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06-01-2009, 11:13 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
let's get down to the most basic facts here.

K-7 is the hottest pre-ordered dSLR commodity.
K-7 has made lots of non-Pentax photo enthusiasts to jump ship and abandon their preferred dSLR brand.
K-7 is responsible for influencing people to join this forum.
K-7 beat the hell out of the D300 that it made their owners consider on buying the K-7 which you consider as a subpar performer behind the D300.

I guess that the K-7 sucks so bad, that you didn't notice these facts. may I suggest that you to have your lens checked coz they maybe suffering from abrasions.


Truly Yours,

EX-NIKON shooter
all these are true things (except your note about my lenses of course), however Nikon still can teach Samsung and Pentax a thing or two about sensors and surrounding electronics...

06-01-2009, 11:17 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Pentax approach which gives me the choice
Analysis: K-7 DNG raw Beta 0.2... [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
06-01-2009, 11:33 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
don't be a fanboy - it is a fact
Mr, don't be a fanboy - it is not a fact.
The AF-C in beta K-7's are already heavy improved over AF-C in the K20D.
And we still doesn't have the final production version here yet with 1.0 of the firmware.

You are making assumptions from how the K20D behaves, not the K-7.
The K-7 is not the K20D. Do you understand this?

QuoteQuote:
I did not make it longer - it was one line that D300 has 12 or 14bit raw on demand...
With today's monitors and Adobe RGB, 14 bit is not needed.

QuoteQuote:
on your line about having an option to shoot raw in either PEF or DNG... and to have 14bit raw is way better than to have a DNG which you can get from NEF using a free adobe converter if you really need that
With the K-7, the RAW-converter is built in and it is a darn good one too.

QuoteQuote:
fact - measure it... Pentax still has longer shatter lag
Then tell me the shutter lag of the firmware 1.0 production K-7 since you obviously has access to unofficial information.

QuoteQuote:
apparently all those features are important to you, but I'd trade all of them for a flash system which will be on par w/ Nikon
You mean you have tried and tested the new flash system in the K-7 and made comparision to Nikon? Then please show us the result.

QuoteQuote:
still D300 has an edge here, it is like K-7 that can read aperture from pre "A" lenses...
Pentax lenses from 1982 and newer works in all exposure modes in the K-7.
You can't say that with Nikon lenses from 1982 on the D300 and you claim that Nikon is better.

QuoteQuote:
you forgot better ISO and DR, better support for AF from AE sensor, etc...
Then please show the results of your measurements in those areas with a K-7 production firmware 1.0.
06-01-2009, 11:36 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
The only bs here is your grassroot marketing.
It is not me writing the bs, it is you.

QuoteQuote:
of course K7 has better features than K20D - but those things did not make K-7 a new tier of Pentax cameras, it is still continuation of the same tier that K20D was representing at launch...
So?

QuoteQuote:
I guess you had a chance to read the recent posting from GordonBGood @ DPReview...
Ok, so where did he compare with the Nikon D300? I can't see that he did that.
And do note that he was commenting on an unfinished product.

QuoteQuote:
К-7 has old AF system, but w/ improved algorithms that help w/ AF-S and extra sensor detecting light spectrum/color temperature that helps w/ BF/FF problems but it has nothing that can match what D300 has to track moving targets (AF-C).
Then provide evidence to support your claims that the D300 has faster AF-C and better tracking ability than the K-7. I want to see the images! And your measured test results from a production K-7 with firmare 1.0.

06-01-2009, 11:38 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
still does not help AF-C where you need (1) more points and (2) smaller area per point... and as Nikon has (3) help from AE RGB sensor that helps w/ tracking of the moving target between focus points.
You have obviously read the sales materials from Nikon.

QuoteQuote:
AF-S probably will be better... I hope... AF-C still will not match D300
Then please provide your test results from a K-7 with production firmware 1.0.

QuoteQuote:
again I can recommend you to reread the recent posting from GordonBGood @ DPReview... readout is faster (like Sony 10Mp sensors - 2 channels for K10D and junior Nikons, 4 channels for D200), noise is not better.
I am probably blind, but unlikely you I could not find the comparision K-7 with the Nikon D300. Where is it in his material? I can see that he is talking about the K20D in this respect, but the K-7 is not K20D and they don't use the same sensor. Also note what he writes about the Canon 50D with what he believes might be a faulty sensor or not a good sample of the sensor, and this was a production camera. You see, K-7 is still not read yet, the sensor is still in beta testing stage and it has - which is natural for pre-production - a high degree of sample varation. Because of this, it is not fair to compare beta K-7 with production cameras. K-7 is in testing stage for the factory to trim it to optimum performance. You only show your ignorance and lack of knowledge by doing judgements of unfinished products.

Last edited by RMabo; 06-01-2009 at 12:03 PM.
06-01-2009, 11:47 AM   #81
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I heard Pentax was going to discontinue the K1000 from the guy that sweeps up the floor at the local Ritz.
06-01-2009, 11:47 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
"claimed" by marketing and delivered by NR that you can't switch off...
But you can switch NR off on the K-7.

QuoteQuote:
and how exactly it helps AF system w/ tracking ?
Ok, now I understand it. Your claims are just theoretical.


QuoteQuote:
did I miss anything ? K-7 has lossy compression in RAW ?
Yes, DNG's are lossy compressed.

QuoteQuote:
I mean D300 has lag less that K-7, do not play a blonde... oops, you are from Sweden though
Then provide your measurements of the shutter lag of the K-7 with production firmware 1.0. Already the beta 0.2 and 0.3 were faster than the K20D. But since you obviously has acccess to K-7 production firmware for testing against a D300, I expect to see your test results.

QuoteQuote:
nowhere near Nikon flash system...
Then provide your measurements of the new flash system in the K-7 with production firmware 1.0 and your comparisions with Nikon.

QuoteQuote:
yes, however Photoshop+HDR plugins or standalone HDR programs has so much more... of course, some people don't have that, but I doubt that people who buy D300 don't have access to proper postprocessing tools
With Pentax, simple features are accessed to all photographers. In this, Pentax is more democratic than Nikon.

QuoteQuote:
Nikon lenses have chips too...
With MTF charts tested individually for each lens?
Pentax has had this since 1993, and Pentax had lenses that send distance info to the cameras metering system several years before Nikon invented the 'D' on their lenses.

QuoteQuote:
K-7 itself (raw converter in its firmware) does correction only for JPEG
The data is saved with the RAW file, it is even included in the DNG's, so a stand alone RAW-converter that are able to read this data can use this to make distorsion and lateral CA correction. The new PhotoLab software that ships with the K-7 already does this, yes it reads the RAW-file and makes correction from the lens data saved in the RAW file.

QuoteQuote:
(and as you probably know - there are many people who only do RAW), so you still need to use a raw converter off camera to deal w/ RAW files and there D300 has an advantage by having a good DxO support...
Pentax lenses are measured individually at the factory and the MTF measurements are then coded in the lens for each individual sample, and this is read by the camera and saved together with the RAW-file and then read by the PhotoLab software.

DxO only has general figures. With Pentax, it is all there in the lenses. You don't need to rely on third party support.
06-01-2009, 07:52 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Pentax has said that a successor to the K20D will not come. The K-7 is not a direct replacement, it is a "new concept". The coming K200D replacement, that I call K-7 junior (could very well be called K-70 by Pentax) comes later this year.

So, the setup will be - from top to bottom:
K-7 -- "K-70" -- K-m

Three cameras. There isn't any room for an additional camera, above the "K-70" (or whatever it will be called) and below the K-7.

Pentax has said, through Mr John C from Pentax US, that the K20D will still be offered for some time. K200D is discontinued, but the K20D is still available. My bet is that availability drops when the new "K-70" / "K-7 junior" comes later this year.

I expect the new budget model of the K-7 to have 3.5 fps, 92% pentamirror, 1/4000 shutter, same 14.6Mp sensor for live view and video recording, plastic outer shell over a steel chassi, one control wheel instead of two (so a simpler version of Hyper-modes), automatic picture modes. I hope they will retain automatic level function, but we'll have to wait and see...
Sound reasonable and seems to be supported by the the article in the British mag, Amature Photo: Pentax confirms plan for K20D camera news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums

06-02-2009, 12:49 AM   #84
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About this Nikon D300 is better blah-blah - here is a report from Mr Roberts about the enhanced metering system in the K-7, and it also shows that the dynamic range (DR) of the sensor in the K-7 is improved compared to the sensor in the K20D.

K-7 impressions: Metering and DR: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

It is simply not fair to say that the K-7 is inferior to the D300 based upon the performance of the K20D. The K-7 has a new sensor.
06-02-2009, 12:50 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
Yes, it has been confirmed by Mr John C of Pentax Imaging USA that the K20D will continue to be available for some time, and that the K-7 is not a direct replacement for it. K20D fills up the gap between the K-7 and the K-m.
06-02-2009, 08:03 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote

Pentax lenses from 1982 and newer works in all exposure modes in the K-7.
You can't say that with Nikon lenses from 1982 on the D300 and you claim that Nikon is better.

Sorry? I was under the impression that they only worked in M???
06-02-2009, 09:53 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by nickthetasmaniac Quote
Sorry? I was under the impression that they only worked in M???
No, the A lenses was introduced in 1982 and they work in all exposure modes on a K-7 or any other Pentax DSLR. Even multisegment metering and P-TTL flash works. So with manual focus lenses from 1982 and onwards, you have full functionality - except for autofocus - with Pentax DSLR's.

Earlier K-mount lenses (1975 - 1982) are best used with the camera in the M-mode.
06-02-2009, 12:43 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
No, the A lenses was introduced in 1982 and they work in all exposure modes on a K-7 or any other Pentax DSLR. Even multisegment metering and P-TTL flash works. So with manual focus lenses from 1982 and onwards, you have full functionality - except for autofocus - with Pentax DSLR's.

Earlier K-mount lenses (1975 - 1982) are best used with the camera in the M-mode.
There is another example. I keep waiting for body based AF functionality for my A lenses, and Pentax refuses to respond to this need. What is their problem?
06-02-2009, 01:19 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
What you write is completely bs.
The K-7 does aim higher than the K20D, with 100% viewfinder and 1/8000 shutter and faster continous shooting as examples of this. the K20D had 95% viewfinder and 1/4000 shutter.

What tests have you read that states that Nikon D300 is better at high ISO and has better AF-C than Pentax K-7? The K-7 has new sensor and new autofocus, don't judge the K-7 performance by the performance of the K20D.

You're trolling
I think he meant "the same" as the K20D as in the relative market position. In his mind, the K20d was just behind the D300 as to features, but less expensive. The K-7 matches or exceeds the D300 when the K-7 comes out in late July, but in August or Sept. IF the D400 comes out, perhaps the K-7 again will be just behind the D400 and a bit less money. I AM NOT AGREEING with this speculation because it is impossible to know. I am saying that this is the thought process of a typical pessimist that this person seems to be.

Roland, I admire your patience and positive attitude relative to Pentax. Thanks for all the great information. Please keep it up.

- Tom
06-02-2009, 05:05 PM   #90
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QuoteQuote:
Pentax insists that its K7 digital SLR will not replace its existing K20D camera, despite a Japanese press report to the contrary.

The 29 May issue of Tokyo-based photographic trade publication Pen News Weekly reports that the K7 will replace the current K20D DSLR.

But a spokeswoman for Pentax's UK office this morning insisted this is not the case, telling us: 'The K7 is not replacing the K20D.'
Pentax confirms plan for K20D camera news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums
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