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05-22-2009, 04:51 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
That's exactly what makes me mad. They're going to replace the excellent, very expensive 31/1.8 with an excellent, very expensive 30/1.x.

I'm with Dafiryde again: IQ is much more important to me than build quality. What good is a perfectly built lens when I can't afford it?

Why don't they keep the 31/1.8 for those who demand the highest quality and come out with a 30/1.8 with inferior build quality for those of us who don't want to pay $800 for a simple, normal prime?

And you know what, if they sell 1,000 of those at $200 vs. 100 of the 31/1.8s at $800 (not real numbers, just an example), then they'll come out ahead. It's a question of volume.

I know Sigma has the 30/1.4, but it's such a controversial lens and not well-reviewed in Pentax mount here.

It seems so frickin' obvious to me: an affordable, fast, high quality, "normal" prime.

Earth to Pentax!
Words of Wisdom
and again i say
Pentax marketing department is busy , as the whole staff is still waiting to graduate out of a day care centre

Dave

05-22-2009, 09:32 PM   #32
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In browsing through B&H listings I've noticed something that I never really realized before:

Pentax has only 1 fast lens under $500, the FA 50/1.4 at $250, and with that being the only non-Limited FA lens left, I wouldn't be surprised to see it disappear soon. If that does happen, the only fast lenses in the Pentax lineup will be the FA Limiteds and DA* 55, the cheapest of which would be the 43/1.9 at $530 (you could argue that the DA 70/2.4 Limited is a fast prime though)

For comparison, Nikon has 6 fast primes under $500:
- AF 50/1.8 - $135
- AF-S 35/1.8 - $200
- AF 50/1.4 - $340
- AF 35/2.0 - $360
- AF 85/1.8 - $450
- AF-S 50/1.4 - $485

As does Canon:
- EF 50/1.8 - $115
- EF 35/2.0 - $300
- EF 85/1.8 - $380
- EF 50/1.4 - $400
- EF 100/2.0 - $420
- EF 28/1.8 - $460


Note: I'm not trying to bash Pentax here, I don't expect Pentax to offer the same breadth of options as the Big Two, and I know most of those Canikon lenses are FF (but then, so are all but 1 fast Pentax lens, the DA*55).

I bring this up mainly in hopes of stressing to Pentax reps (who obviously read these fora) of the need for consumer-level fast primes. After all, Pentax is supposed to be known for its prime lenses, but if the average consumer can't afford them anyway, one of the biggest advantages to the brand is moot. Only 1 prime lens is of the regular DA level, the 14/2.8 ($680), everything else is DA* or DA Limited.

I remember a while back a Pentax rep saying that their intention was to recreate the focal lengths of 35mm, which is why we get lenses like the 35 (~50) macro Limited, the DA 14/2.8 and 15/4 Limited (~20-24) and the DA*55 (~85)

So what about a DA 55/1.8, DA 30-35/1.8, DA 23/2.0, DA 18/2.0??

At the very least it should take very little effort to optimize the FA 35/2.0 for digital bodies and re-release it as a D-FA lens...
05-22-2009, 09:36 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutedphotos Quote
In browsing through B&H listings I've noticed something that I never really realized before:

Pentax has only 1 fast lens under $500, the FA 50/1.4 at $250, and with that being the only non-Limited FA lens left, I wouldn't be surprised to see it disappear soon. If that does happen, the only fast lenses in the Pentax lineup will be the FA Limiteds and DA* 55, the cheapest of which would be the 43/1.9 at $530 (you could argue that the DA 70/2.4 Limited is a fast prime though)
As much as I would like a fast prime, I think pentax has indeed taken the approach of making the cheap ones tiny sized (DA LTDs) and if you want fast you have to buy bigger and more expensive FA LTDs. With this in mind there are no missing focal lengths under 100mm from the film era, unless you want to be really picky since some of them doesnt 100% corresponds to the old ones. And if you sacrifice speed for size and look at the prices, Pentax is still a good value imho.

The DA ltds are all under 500$, and all of them are great performers (except the 21mm maybe?). The 15 is still above 500 but that should change someday later.

Last edited by Andi Lo; 05-22-2009 at 09:43 PM.
05-22-2009, 09:45 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
. . .

The DA ltds are all under 500$, and all of them are great performers (except the 21mm maybe?). The 15 is still above 500 but that should change someday later.
I think some people have a habit of comparing 21mm lens with a 31mm/35mm/43mm lens etc. and don't realize the technical challenges that go with it. I have no issue with my Da 21mm. In fact, it is so small it is scary!

05-22-2009, 09:48 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutedphotos Quote
In browsing through B&H listings I've noticed something that I never really realized before:

Pentax has only 1 fast lens under $500, the FA 50/1.4 at $250, and with that being the only non-Limited FA lens left, I wouldn't be surprised to see it disappear soon. If that does happen, the only fast lenses in the Pentax lineup will be the FA Limiteds and DA* 55, the cheapest of which would be the 43/1.9 at $530 (you could argue that the DA 70/2.4 Limited is a fast prime though)

For comparison, Nikon has 6 fast primes under $500:
- AF 50/1.8 - $135
- AF-S 35/1.8 - $200
- AF 50/1.4 - $340
- AF 35/2.0 - $360
- AF 85/1.8 - $450
- AF-S 50/1.4 - $485

As does Canon:
- EF 50/1.8 - $115
- EF 35/2.0 - $300
- EF 85/1.8 - $380
- EF 50/1.4 - $400
- EF 100/2.0 - $420
- EF 28/1.8 - $460


Note: I'm not trying to bash Pentax here, I don't expect Pentax to offer the same breadth of options as the Big Two, and I know most of those Canikon lenses are FF (but then, so are all but 1 fast Pentax lens, the DA*55).

I bring this up mainly in hopes of stressing to Pentax reps (who obviously read these fora) of the need for consumer-level fast primes. After all, Pentax is supposed to be known for its prime lenses, but if the average consumer can't afford them anyway, one of the biggest advantages to the brand is moot. Only 1 prime lens is of the regular DA level, the 14/2.8 ($680), everything else is DA* or DA Limited.

I remember a while back a Pentax rep saying that their intention was to recreate the focal lengths of 35mm, which is why we get lenses like the 35 (~50) macro Limited, the DA 14/2.8 and 15/4 Limited (~20-24) and the DA*55 (~85)

So what about a DA 55/1.8, DA 30-35/1.8, DA 23/2.0, DA 18/2.0??

At the very least it should take very little effort to optimize the FA 35/2.0 for digital bodies and re-release it as a D-FA lens...
once again, great points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pentax introduces the flag ship K7, and introduces it with 2 expensive medicor lenses, instead of doing like canon and nikon and flooding the market with IQ affordable lenses, ohmigoshman Pentax, think about it,

Dave
05-22-2009, 10:34 PM   #36
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Look, peeps. Stop being so greedy! You've already got plenty of options in the normal-ish 30-40mm range. 31 f/1.8, 35 f/2.8, and 40 f/2.8.

What we (read: I) really need is something fast in the 35mm equivalent range. Something like a 24mm f/2 would do nicely. We (read: I) would even settle for a 24mm f/2.4 if they can keep the size down similar to, say, the 21 f/3.2.

Anybody else with me?

Ok, so that was meant light-heartedly if you couldn't tell, but there's some truth there too. I think there's more benefit to covering new focal lengths rather than redoing ones currently covered. While a fast 30mm would be nice, there's already a fast 31mm. There's nothing between 21mm and 31mm, which is a pretty big gap.
05-22-2009, 10:52 PM   #37
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^I agree, Yohan, but at $900 the 31 isn't a realistic option for many people and I think an affordable "fast-fifty" for the APS format would sell hugely, much more than a 35mm equivalent (though I'd want them to come out with that too, of course)

Oh how I'd love to see a DA 30/1.8 SDM WR for $200-250, but I imagine we'll get a DA* 30/1.4 for $500-600 instead
05-22-2009, 10:59 PM   #38
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If the Nikon 35 / 1.8 is anything to go with, the DA 30 /1.8 (if it's 1.8!) will indeed sell like hotcakes if it's even in the 300$ range. Otherwise we'll just have to be content with the DA macro or a rebadged / recoated FA 35.

I sincerely doubt that DA 30/1.8 will be a 1.8 because we have the FA ltd. If it does come out I'm guessing it will be a WR pancake 2.4 or something.

05-22-2009, 11:03 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutedphotos Quote
^I agree, Yohan, but at $900 the 31 isn't a realistic option for many people and I think an affordable "fast-fifty" for the APS format would sell hugely, much more than a 35mm equivalent (though I'd want them to come out with that too, of course)

Oh how I'd love to see a DA 30/1.8 SDM WR for $200-250, but I imagine we'll get a DA* 30/1.4 for $500-600 instead
so Pentax sales pitch is , save money, buy our cameras cause we put sr in the body, but yet sell lenses at the same price as those with IS built in

Dave
05-22-2009, 11:14 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
As mentioned, you would have had Kit Lens I with the K10: the DA-L II is actually the best kit lens out there, (especially around 35-40 mm and off the wide stop: dat's*nice*. Doesn't feel like a piece of crap, either. ) Still a kit lens, though, what do you want.



It's *better* than the other kit lenses. I still wouldn't pay extra to have that glass weathersealed, though, but I'm not the kit lens market. I'm a cranky ol' prime lens user who only has the kit lens cause it ...came with a kit. . (And, well, not really that cranky about it. ) Someone who wants to buy an outfit that they can take out in some rain or spray, and there's a lot of those someones, they're gonna love those.

Photography is ninety percent *being there.* People can take those kit zooms and blow the doors off anything for the money that can't even be there.
so are you saying the DA-L11 kit lens has better IQ than Nikon 18-105 kit lens

what do i want you ask. i would like for Pentax to hire people over the age of 5 to work in their marketing department, and if they do have people over the age of 5, well they are morons who has no clue about marketing.

Dave
05-22-2009, 11:16 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafiryde Quote
so Pentax sales pitch is , save money, buy our cameras cause we put sr in the body, but yet sell lenses at the same price as those with IS built in

Dave
Eh? Does anybody make moderate-wide to normal primes with IS/OS/VR?
05-22-2009, 11:26 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yohan Pamudji Quote
Eh? Does anybody make moderate-wide to normal primes with IS/OS/VR?
the point on the topic is price

Dave
05-23-2009, 02:36 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
I'd be happy enough with a redesigned 35/2.
That would be too slow for my favourite use of this lens, low light carnaval at night shooting. The f1.8 of the 31 is better so I hope for a 30/1.8 or 1.4.
I dont think it will compete too much with the 31.
I mean, the FA35/2.0 is almost as good as the 31 yet it managed to hold its own.
If they manage a 30/1.4 or 1.8 with the IQ of the 35/2.0 it will sell like hotcakes as the IQ is very good but they can still sell the 31. They might evantually even decide to keep have a DA35/2.0 so we may get a DA*30/1.4 wr, a DA35/2.0 (maybe wr) and a FA31/1.8 LE.
I don't think these models, while at about the same fl, will "bite" each other too much.
05-23-2009, 06:59 AM   #44
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If Pentax managed to have, at any one point in time, at least 5 different 50mm lenses in production during the 80's and 90's, I would think they could have at least 3 ~30-35mm lenses today and still be able to sell each. The lineup should be DA 35/2.8 Macro Limited, DA* 30/1.4, and DA 30/1.8.

(From '84-'89 there were 5 different 50mm A series lenses alone, with the 1.2, 1.4, 1.7, 2.0, and 2.8 macro!)
05-23-2009, 07:57 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
Why don't they keep the 31/1.8 for those who demand the highest quality and come out with a 30/1.8 with inferior build quality for those of us who don't want to pay $800 for a simple, normal prime?
Because I want the highest quality and I'd also like it to be weather sealed. And SDM would be a plus.

But I agree they should also make a cheaper version of the same. Pentax used to sell a 50mm f/1.2, f/1.4, f/1.7, and f/2.0. I there's plenty of room for a DA normal and a DA★ one, plus the 35mm Limited macro.
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