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05-28-2009, 12:02 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by nickthetasmaniac Quote

Therefore the K-7 is effectively the K20D's replacement, in that there isn't going to be an actual K30 or whatever. I reckon Pentax has simply decided to kill off that line
I don't think anyone's mentioned this, but the real restriction is, perhaps, available manufacturing space and staff.

With the
645D
K7
K700??
Km

Thats 4 manufacturing lines, there probably isn't the room and overhead for a K20 line.

Folks say that Pentax can't compete with a Canon or Nikon, i don't think thats true. Smaller companies can often be more innovative and nimble to changing markets. With large US Banks, GM and Chrysler failing, I will never again assume that larger is better. Also don't forget that in the 90's, that the hippie kids at Microsoft took the suits at IBM to the cleaners.

05-28-2009, 12:40 PM   #17
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The K20D competed with the Nikon D300 in terms of build quality and image quality.
But the Nikon did have faster continous shooting, faster shutter and viewfinder with more coverage. K20D also competed with the Canon 40D, but the 40D had faster shutter and faster continous shooting, however the K20D had higher build quality.
Somehow the K20D fell "between two chairds", in-between the Nikon D300 and D80/D90.

Now, K-7 raises the bar for Pentax and matches the 300D in many areas + exceeds it in other areas. So K-7 is much more competetive than the K20D was.
05-28-2009, 02:00 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
The K20D competed with the Nikon D300 in terms of build quality and image quality.
But the Nikon did have faster continous shooting, faster shutter and viewfinder with more coverage. K20D also competed with the Canon 40D, but the 40D had faster shutter and faster continous shooting, however the K20D had higher build quality.
Somehow the K20D fell "between two chairds", in-between the Nikon D300 and D80/D90.

Now, K-7 raises the bar for Pentax and matches the 300D in many areas + exceeds it in other areas. So K-7 is much more competetive than the K20D was.
but the problem is that K-7 (no production units yet, right ?) will be competing against D400, not against the camera released in ... well, back in 2007
05-28-2009, 10:11 PM   #19
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Well, the thing about this is that comes this Christmas, Pentax will have a very goofy looking DSLR that is supposed to replace K200D according to one of the interviews given by the R and D guys at PIE. This means that the sensor will be at least the same as K20D, if not better, and more fps, less noise, perhaps down to 1/4000, while maintaining WR. As some of you suggest, this will cause some congestions in terms of the product line-up. Knowing for sure that 645D is about to come out next year, would Pentax come out with what seems like a replacement of K20D and call it a flag-ship and pro-model? In order for them to do that, they need a bigger sensor, be it full or not. So, between k200d replacement and 645D, there will be another model,
k30d. You might as well take K-7 out of the mix. K-7 is like a limited lens series, a line-up on its own accord.

05-28-2009, 11:12 PM   #20
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The K-7 was to be called the K30D. Pentax has changed their naming scheme yet again.

According to JCPentax, there will not be a K30D.

I would expect the K200D replacement to be a "reduced" K-7.

Something like:

Pentamirror
1/4000
Video maybe (I think it needs video to be competative, but I expect Pentax to drop it)
single e-dial
sealed

Take a K20D and reduce it the same way the K200D was derived from a K10D.
05-28-2009, 11:59 PM   #21
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Since this is all 100% speculation..I will toss my .02 in the hat.

If in theory the K-7 "replaces" the K20D at the top of the list on Pentax's food chain (not including the 645D since it's not been given an official release date, nor will it be a main stream consumer camera)....ad rumour has it that there will be yet another body released by Pentax this year (which I find doubtful), what feature would it have to have to be considered better than what is currently in the lineup (for sales generation), or different from that of the K-7 in order to not render that body obsolete? I know what some of you are thinking...full frame. I am not a Pentax employee and have no insider info, but all signs point to that not happening any time soon.
Again, this is speculation as I have seen no press release from Pentax stating A) the K20D is be retired. B) The K-7 is replacing the K20D. C)There is something called a K30D or any other name model coming along this year other than the K-7....etc.

The way it seems to be sitting by later this year, Pentax will have four main models in it's DSLR arsenal (K-m, K200D, K20D, K-7), and those are very good consumer choices in my opinion. If anything, perhaps Pentax will lend some of its improved technology of the K-7 into something a little more traditional (no video, etc) body like the K200D and K20D, just with more advanced features.

I am rambling.

Jason
05-29-2009, 05:37 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
The way it seems to be sitting by later this year, Pentax will have four main models in it's DSLR arsenal (K-m, K200D, K20D, K-7), and those are very good consumer choices in my opinion. If anything, perhaps Pentax will lend some of its improved technology of the K-7 into something a little more traditional (no video, etc) body like the K200D and K20D, just with more advanced features.

Jason

The K20D will not be in that line-up. A new camera replacing both the K20D and the K200D will be release before the end of the year. My guess is that this will most lilkely be a camera with K20D specifications + video mode in a K-m(K2000D) style body but with two dials. I suspect Pentax have made the last production run of the K20D.

So the line-up next year would most likely be:

K-m
K?
K7
645 Digital

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 05-29-2009 at 06:21 AM.
05-29-2009, 06:31 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
but the problem is that K-7 (no production units yet, right ?) will be competing against D400, not against the camera released in ... well, back in 2007
So? There will always be new cameras released.
You see, the problem with the D400 is that it will compete with the replacement model of the K-7, and I frankly can't see how D400 will win against the K-7 replacement. The K-7 replacement simply will hmm... kick butts so to speak.

In the meantime, the K-7 will do a very swell job of competing with the D400 when (if) it arrives. No problem.

05-29-2009, 06:38 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
If in theory the K-7 "replaces" the K20D at the top of the list on Pentax's food chain (not including the 645D since it's not been given an official release date, nor will it be a main stream consumer camera)....ad rumour has it that there will be yet another body released by Pentax this year (which I find doubtful), what feature would it have to have to be considered better than what is currently in the lineup (for sales generation), or different from that of the K-7 in order to not render that body obsolete?
Last year, Hoya said in their quarterly report that for 2009 their aim is three new DSLR's, one which would be an update to an existing model. The niche that the Pentax brand would concentrate upon was compact and robust DSLR's with weather sealing.

Now we can see that the K-m white edition was the update to an existing model.
We have had the K-7 announced.
This means that there is one body left to be announced this year.
Not a rumour, but official information.

It will be a K-7 junior. A stripped down version of the K-7 in a similar compact design. More advanced than the K20D (new sensor and AF improvements from the K-7) but without the advanced exposure modes of the K20D, instead it will have a simpler and more consumer friendly user interface with automatic picture modes and such things.

QuoteQuote:
Again, this is speculation as I have seen no press release from Pentax stating A) the K20D is be retired. B) The K-7 is replacing the K20D. C)There is something called a K30D or any other name model coming along this year other than the K-7....etc.
Pentax has confirmed that the K20D will still be made for some time.
The K-7 is not replacing the K20D, it aims higher.
There won't be a K30D, this is official.

QuoteQuote:
The way it seems to be sitting by later this year, Pentax will have four main models in it's DSLR arsenal (K-m, K200D, K20D, K-7), and those are very good consumer choices in my opinion.
The K200D is no longer in the DSLR arsenal, since it was discontinued late last year. Yes, the K200D hasn't been made for months. So the current lineup is K-m, K20D and K-7. K20D is the current model in-between the K-m and K-7. When the new middle model is announced later this year, the K20D will be discontinued.
05-29-2009, 06:49 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
It will be a K-7 junior. A stripped down version of the K-7 in a similar compact design. .
I doubt it. I believe it will be a beefed up K-m....
05-29-2009, 07:23 AM   #26
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Well is the glass half full or half empty?
Much of the technology advancements will be taken from the K-7, but already the K-7 can of course be said to be a beefed up version of the K-m - just look at the control layout. It is clearly inspired by K-m:
05-29-2009, 08:28 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
but the problem is that K-7 (no production units yet, right ?) will be competing against D400, not against the camera released in ... well, back in 2007

Spec-wise, I think the K-7 will sit just slightly below the D400. But given that the D400 will probably cost 40-50% more, I don't really think you can say that they'll be competing models, at least in a marketing sense...

I think the real K-7 competitors will be Nikon D90, Canon 50D and Olympus E-30. And given that it's cheaper and considerably better specced than all of them, I think that put's Pentax in a very nice place indeed In regard to the Oly especially, there's been quite alot of talk on the 4/3rds forums saying that the K-7 is the camera the E-30 should've been...
05-29-2009, 09:29 AM   #28
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The K-7 is actually more expensive than Canon 50D, Nikon D90 and Olympus E-30, but yes it is better specified than any of them - with higher more professional build quality and 100% viewfinder. It simply is an Olympus E-3 and Nikon D300 competitior. As for D400 - it is not released yet, too early to say what it offers but since the K-7 already gives more than the D300 at a lower price, it still has a good chance to stand the match against the D400.
05-29-2009, 11:59 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
So? There will always be new cameras released.
You see, the problem with the D400 is that it will compete with the replacement model of the K-7, and I frankly can't see how D400 will win against the K-7 replacement. The K-7 replacement simply will hmm... kick butts so to speak.

In the meantime, the K-7 will do a very swell job of competing with the D400 when (if) it arrives. No problem.
well it depends how soon D400 will arrive and what will be there... K-7 still can't beat D300 which is 2 years old camera on many parameters... and BTW D300 was a bigger change from D200 than K-7 is from K20D (let us put a marketing mantra about K-7 not being a replacement for K20D aside - it is a replacement as a top of the line APS-C camera from Pentax, period).
05-29-2009, 12:07 PM   #30
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The K-7 is the "true" rival to the EOS 50D, D300, E-3 and Sony's replacement for the A700.

The K20D was never a rival to the above, more like a niche above the 40D, D90, E-30 and A350/A380.

The K20D was, in my opinion, a halfway house camera (not a bad thing - I love mine), whilst the Hoya takeover was taking place, take some aspects of the already in R&D K-7, put it in the K10D body to tide you over. Canon have done the same with the 5D mk2, get something on the market whilst develop a true replacement.

Now Pentax is at the crossroads. The K20D is still a stunning camera, yet does not have the build or features of the K-7.

If Pentax have the capacity (and I don't see why not?) then then could have a range of 4 APS-C cameras to suit the market

K-m for entry level (ala Nikon D60, EOS 1000D, E-420, A230)
K200D (and replacement) for more advanced, with sealing, better AF focal points sensor (ala 450D/500D, E-520, A330/A80)
K20D (and replacement) like the top line K-7 but with plastic body, still sealed, better sensor and more "pro like" than the K200D, (ala 40D(I know its magnesium), D90, E-30)
K-7 for the top APS-C spec to rival, and does, the D300, 50D, E-3.

Mind you it does depend on capacity.

In the meantime I cannot see Pentax stopping the K20D in the next 8-12 months.

Last edited by offertonhatter; 05-29-2009 at 12:09 PM. Reason: spelling
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