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06-04-2009, 05:55 AM   #61
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Not everyone wants EVIL. I tried the GH1 and although the focusing speed in live view is very impressive, the EVF most deffinetley was not. I also think its too big, not much smaller than olympus e420 for example.

I am interested in micro 4/3 as a replacement for my P&S and a better alternative to the Sigma DP1/DP2. And it seems olympus's offering will be more suitable. Although there are rumors panasonic are planning to make a small one too.

A really small micro 4/3 will sell like hotcakes because of all the DSLR owners looking for a pocket cam but not finding any that satisfies their quality expectations. The ability to adapt rangefinder lenses from voigtlander and leica is another very attractive feature of those cameras.

The gh1 is a video centered version of the g1. If I put a lot of emphasis on video I would rather get a Canon 5D mark II as the video quality of that cam seems amazingly good compared to the current alternatives.

06-04-2009, 08:14 AM   #62
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HD Dslr weight vs weight vs weight

Body Only:

5D Mark II 810g

K-7 649g

GH1 385g


Now that everyone is introducing HD Dslrs I'd like to own just one with this feature, not one in every mount. I'm not sure I'll decide in 2009 as my dslrs are fine. I keep reading how small K-7 is. 5D Mark II is full frame and only weighs 159 grams more than aps-c K-7 whereas GH1 is less than 1/2 what 5D Mark II weighs & it has articulated viewscreen.

Nikon is off my radar as I'll only consider a D700 type body with HD and articulated screen which they do not offer yet. So I may wait to 2010 or even 2011 to jump on the new HD Dslr technology.

I find GH1 most appealing as I can adapt about every lens I own, however last year the wife & I only used a pair of 5D on our excursions which I bought new in 2008 along with several 2008 eos lenses. Simplicity with only one system between us to share has its advantages. This year we've added D700 and 14-24mm 2.8 & a 1981 era nikon 8mm circular fisheye. Bringing Pentax back into top two postions in my kit becomes even more complicated now as I really like both canon & nikon full frames. Adding GH1 is really the same as it too creates far more complications and extra gear to carry just to add HD.

Anyone else notice the recent price increases on Pentax lenses at B&H ? With all the buzz around K-7 I thought I'd price a couple DA lenses and some are up $100 a piece now over past 45 days. I guess the visa card rebate included in K-7 boxes will then drop a few lenses back to May 2009 prices, but not the entire lineup.


I agree with you, if I want a HD Dslr in 2009 then the 5D Mark II is the best choice due to glass I already own & the fact they offer 30fps in 1080 recording. If it had an articulated viewscreen I would have already bought one and streamlined my equiptment brands. Since they did not offer articulated viewscreen , also like Pentax, I'll sit on the sidelines and watch all the streaming video produced by users/owners over next few months, maybe next couple years.







QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
Not everyone wants EVIL. I tried the GH1 and although the focusing speed in live view is very impressive, the EVF most deffinetley was not. I also think its too big, not much smaller than olympus e420 for example.

I am interested in micro 4/3 as a replacement for my P&S and a better alternative to the Sigma DP1/DP2. And it seems olympus's offering will be more suitable. Although there are rumors panasonic are planning to make a small one too.

A really small micro 4/3 will sell like hotcakes because of all the DSLR owners looking for a pocket cam but not finding any that satisfies their quality expectations. The ability to adapt rangefinder lenses from voigtlander and leica is another very attractive feature of those cameras.

The gh1 is a video centered version of the g1. If I put a lot of emphasis on video I would rather get a Canon 5D mark II as the video quality of that cam seems amazingly good compared to the current alternatives.

Last edited by Samsungian; 06-04-2009 at 10:28 AM.
06-04-2009, 10:06 AM   #63
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I am not very impressed with the video quality of the gh1, except for the effect of using higher fps and slowing it down for effect. the 5d video quality is amazing.

looking forward to see what olympus' little cam will be like.

with the voigtlander adapter u can use the 50mm f1.1 and get a 100mm f1.1 lens now that would be something! hopefully the lcd on the cam will be the 920 pixel type with zoom for manual focus. i found manual focus worked quite well on the d3's live view using the same screen.
06-04-2009, 10:21 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
HD Dslr weight vs weight vs weight
Body Only:
5D Mark II 810g
K-7 649g
GH1 385g
...whereas GH1 is less than 1/2 what 5D Mark II weighs & it has articulated viewscreen.
But GH1 is NOT a DSLR! It's an EVIL! And that's why it can be so light.
No mirror, no prism, and in a much thinner chassis.
So there is just no comparison as far as the weight is concerned between a DSLR and an EVIL.

OTOH, when HD comes to an entry level camera, with penta mirror instead of prism, and take out the weather sealing, you can bring the weight of the DSLR much lower; but it still won't match the EVIL.

06-04-2009, 10:35 AM   #65
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I hear you GH1 is not a "dslr" but B&H thinks it is:

A Simple B&H search of B&H Dslrs includes both G1 and GH1



SLR Digital Cameras | B&H Photo Video



QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
But GH1 is NOT a DSLR! It's an EVIL! And that's why it can be so light.
No mirror, no prism, and in a much thinner chassis.
So there is just no comparison as far as the weight is concerned between a DSLR and an EVIL.

OTOH, when HD comes to an entry level camera, with penta mirror instead of prism, and take out the weather sealing, you can bring the weight of the DSLR much lower; but it still won't match the EVIL.
06-04-2009, 10:40 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
A Simple B&H search of B&H Dslrs includes both G1 and GH1



SLR Digital Cameras | B&H Photo Video
Well since they dont have a seperate evil catagory which would have just the two pana cameras anyway, it makes more sense to group it with the slrs than with the compacts
06-04-2009, 10:41 AM   #67
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I don't have a store that carries GH1 or G1 locally to testdrive,

,well that said I don't have a store locally that carrys Pentax either...


Yeah, I think I've fallen inlove with the idea of using lots of abondoned mount/misfit mount lenses, some I own, on GH1. I'm going to take a break from wanting any new camera toys the rest of this year.

Anyways I came across this video forum recently. A bunch of people making video clips with their 5D Mark II, incase you haven't seen it:


cinema5D.com • The forum for dslr filmmakers



QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
I am not very impressed with the video quality of the gh1, except for the effect of using higher fps and slowing it down for effect. the 5d video quality is amazing.

looking forward to see what olympus' little cam will be like.

with the voigtlander adapter u can use the 50mm f1.1 and get a 100mm f1.1 lens now that would be something! hopefully the lcd on the cam will be the 920 pixel type with zoom for manual focus. i found manual focus worked quite well on the d3's live view using the same screen.
06-04-2009, 10:52 AM   #68
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I have been checking out that forum for general video tips like sound, mics, software etc

06-04-2009, 01:38 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Body Only:

5D Mark II 810g

K-7 649g

GH1 385g
How I read it:
Affordable FF camera, with good build quality: 810g
Semipro APS-C camera, magnesium alloy with stainless steel chassis, fully weather-sealed: 649g
Plastic m4/3 digicam: 385g
Please, try to compare apples to apples.
06-04-2009, 06:28 PM   #70
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Lets drill down Kunzie, 5D Mark II is built on a magnesium body and

and they've done this for years on alot of their dslrs. As far as weather resistance goes, I pay $16 a month for zero deductable, all hazards insurance on $20,000 worth of gear. I got a problem, stolen, dropped, drowned, I get a check for what my receipt says I paid, no depreciation.


What do you do when K-7 or K20D fails in water without insurance rider? Sounds like a total loss to me. Anyways Oly E3 has been tested by being submerged in water while on and passed 2 of 3 times. Will Pentax do this to prove their water resistance? Why aren't Pentax dslr rated for "ingress water protection"? There are standards that prove electronics are actually water proof. Up till now I've yet to see pentax include this certified water rating in their dslr and lens specs.

Insurance is cheap, my two 5D, my D700 and my K20D and lenses are covered for all perils.

Heres some 5D mark II specs that include magnesium body. Its about time Pentax added $5 worth of magnesium to their $1,300 dslrs , don't you think?


The Canon EOS 5D Mark II improves upon the EOS 5D by increasing the resolution by about 40% to 21.1 Megapixels and adds a Live View feature that allows users to preview shots on the cameras High resolution 3.0" LCD display. It even incorporates the ability to record full motion HD Video with sound, so you can capture the action as well as superb images.

The cameras 21.1MP, full frame 35mm-format (24x36mm) CMOS sensor captures image files with incredible image quality and color accuracy, and can capture JPEG, RAW and RAW+JPEG files. The camera also incorporates Canon's acclaimed DIGIC 4 imaging processor that works in concert with a high-speed DDR-SDRAM buffer to ensure quick performance and fast image processing times. Performance enhancements enabled by the DIGIC 4 processor include an incredibly fast full-resolution frame rate of up to 3.9 fps, improved battery life, noticeably improved image quality at all ISO sensitivities, fast start-up and reaction times, and improved noise suppression at ISO sensitivities ranging from ISO 100 to ISO 6400, plus the cameras sensitivity is further expandable to a range of ISO 50 to ISO 25600.

The Canon EOS 5D Mark II incorporates a high-fidelity (920,000 dot) 3" LCD screen and includes a 'Live View' feature that permits the user to frame their shots on the LCD display, and adds framing functions that are not possible with a traditional SLR viewfinder including the ability to zoom in and navigate the preview image to ensure proper focus, and a grid overlay to assist in proper composition. The Live View focusing system also enables focus modes such as Quick mode, Live mode and Face Detection Live mode. Furthermore, the Live View Feature enables HD video recording that can capture true HD-quality (1080p) video at a frame rate of 30 fps with Face Detection and sound.

The magnesium-alloy chassis of the EOS 5D Mark II ensures the durability of the camera so users can take it on safari or to a press junket and be assured that the camera can take it. In addition the camera body incorporates extensive dust and weatherproofing features including seals and gaskets where body panels and/or camera controls meet. To further keep the imaging sensor free from dust, Canon's EOS Integrated Cleaning System uses ultrasonic vibrations to shake dust particles off of the sensor's low-pass filter each time you power up (or manually when needed); this ensures that your images will be spot free and reduces time needed for image retouching.

Other professional quality features found on the Canon EOS 5D Mark II include 14-bit A/D conversion, a bright viewfinder (with 98% image coverage), Auto Light Optimizer, Lens Peripheral Illumination Correction, 9-point AF plus 6-point assist AF, 25 Custom Functions with 71 settings, and 5 metering modes (35-Zone EV, 8% Partial Spot, 3.5% Spot, Center-Weighted, and Pre-Flash E-TTL II). Altogether, the Canon EOS 5D Mark II has been designed to serve the needs and interests of serious enthusiasts as well as professional photographers who are in pursuit of the perfect image.


QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
How I read it:
Affordable FF camera, with good build quality: 810g
Semipro APS-C camera, magnesium alloy with stainless steel chassis, fully weather-sealed: 649g
Plastic m4/3 digicam: 385g
Please, try to compare apples to apples.
06-04-2009, 06:42 PM   #71
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Samsungian, you forgot one spec...price!

I don't doubt that the Canon 5D mark whatever is a wonderful camera. I don't doubt that it has better specs (for the most part) than the K-7. I would expect it to. It costs at least TWICE AS MUCH!!!
I can spend $2700 and get the 5D. On the other hand I could spend the same amount and get: 1 K-7; 1 K20D as a backup; and a few good lenses and an exterior flash. So if for some reason the K-7 dies, I can still keep shooting. I don't have to wait for my uberinsurance to re-imburse me.

NaCl(the 5D is a good camera, but expensive...and the IS lenses ain't cheap either)H2O
06-05-2009, 12:25 AM   #72
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Samsungian, why do you feel the need to "defend" the 5DMkII? Just because I've said "good build quality"? Is that something bad?
Sorry I didn't specifficaly mentioned the 5D has a magnesium alloy chassis, I thought we all know that... my purpose was not to degrade the 5D, but to draw a clear line (built-wise) between K-7 (5D as well) and the plastic GH1.
Yet I'd rate the 5DMkII build quality somewhat lower; afaik the camera isn't fully weather sealed.
Few other things:
- you can have such an insurance. I can't, for any price.
- show me one DSLR with certified water resistance. Trying to build a straw man, like "Pentax weather sealing is not certified, thus is worse than other brands" - ignoring that all the other DSLRs, including the mighty 1DsMkIII (or the E3, for that matter), don't have such ratings?
- next, follows something like a Canon marketing speech. Is this necessary? We all know what a wonderful camera is, that 5D.
Many of those features are also offered by the K-7, btw. It's not that - feature wise - the 5D MkII is in another league; it's advantage is mainly that of a FF camera.
06-05-2009, 06:13 AM   #73
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Sorry, it read like 5DII was not magnesium also

Thats a bummer you cannot insure gear in your part of the world. Its so cheap to do here.

You're correct no dslr maker subjects their dslr to "ingress water protection" ratings. I see alot of claims of "weathersealing", "water resistence", "waterproof". However I've also read people who have wet their K10D and K20D too much and send it for repairs find out, they are considered a total loss & not repairable. So use at your own risk or get some good insurance to cover all perils.


That said I do feel K-7 is an amazing camera. A game changer for Pentax. No one will question Pentax viability as a company after its released... in a couple weeks, a month or August? I may eventually get one or not. I'm in the minority I guess of owners who like their K20D. No banding issues, fine iso 1600 captures, happy with admission price.


I've been obsessed with reading about HD Dslrs and I think its best for me to take a year or two off from buying any bodies with HD until the technology camera makers are willing to include matures. Had Pentax included an articulated viewscreen on K-7, or had Canon included an articulated viewscreen on 5D Mark II, I likely would bought the canon already or pre ordered K-7. For HD I really see this movable screen as mandantory on HD Dslr for better ergonomics. Well mandantory for me that GH1 at the moment tops my wantlist of HD interchangable lens camera that shoots HD. Last week I bought a variety of lensmount adapters for micro 4/3 incase I impulse buy a GH1 when prices will likely drop around Christmas 2009.


QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Samsungian, why do you feel the need to "defend" the 5DMkII? Just because I've said "good build quality"? Is that something bad?
Sorry I didn't specifficaly mentioned the 5D has a magnesium alloy chassis, I thought we all know that... my purpose was not to degrade the 5D, but to draw a clear line (built-wise) between K-7 (5D as well) and the plastic GH1.
Yet I'd rate the 5DMkII build quality somewhat lower; afaik the camera isn't fully weather sealed.
Few other things:
- you can have such an insurance. I can't, for any price.
- show me one DSLR with certified water resistance. Trying to build a straw man, like "Pentax weather sealing is not certified, thus is worse than other brands" - ignoring that all the other DSLRs, including the mighty 1DsMkIII (or the E3, for that matter), don't have such ratings?
- next, follows something like a Canon marketing speech. Is this necessary? We all know what a wonderful camera is, that 5D.
Many of those features are also offered by the K-7, btw. It's not that - feature wise - the 5D MkII is in another league; it's advantage is mainly that of a FF camera.
06-05-2009, 08:26 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
However I've also read people who have wet their K10D and K20D too much and send it for repairs find out, they are considered a total loss & not repairable. So use at your own risk or get some good insurance to cover all perils.
Give links please, otherwise whe could think you're trolling.
06-05-2009, 11:24 AM   #75
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Thibs, I'll dig up the two references I remember reading when it fits my schedule.

One was K10D & other was K20D sent to pentax usa and denied any service:

paid for or otherwise due to water damage.


Both cameras from two owners were considered "a total loss, beyond repair".


In the meantime, prove to me "with links" that pentax does routinely repair water damaged dslrs for free or just the $19.95 handling fee under warranty, please?

Shouldn't Pentax back their waterproof claims with a rock solid guarantee? Or is more like

"use it in rain & if it fails its your loss & not ours?"




Me? I won't use K20D in rain even though I got insurance to cover perils. Well & I don't own weather sealed lenses.

Thibs, do you routinely use your weathersealed pentax gear in a downpour? spill wine on it? use it while running tap water on it in your sink? Hows that worked out for you?




QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Give links please, otherwise whe could think you're trolling.
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