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08-10-2009, 06:29 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by AbandonPhuwan Quote
Canon EOS-1D and EOS 1Ds can go under water for about 3 meters if mounted with the 'Top of the line' L series Lens. (I'm not sure...but I think they can.)
Yeah I'm going to do that with $10,000+ worth of gear! Not a chance. I can hear the conversation with my insurance guy now. "You did what?" As he falls off his chair laughing.

I'm assuming you're meaning the current models (although the old ones are no better) EOS-1Ds Mk111 is listed as weather resistant and dust resistant. They make no more mention of waterproofing than Pentax does on the K20 or K-7


Last edited by Peter Zack; 08-10-2009 at 06:44 AM.
08-11-2009, 03:52 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by AbandonPhuwan Quote
Canon EOS-1D and EOS 1Ds can go under water for about 3 meters if mounted with the 'Top of the line' L series Lens. (I'm not sure...but I think they can.)
Are You serious?

Some quotes from K20d review on photo.net ( Pentax K20D Review - photo.net ):

"...only the K20D offers the highest level of dust and weather resistant seals found on an SLR."

"The K20D is most similar to the Olympus E-3—both have the highest weather sealing available, and when a weather sealed lens is attached they are more weather proof than a Nikon D3 or Canon 1D series. Pentax and Olympus DSLRs are the only splash proof cameras on the market."
08-11-2009, 04:28 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Roberts Quote
Are You serious?

Some quotes from K20d review on photo.net ( Pentax K20D Review - photo.net ):

"...only the K20D offers the highest level of dust and weather resistant seals found on an SLR."

"The K20D is most similar to the Olympus E-3—both have the highest weather sealing available, and when a weather sealed lens is attached they are more weather proof than a Nikon D3 or Canon 1D series. Pentax and Olympus DSLRs are the only splash proof cameras on the market."
From the review containing that statement I recall it was preceeded by stating the total number of seals so the comment was really in that context and has nothing to do with the how robust the sealing itself is in terms of strength.

Not trying to diminish the sealing; I just took away a different meaning based on the context of the statement.
08-14-2009, 04:06 AM   #34
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You may want to check out Mark Dimalanta's blog.... some surfing pictures with the K7:

chasing light...: Having fun with an assortment of Pentax cameras. The Pentax K7 deep in the jungles of the Mentawai Islands

08-14-2009, 09:08 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by AbandonPhuwan Quote
Canon EOS-1D and EOS 1Ds can go under water for about 3 meters if mounted with the 'Top of the line' L series Lens. (I'm not sure...but I think they can.)
Right, go try that.

YouTube - It's a sad day to be a Canon 600mm
08-15-2009, 12:41 PM   #36
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It may be good, but I still wouldn't throw it in the sea.

It may not float, making it more difficult to find.
09-16-2009, 08:51 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
IIRC, the story behind that is that the tripod head broke, the camera and very heavy lens went crashing onto concrete, the lens broke off and rolled into the water and they had to get divers to retrieve it. So it wasn't just dunked or anything like that...

That said, I have never heard the '3 meters' figure and I can guarantee Canon would never ever stand behind that. I HAVE heard of 1-series bodies with weather sealed lenses toppling over into water a few times but they were pulled up within seconds and suffered no damage. Extensive submersion, eh, you won't catch me trying THAT on my gear.
09-18-2009, 06:46 AM   #38
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09-25-2009, 03:03 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
IIRC, the story behind that is that the tripod head broke, the camera and very heavy lens went crashing onto concrete, the lens broke off and rolled into the water and they had to get divers to retrieve it. So it wasn't just dunked or anything like that...

That said, I have never heard the '3 meters' figure and I can guarantee Canon would never ever stand behind that. I HAVE heard of 1-series bodies with weather sealed lenses toppling over into water a few times but they were pulled up within seconds and suffered no damage. Extensive submersion, eh, you won't catch me trying THAT on my gear.
Don't want to sound offensive or anything but I wonder why Canikon shooters use lens/camera jackets at sport events when it rains.

http://live.psu.edu/slnoflash2/userpics/10004/normal_12mcnally_m01.jpg
http://www.chrisdetrick.com/blog/uploaded_images/_1CD7783-719142.JPG

oh wait, I found one that shoots without a cover...
http://www.chrisdetrick.com/blog/uploaded_images/_1CD7778-719098.JPG

I guess they don't know what their gear is capable of.
09-25-2009, 08:14 AM   #40
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I wouldn't recommend it, but I have used a garden hose to clean my K20D many times, after covering it with mud and paintballs.
The weatherproofing on the K10/20/7 is very good.
09-26-2009, 04:43 PM   #41
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you could use this kind of shot as a pentax ad to show the weatherproofing
09-27-2009, 12:58 PM   #42
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so if you want to look like a pro at the sporting events put some plastic wrap on your equipment lol
09-28-2009, 01:29 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
My main question is exactly what PSI rating the seals have. There needs to be a ballpark value or the sealing is meaningless. Right now it is hope the exposure is not too much for them to handle.

As for salt water exposure. I have no issue with salt water exposure on my K20D. I used to do a lot of salt water fishing for fun. Reels make the cost of a camera body look like peanuts. Rods are even more expensive. Even the best metals and alloy's or even ceramics will eventually corrode from salt water exposure. The key to it is a good rinsing in fresh water as soon as possible, ideally w/o allowing the water to dry on the body before rinsing. Using a gentle stream from a faucet should present zero problem for the seals as long as one takes care to not blast the water flow into the seals. The idea is just to get the salt and other minerals off the body and portion of the seals which are exposed.

When it comes to cleaning gear fishing or camera, the sooner after exposure the better. Actually the same goes for river, lake or whatever water. I like to carry or keep gallon bottles of distilled water for a final rinse after the tap water and even soft water can be corrosive to rubber seals so that final rinse can only help.

My other concern with respect to the sealing is a really basic one...what is the lifespan before they begin to break down. What are the seals made of? That will help the consumer know what is reasonable to expect. I certainly hope they are not simply some form of rubber. Then again I have no idea what the current level of these things might be...

To me the sealing is in the top two reasons for switching to Pentax...along with in body SR. So the more details Pentax offers the happier a user I will be...

The cynic in my says that a reason they will not disclose these things are to keep people buying new lenses over used...right now a lot of competition comes from 20-30yr old lenses they made themselves. I see people who take a lot of shots out in the elements selling they lenses fairly often just to be safe.
There is two industries standards that most camera manufacturers use. Both rate electronic gear for weather/water/dust resistance. The first is IEC (European Community Specification) and JIS (Japanese Industry Standard)

My first digital was the Kodak DC5000 it was weather/dust resistant and rated for drops of 3' onto concrete, it was as large as the K10D, but with a small built in lens.



The DC5000 had rubber sealed doors (I occasional oiled them) with pressure locks and thick rubber coatings all around the hard plastic body, the lens barrel is metal and it came with a screw on filter with an oring around the front of that lens barrel I have used it in all weather, and even put it in a shower, I have purposely dropped it onto grass in front of my neighbor for shi*& and giggles no harm at all 10 years latter its still taking pics almost everyday as I taught my 82 year old mother how to use it. Its official rating was "IP code 54 per IEC 529". The first digit is the level of protection from solid objects like dust, the 5 = is dust protected, 4 = protected from splashes of water in all directions. How much pressure? Oh your a tough one but here is your answer 10 liters/min at
a gage pressure of 80-100kN/m2 for 5 min.
This or the Kodak DC5000. I will leave it up to you to goggle JIS and IEC, you will find some interesting stuff. Olympus E3 has a very high JIS rating! Its ver well sealed to the least. Pentax does rate many of its cameras with the JIS rating. However they do not rate dSLRs, why? Here is the reason from Pentax engineer who sealed the K10D, he was asked how weather proof is the K10D -

"In an SLR, it is rather difficult to apply the JIS (Japan Industrial Standard) classification because lenses have to be changed. We set our own in-house standard for weather/dust proofing, anticipating actual environments users might encounter, and exceeded those standards.

In the case of an SLR, the body is made of so many parts and cannot avoid complicated seams. All seams had to be sealed, then the weather proofing of moving control parts has to be evaluated beginning from the selection of material. For waterproofing, because just one missing or loose sealing will allow water or dust entering into body, we had be extremely careful. It is ultimately a choice of either “doing” it or “not doing” it altogether, and there is no in-between. In order to obtain perfect weather/dust proofing, every detail had to be plugged, taking a lot of time and cost. However, we believe we plugged all seams."

you thought I was going to tell you how much pressure the seals can take before leakage, the SD card door is held by a latch that latch is spring loaded and pulls the door in against the seals, thats fairly tight, the side port door is slightly pushed with those ball bearings, the battery door is pressure sealed nice and tight. Hmmm take a look at the Oly E3 JIS rating, the problem is I can't find any inner pics of how well make the Oly E3 is? I think it may be just a tad stronger than the K20D in all ways, what do you think?

Oh as to how long the seals last. The contact seals around the doors are silicone and will last years. The inner seals will last for years as long as the camera is not taken apart this according to the service manual decrease sealing and any seals the look bad must be replaced. Silicone is a long life substance, my Kodak DC5000 is still holding out water and it used normal rubber. The door seals are also pressure sealed so even if they wear down they will still hold at the doors are pushing on the seals. But silicone is some nice stuff. So is Polycarbonate the outer-shell, and the inner chassis is stainless-steel and polycarbonate salt water will not hurt the mechanical shell and chassis at all, nor can it get in.

Last edited by jamesm007; 09-28-2009 at 01:36 PM.
10-01-2009, 11:57 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
So is Polycarbonate the outer-shell, and the inner chassis is stainless-steel and polycarbonate salt water will not hurt the mechanical shell and chassis at all, nor can it get in.
Kinda sounds as if you have not spent much time fishing in the Pacific Ocean, or any other for that matter. I use high end rigs that cost a LOT more than a DSLR body. These reels, rods and other gear are made of the best stainless, polycarbonate and such...and trust me a single season of not washing off the salt water after each use and the thing will at minimum show corrosion and at worst be complete trash. Remember in addition to the salt there are lots of abrasives in salt water which will, over time and neglect damage the surface of your gear.

Also even rubber and silcone rubber will be ruined by enough salt water exposure.

What it might really be is the combo of not just the salt water but also the wind and sun that is present on the ocean.

So to say that salt water will not harm your gear is a bit of a mis-statement I think. One exposure will likely not do any harm but regular use will indeed eat your device into dust in very short order.
10-02-2009, 02:29 AM   #45
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I read that in a Norwegen publication.
They left the camera in the rain for a few hours and then froze it in the freezer.
When they went to use it again, it worked first time after a few minutes.
I will try to find the publication.

Got it.

Here is the link to a link in DPreview.

The freezer test: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Impressive if you ask me.

EDIT
Oops.

there is a link on this site also

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/74824-k-7-wins-top-sco...an-review.html
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