't quite match it, at least in specs.

D90 does not have AF adjust, SR, weather sealing, and the movie mode is not nearly as good.

We'll have to wait for the info that can only come with the production firmware release: High ISO noise performance, AF speed, general IQ.

If those things match the D90 or come very close, you can't really compare the two (unless you're a camera-store employee trying to push Nikon. then all logic goes out the window. )

If the K-7 falls short in those yet-unknown areas, the D90 remains a viable alternative and can be compared to the K-7.


.
05-22-2009, 01:23 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
OK. That's really too bad. It seems to me that a fast, 30mm lens that doesn't cost $800 (like the 31/1.8) would be a home run for Pentax.

Nikon just released their new 35/1.8 for $200. It's supposed to be pretty good optically, and that's a price I can get behind!
I still think it may come and possibly not too long from now but $200,00 might be too optimistic
05-22-2009, 02:59 PM   #28
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That's exactly what makes me mad. They're going to replace the excellent, very expensive 31/1.8 with an excellent, very expensive 30/1.x.

I'm with Dafiryde again: IQ is much more important to me than build quality. What good is a perfectly built lens when I can't afford it?

Why don't they keep the 31/1.8 for those who demand the highest quality and come out with a 30/1.8 with inferior build quality for those of us who don't want to pay $800 for a simple, normal prime?

And you know what, if they sell 1,000 of those at $200 vs. 100 of the 31/1.8s at $800 (not real numbers, just an example), then they'll come out ahead. It's a question of volume.

I know Sigma has the 30/1.4, but it's such a controversial lens and not well-reviewed in Pentax mount here.

It seems so frickin' obvious to me: an affordable, fast, high quality, "normal" prime.

Earth to Pentax!
05-22-2009, 04:06 PM   #29
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I'm wondering if the Hoya takeover changed the whole strategy on the da30. It seems that the old pentax strategy was to try and replace the fa ltds with smaller lighter Da ltds. Da 30 was to be fa31 replacement. Hoya on the other hand probably realizes the value of The Fa Ltds and intends to keep them as a premium product. Instead they may have decided to make the Da30 as a fa35 replacement instead. I would expect weather seals. SDM makes sense for video sound too. That only leaves construction and aperture to play with. Maybe they needed to redesign the lens or maybe the will just use the 35/2 design and add weather seals, SDM and quick shift. We will have to wait and see.
05-22-2009, 04:15 PM   #30
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I'd be happy enough with a redesigned 35/2.
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