K-7 - Camera of the Year 2009

janneman · 05-27-2009, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac

I can't think of anything that the D400 'won't' be able to match, except maybe body size... )

The real thing is not that there is nothing that the D400 won't be able to match.The real thing is, have the Nikon desogners actually thought of adding these "anythings"

janneman · 05-27-2009, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac

Say what???

17-55/f2.8 DX
70-200/f2.8 VR
200-400/f4 VR
200/f2.0 VR
28-70/f2.8
80-200/f2.8 ED
plus many more i don't know of..

dunno who told you Nikon doesn't make weather-sealed lenses but, well, they're wrong...

Who told youthat these lenses are sealed????

Umm, I have taken a good look at the Nikon system when the "sealed"D200 came out, and again when I was curious aboutthe Fuji S5 as it is becoming dirt cheap and had nice DR so as these bodies had sealing I wanted to know about sealed lenses.

So I called both shops AND the Dutch Nikon rep....
Nikon representative said: "umm, err, not sure, I gues our professional lenses"
Me: "and those are??"
Rep: "err I guess the more expensive ones"
Me: "so you have no dta? no brochures?"
Rep: "no"
That was around D200 time... Same replies when I asked at Fuji S5 enquiry.

I also visited a few shops. Many praised the lense but again, no-one could tell me.
The shop was a bit more useful with more bits of data.
-In general the sealed were the longer ones, they did not know of any shorter lenses that were sealed (obviously the 17-55 was not out by then (by the way I have not found any info on that lens being sealed at all, just a rubber sealing mount as has the Pentax17-70 (source: nikon website).
-Nikon sealing not up to Oly standards, just "some protection against moisture and dust"
(That was when Petax was not yet sealed. when I came back a while later after the DA* lenses appeared they told me "if you are really into sealed cameras and lenses you really should also check out Pentax!)

By the way, you should add the 14-24 and the 24-70, but that is all the "many more"as far as I have been able to tell form the Nikon.com website (this info is not available on the Dutch website). Also, none of the lenses with VR are sealed....

nickthetasmaniac · 05-27-2009, 06:08 PM

I was told by Nikon users that those lenses are sealed. But there does seem to be alot of confusion, even amongst Nikonians, about exactly which lenses are sealed.

Not to be taken out of context, i fully admit that Nikon/Canon/Olympus can't match Pentax for quality, affordable sealed lenses (in this instance i think DA* lenses are 'affordable')

As for in-body stabilisation, I prefer it, but alot of photographers still claim in-lens is more effective... So in-body isn't necessarily something D400 buyers will want.

janneman · 05-28-2009, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac

I was told by Nikon users that those lenses are sealed. But there does seem to be alot of confusion, even amongst Nikonians, about exactly which lenses are sealed.

Oddly enough, I have found that seaoig or not can be found on a nikon site...
However, they have very or words for describing "sealed":
Nikon on 14-24:
Engineered to Nikon professional D-SLR standards to effectively resist dust and moisture
Nikon on AF-S 24-70 f/2.8G ED
Engineered to Nikon professional D-SLR standards to effectively resist dust and moisture
Nikon on AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 200-400mm f/4G IF-ED
Dust and Waterproof rubber sealing mount
etc etc. So there are some VR lenses with "sealing"after all...
17-55 has the same "dus and waterproof rubber sealing mount"so I think that must be like "our"17-70 which only has a rubber O-ring at the mount but is not sealed itsself...
I wonder how good the Nikkor lenses really are, I mean, wouldn't a rubber mount make the lens wobbly???

nosnoop · 05-29-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac

So in-body isn't necessarily something D400 buyers will want.

Shhh.... but many of them are secretly jealous of our stabilized normal and wide primes, and our stabilized limited lens.

With our 50mm F/1.4 at ISO 3200, we can potentially take hand held shot down to EV -0.5 to -1.5! And that's beyond the metering range! Yeah, try to beat that.

Ratmagiclady · 05-31-2009, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by janneman

So there are some VR lenses with "sealing"after all...
17-55 has the same "dus and waterproof rubber sealing mount"so I think that must be like "our"17-70 which only has a rubber O-ring at the mount but is not sealed itsself...
I wonder how good the Nikkor lenses really are, I mean, wouldn't a rubber mount make the lens wobbly???

I'm sure they don't mean the mounts are made *entirely* of rubber.

RMabo · 05-31-2009, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by bymy141

I did download a few of the .dng files of the Pentax.eu website yesterday, and I'm not impressed AT ALL by the ISO 200 performance. It is terrible.
The blue in the sky is filled with chromatic noise artifacts. My K10D beats it's IQ hands down. So far, I consider the K7 results as wishfull thinking until I see some real proof.

Images were taken in the K-7 enhanced DR-mode. It is the same thing with the K20D, it adds noise and this is the drawback of this built-in software manipulation. Or really, it doesn't add noise, it just makes it more visible. With the enhanced DR-mode turned off, it gets much better.

However, the enhanced DR function can save some images in tricky light conditions, but perhaps the built-in HDR function is better to use. This is still left to be tested.

Oh and note that the K10D does not have the enhanced DR function.

robgo2 · 06-01-2009, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by janneman

The real thing is not that there is nothing that the D400 won't be able to match.The real thing is, have the Nikon desogners actually thought of adding these "anythings"

The Nikon designers may not have thought of every feature that has been packed into the K-7, but I would be willing to bet that they have thought of some others that the Pentax lacks. Camera design is essentially a game of leap-frog. Staying ahead of the competition can be measured in months or, at most, one to two years.

Rob

m8o · 06-01-2009, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by illdefined

well so far, it absolutely is. but we have to wait and see what the D400 brings.

and the A800...and the Olympus MFT....

It only took the 3rd post in the thread to burst our bubble!

RBellavance · 06-01-2009, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by nosnoop

Shhh.... but many of them are secretly jealous of our stabilized normal and wide primes, and our stabilized limited lens.

With our 50mm F/1.4 at ISO 3200, we can potentially take hand held shot down to EV -0.5 to -1.5! And that's beyond the metering range! Yeah, try to beat that.

In my experience, most say that stabilisation is unnecessary/useless on fast primes and wide-angle lenses.

They just don't know what they're missing

05-27-2009, 03:47 PM	#32
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Nikon makes Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac Say what??? 17-55/f2.8 DX 70-200/f2.8 VR 200-400/f4 VR 200/f2.0 VR 28-70/f2.8 80-200/f2.8 ED plus many more i don't know of.. dunno who told you Nikon doesn't make weather-sealed lenses but, well, they're wrong... Who told youthat these lenses are sealed???? Umm, I have taken a good look at the Nikon system when the "sealed"D200 came out, and again when I was curious aboutthe Fuji S5 as it is becoming dirt cheap and had nice DR so as these bodies had sealing I wanted to know about sealed lenses. So I called both shops AND the Dutch Nikon rep.... Nikon representative said: "umm, err, not sure, I gues our professional lenses" Me: "and those are??" Rep: "err I guess the more expensive ones" Me: "so you have no dta? no brochures?" Rep: "no" That was around D200 time... Same replies when I asked at Fuji S5 enquiry. I also visited a few shops. Many praised the lense but again, no-one could tell me. The shop was a bit more useful with more bits of data. -In general the sealed were the longer ones, they did not know of any shorter lenses that were sealed (obviously the 17-55 was not out by then (by the way I have not found any info on that lens being sealed at all, just a rubber sealing mount as has the Pentax17-70 (source: nikon website). -Nikon sealing not up to Oly standards, just "some protection against moisture and dust" (That was when Petax was not yet sealed. when I came back a while later after the DA* lenses appeared they told me "if you are really into sealed cameras and lenses you really should also check out Pentax!) By the way, you should add the 14-24 and the 24-70, but that is all the "many more"as far as I have been able to tell form the Nikon.com website (this info is not available on the Dutch website). Also, none of the lenses with VR are sealed....

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05-27-2009, 03:15 PM	#31
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac I can't think of anything that the D400 'won't' be able to match, except maybe body size... ) The real thing is not that there is nothing that the D400 won't be able to match.The real thing is, have the Nikon desogners actually thought of adding these "anythings"

05-27-2009, 06:08 PM	#33
nickthetasmaniac Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,361	I was told by Nikon users that those lenses are sealed. But there does seem to be alot of confusion, even amongst Nikonians, about exactly which lenses are sealed. Not to be taken out of context, i fully admit that Nikon/Canon/Olympus can't match Pentax for quality, affordable sealed lenses (in this instance i think DA* lenses are 'affordable') As for in-body stabilisation, I prefer it, but alot of photographers still claim in-lens is more effective... So in-body isn't necessarily something D400 buyers will want.

05-28-2009, 12:11 AM	#34
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac I was told by Nikon users that those lenses are sealed. But there does seem to be alot of confusion, even amongst Nikonians, about exactly which lenses are sealed. Oddly enough, I have found that seaoig or not can be found on a nikon site... However, they have very or words for describing "sealed": Nikon on 14-24: Engineered to Nikon professional D-SLR standards to effectively resist dust and moisture Nikon on AF-S 24-70 f/2.8G ED Engineered to Nikon professional D-SLR standards to effectively resist dust and moisture *Nikon on AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 200-400mm f/4G IF-ED* Dust and Waterproof rubber sealing mount etc etc. So there are some VR lenses with "sealing"after all... 17-55 has the same "dus and waterproof rubber sealing mount"so I think that must be like "our"17-70 which only has a rubber O-ring at the mount but is not sealed itsself... I wonder how good the Nikkor lenses really are, I mean, wouldn't a rubber mount make the lens wobbly???

05-29-2009, 04:06 PM	#35
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac So in-body isn't necessarily something D400 buyers will want. Shhh.... but many of them are secretly jealous of our stabilized normal and wide primes, and our stabilized limited lens. With our 50mm F/1.4 at ISO 3200, we can potentially take hand held shot down to EV -0.5 to -1.5! And that's beyond the metering range! Yeah, try to beat that.

05-31-2009, 10:52 AM	#36
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by janneman So there are some VR lenses with "sealing"after all... 17-55 has the same "dus and waterproof rubber sealing mount"so I think that must be like "our"17-70 which only has a rubber O-ring at the mount but is not sealed itsself... I wonder how good the Nikkor lenses really are, I mean, wouldn't a rubber mount make the lens wobbly??? I'm sure they don't mean the mounts are made entirely of rubber.

05-31-2009, 01:27 PM	#37
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Originally posted by bymy141 I did download a few of the .dng files of the Pentax.eu website yesterday, and I'm not impressed AT ALL by the ISO 200 performance. It is terrible. The blue in the sky is filled with chromatic noise artifacts. My K10D beats it's IQ hands down. So far, I consider the K7 results as wishfull thinking until I see some real proof. Images were taken in the K-7 enhanced DR-mode. It is the same thing with the K20D, it adds noise and this is the drawback of this built-in software manipulation. Or really, it doesn't add noise, it just makes it more visible. With the enhanced DR-mode turned off, it gets much better. However, the enhanced DR function can save some images in tricky light conditions, but perhaps the built-in HDR function is better to use. This is still left to be tested. Oh and note that the K10D does not have the enhanced DR function.

06-01-2009, 07:30 AM	#38
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by janneman The real thing is not that there is nothing that the D400 won't be able to match.The real thing is, have the Nikon desogners actually thought of adding these "anythings" The Nikon designers may not have thought of every feature that has been packed into the K-7, but I would be willing to bet that they have thought of some others that the Pentax lacks. Camera design is essentially a game of leap-frog. Staying ahead of the competition can be measured in months or, at most, one to two years. Rob

06-01-2009, 07:44 AM	#39
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	Originally posted by illdefined well so far, it absolutely is. but we have to wait and see what the D400 brings. and the A800...and the Olympus MFT.... It only took the 3rd post in the thread to burst our bubble!

06-01-2009, 07:53 AM	#40
RBellavance Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Near Montréal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by nosnoop Shhh.... but many of them are secretly jealous of our stabilized normal and wide primes, and our stabilized limited lens. With our 50mm F/1.4 at ISO 3200, we can potentially take hand held shot down to EV -0.5 to -1.5! And that's beyond the metering range! Yeah, try to beat that. In my experience, most say that stabilisation is unnecessary/useless on fast primes and wide-angle lenses. They just don't know what they're missing