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05-22-2009, 09:06 AM   #16
ogl
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K-m SUPER with CMOS (3.5-4 fps) and with video quality lower than K-7's level. Soon.

05-22-2009, 09:15 AM   #17
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Oh boy, here we go again...

Wishful thinking, another rumour or what?
05-22-2009, 09:27 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K-m SUPER with CMOS (3.5-4 fps) and with video quality lower than K-7's level. Soon.
You can't undergo the 720p specification and still seriosly call it "video" in these times. Especially not in this lower segment where specification and text on the shop shelfs plays a big role.
05-22-2009, 09:30 AM   #19
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A lot of people keep mentioning the K30d, but don't you guys think that whatever the successor to the K20d is already pretty much the k7?

The changes made would be too small to market a completely different product line. The K7 is the most updated "enthusiast" model, so we really have to look up a segment, or down a segment. The k200d needs to be replaced and the K-m is relatively new, so it'll probably be a washed down version of the k7 (ie. plastic body, smaller size... etc...)

Even if they would release a k30d, wouldn't you expect it to be too soon?

My view is limited on all this, so ask me again in 18 months and I'll disagree with what i've said now... at that point.

05-22-2009, 09:45 AM   #20
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EDIT: I think all of these are feasible in the next 5 years. Exactly if or when they are relased would depend on the success of current models and projected markets (eg whether or not Pentax sees a market niche in an upgrade path from K-7 to FF).

Most likely to appear soon:

K-n: 14.6 mp Samsung CMOS, Liveview and HD video features from K-7, still no weathersealing?, a few more advanced features but still similar to K-m. New special colors and limited editions.

K300D or K30D (no need for both anymore): 14.6 mp Samsung CMOS. closer to K-7 size; SAFOX VIII+ AF module, HD Video and Liveview; otherwise similar to K200D (top LCD, weathersealed etc.)One good question: K200, K20 or K-7 VF? This camera replaces K20D and K200D in one fell swoop.

645D. I don't know jack sh*t about MF so someone else can speculate on this one. Can they use any K-7 goodies on it?

AFTER THAT:

K-_. Updated model based on K-7. SAFOX IX. >1/250 X-sync. Continued HD video improvements to maintain Pentax's newfound cutting-edge positon in this regard.

AFTER THAT (PERHAPS):

FF model: New Samsung FF Sensor, SAFOX IX. Updated FA and FA* roadmap

Micro 4/3 or Digital Rangefinder style camera: NX mount?/K with adapter (K is too big?). APS-C sensor. Pentax 110 retro styling. Hoya WILL jump on this bandwagon if and when the market is there and using the fat warchest from the K-m and K-7.

Last edited by PaddyB; 05-23-2009 at 05:52 AM.
05-22-2009, 02:21 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
The K-7 is what would have been the replacement Kx0d. (Not just my guess - JohnCPentax basically says the same thing on the dpreview forums.)

I think it's pretty obvious that the K200D is next for an update. It'll get some K-7-like features in a body that's closer to the K-m. And my guess is it'll be called K-[someletter].
Excellent point, Matt. I forgot about the 200D. It seems that Pentax just stopped production on that line. I also thought they only wanted 3 lines. (i.e. K-m, KX0, K7) But, as you say, the K7 may just take the K20D's slot. I think Pentax should make that clear. Many think that there will be a K30. I just don't see it at this point.

I'd be surprised if there's a K-m weather-sealed version soon. I think the important thing there is to have a model that competes at the vicious entry-level price range. (Ideally, under $400 for body-only.)

True, it is 'vicious' I just don't know how they can churn out the models as quick as Canon, et. al.



As for what I want, it's still that DA★ 30mm.
It seems that they took this lens off the road map. I see it mentioned but I wonder if Hoya changed plans. It seems that from what I read Hoya felt Pentax lacked a uniform plan. I think it would be an interesting lens. Perhaps they will bring it back or I suspect go with a wider FL.

QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
K-m is nor weather sealed. Where's the point to sell it with weather sealed lenses.
Sorry, I wasn't more clear. I was suggesting that they weather seal the next K-m iteration and then package it with the WR lenses. I agree without the weather sealing it makes little sense. I think as Matt stated, the KX00 upgrade would make more sense.

In my opinion K-7 is that camera for Limited lenses.
QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
Is it unquestionable that the next model release is another step up from K-7? I mean, keeping the K20 in production a while until the K-7 price stabilizes don't leave a too large price slot to place a new camera in. With a K-m Super even less so.
I certainly think that the next flagship will have to be higher spec'd. However, R&D time and production times as they are I hate to see Pentax lose the momentum. It may be 18-24 mo before the next (r)evolution model. I hope not, but would any of us be surprised? Look at the time from the K10D to now.
QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
Amen to that -- I just upgraded from the kit lens to the DA40 today, and I've been stunned by the difference, both in IQ and general handling.

What I'd like to see next -- and I know that many will vehemently disapprove -- is a sister to the K7 with similar internals, less of an emphasis on weather sealing, and an articulated LCD screen. It wouldn't cost much for Pentax to develop a body like this, and this option would appeal to those shooters like myself who are not likely to take their precious precious SLRs into adverse environments, and would appreciate the extra flexibility of an articulated screen.

I'll stand by now while you gather your collective rotten tomatoes ....

Oh, and I too would like to join the chorus of those who would like to see OpenEXR output from HDR pictures. It only seems logical!
No tomatoes here. I agree that I love the weather sealing but for me it is a backup and I don't take my limiteds out in bad weather anyway. I don't need an articulated screen but many do. I will be interested in seeing the effect of the antireflective coatings on the LCD

QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
1) Bring out the 645 right away, and sub $5,000.00 - a one-two punch to Canikosopanoly. Give a bunch out to pros who are currently shooting other makes - they'd be devastated.

2) Update the K20 to a K30 Super (250 flash sync to stop the whining....)

3) New K300D

4) more Krazy Kolours KM'z fur da kidz hoo kant spel

5) Start the rumour mill whirring about the upcoming K5 - 3 - 1 pro with Holographic heads-up-display viewfinders and F1 or better lenses

5) A DA* 135 f2.8 for me please! Or a weather sealed Limited 135 f1.9162548937

6) Put Benzy-can back on the payroll for his stunning photography and apologize to him - hire me to do the music for his grand reinstallation ceremony, rent the Louvre for the event, etc...

Cheers,
Cameron
I love dem krazy Kolors!
05-22-2009, 02:23 PM   #22
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What are you people smoking?
05-22-2009, 02:51 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
What are you people smoking?
No kidding.

Re the next move: market the hell out of the K-7 and the Limited line. Focus on tough and WR bodies and lenses. Less is more. There is no reason to have multiple overlapping bodies (K30D/K20 Super/K300D.) Update the K-m to include WR and the CMOS, but leave somethings off (VF, FPS, etc.) and you're back to a sleek and refined dSLR line-up, which leaves time and resources to go whole hog into the 645D project.

05-22-2009, 04:01 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
645D - winter/spring 2009/2010.
FF - 2011.
Won't the 645D eliminate the need for FF?

For a company of Pentax's size, and based on the naming conventions, I see 5 product lines:

Consumer - including weatherized Optios and long zooms
Entry-level dSLR - Knnnn (K-2000 $600)
Mid-level dSLR - Knnn (K-200d $500)
Prosumer - Knn (K-20d originally $1200, now $650)
Entry-level Pro - Kn ($1300)
Pro - 645D (??? $1800+)

I think Pentax has too many lines between $600 and $1300 and will eventually merge the Knnnn and Knnn lines into one, leaving:

Knnnn - $500-$600
Knn - $800-900 (the K20d successor?)
Kn - $1300

The Consumer line aside, Pentax appears to have the resources to launch at most 2 new cameras/year. Last year was K-m, K200d, and K20d, but only the K-m was completely new. I'd assume that the K200d and K20d took fewer resources to develop because they didn't start with a blank slate.

So with the K-7 launched, I'd guess that internal resources are focused on the 645D. Hopefully there are enough resources to work concurrently on upgrading the oldest bodies in their lineup, which is the successor to the K20d, assuming that the K2000/K200 lines are merged.

I've rambled long enough. That's my $.02.
05-22-2009, 04:48 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
So with the K-7 launched, I'd guess that internal resources are focused on the 645D. Hopefully there are enough resources to work concurrently on upgrading the oldest bodies in their lineup, which is the successor to the K20d, assuming that the K2000/K200 lines are merged.

I've rambled long enough. That's my $.02.
They need the cash flow from a successful K-7 to build out the "uniform" (meaning planned and integrated, where there are synergies between actions and outputs across body platforms and lenses) business plan that Hoya wants to develop for Pentax.

The core business identity themes seem to be:
  • durable
  • weather resistant
  • optics
  • value
  • a bit of an edgy, Subaru-like, interesting appeal
I'm in.
05-22-2009, 07:46 PM   #26
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Pentax needs to streamline its use of the PRIME series DSP.

P&S is the bread and butter for all camera manufacturers. A DSLR-only company can only last as long as it's doing extremely well. So far Pentax is, but why put all eggs in 1 basket.

This is why they need to put PRIME and PRIME II in all of their cameras. Streamline their process so that the PRIME line can be used and re-used across the entire lines of cameras, DSLR and P&S included.

Pentax P&S (and often DSLR) were often criticized by their lack of speed and processing prowess. compared to Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic counterparts. I think the X70 is in the right direction (a P&S with PASM) - but the design of almost the entire camera is outsourced, from what I've read.

Canon was the first to use DIGIC on all of their cameras. Their P&S got DIGIC 1 while the higher models got DIGIC 2. When DIGIC 3 came out the cheaper cameras all upgraded to DIGIC 2. Nikon does the same thing with its EXSPEED and Sony with Bionz.

It makes sense because it provides a low cost (R&D results reusable) upgrade path for all camera lines, and it enforces the message that even P&S are taken seriously, so when people upgrade to DSLR they'll have an idea what good things to expect.
05-22-2009, 07:59 PM   #27
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The next camera should be what we were told the K-7 was, a camera with "soul" that tapped into what Pentax and photography is all about.... a Limited body in other words.

This would be smaller and neater with the same all-metal design. There's no reason why most of the features couldn't remain, but at least a couple of buttons would have to go to allow size reduction. Reduce the screen size again. Get rid of live view... I don't care -- those aren't real photography features. The entire interface needs to change to be less like a computer and more like a camera. Ban all modes. Bring back hardware-designed affordance and logical controls... even the Pentax 645 pointed in this direction.

A camera that can fit in a (large) pocket and still get an excellent shot is what we expect from 35mm, so we'd better have it from the cropped format compromise. Otherwise why not medium format?

(Obviously this camera would not replace the current line-up but provide an alternative for a different type of shooter.)
05-22-2009, 10:48 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
The next camera should be what we were told the K-7 was, a camera with "soul" that tapped into what Pentax and photography is all about.... a Limited body in other words.

This would be smaller and neater with the same all-metal design. There's no reason why most of the features couldn't remain, but at least a couple of buttons would have to go to allow size reduction. Reduce the screen size again. Get rid of live view... I don't care -- those aren't real photography features. The entire interface needs to change to be less like a computer and more like a camera. Ban all modes. Bring back hardware-designed affordance and logical controls... even the Pentax 645 pointed in this direction.

A camera that can fit in a (large) pocket and still get an excellent shot is what we expect from 35mm, so we'd better have it from the cropped format compromise. Otherwise why not medium format?

(Obviously this camera would not replace the current line-up but provide an alternative for a different type of shooter.)
Very good idea - as long as you don't expect this body to be more than $100 cheaper than the K-7...

As to my guess of what the next body will be:

- 14MP CMOS sensor
- PRIME II
- Polycarbonate body on stainless steel frame, weather sealing (i.e. like the K200D)
- 4 fps up to 20 JPG or 8 RAW
- Same white balance selection as K200D
- ISO 100 - 3200
- 1/4000 shutter
- Dust reduction II
- SR from K-7, but no composition adjustment or leveling
- No dead pixel mapping
- AF adjustment, but limited to 5 lenses
- new 77 zone metering
- SAFOX VIII+ from K-7
- Scene modes plus Autopic, P, Av, Tv, M, B. No X or User mode.
- RAW button
- Same built in flash as K200D
- No X-Sync socket
- Same battery type as K-7
- plus/minus 2 EV bracketing only
- Extended DR
- In-camera HDR
- Live View, Video (face it, these features are going to stay no matter how "unphotographic" we see them)
- No MLU, only the automatic MLU on the 2 second timer
- new 3" IPS LCD screen from K-7
- HDMI port

plus exactly 3 features from the following list:
- 2 dials with TAv and HyperP
- top status LCD.
- A 92% prism finder
- wireless flash controller
- Battery grip available

Size and weight: K-7 sized, K-200 weight
MSRP: $899

Last edited by wolfier; 05-22-2009 at 11:20 PM.
05-23-2009, 12:08 AM   #29
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K-7 super
K-7 lite
05-23-2009, 12:09 AM   #30
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I'm surprised no-one has suggested more lenses at the telephoto end, an area where Canon and Nikon traditionally have always had an advantage. I'd love to see Pentax come out with something to tempt wildlife and sports shooters over from other brands - a nice fast 400, 500, 600.
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