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07-03-2009, 09:52 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
After much long discussion, including multiple topics on this forum, the answer that has turned up is, consistently, NO.

Higher pixel density (paired with good sensor design) only brings image quality benefits. The barriers are manufacturing costs and memory space. These problems are, as always rapidly diminishing.

Higher pixel densities will continue to roll off the lines, however, ~12mp is all most users could really need or want, so I expect that while some camera lines will keep increasing in resolution, other lines will probably stick around this number for a while.
It's easy to put 20-30 MP sensor in APS-C sensor. BUT!!!
The BIGGEST problem of higher MP at APS-C, for example, is diffraction.
The SECOND problem of smaller pixels = worse colours and contrast.

It's axioms. 14-15 MP is reasonable limit.

Of course, you can put 20 MP, remove AA filter and will get razor sharp picture with good lenses. But rather noisy at all ISO.

07-04-2009, 04:42 PM   #47
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They are bringing back 35mm Film
07-04-2009, 05:27 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bunny Gear Quote
It's easy to put 20-30 MP sensor in APS-C sensor. BUT!!!
The BIGGEST problem of higher MP at APS-C, for example, is diffraction.
The SECOND problem of smaller pixels = worse colours and contrast.

It's axioms. 14-15 MP is reasonable limit.

Of course, you can put 20 MP, remove AA filter and will get razor sharp picture with good lenses. But rather noisy at all ISO.
I have to question the diffraction problem. I used to shoot a K10D beside an Panasonic FZ50. The Fz50 has a sensor 10x smaller than the K10D. But for details you could barely distinguish between the two 10MP cameras. An APS-C camera with the FZ50 pixel density would have about 100MP. So IMHO there is still a lot of headroom for MP grow for APS-C sensors. Overall color and noise will not be worse but you'll be able to distinguish more easily the degradation that occurs when you shoot at higher ISO than the base. You'll see more easily the weaknesses of a lens or the effects of diffraction but overall you'll get a much better picture.
07-05-2009, 03:39 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bunny Gear Quote
It's easy to put 20-30 MP sensor in APS-C sensor. BUT!!!
The BIGGEST problem of higher MP at APS-C, for example, is diffraction.
The SECOND problem of smaller pixels = worse colours and contrast.

It's axioms. 14-15 MP is reasonable limit.

Of course, you can put 20 MP, remove AA filter and will get razor sharp picture with good lenses. But rather noisy at all ISO.
I would think the way things are going Pentax would come out with a ~15+mp sensor in the next 12+ months, but incorporate new manufacturing techniques to increase resolution while decreasing noise and improving dynamic range (like they did on the K-7).

Very shortly, if not almost now the FF thing is a moot point. Once you have enough MP and resolution to make a poster sized print, who in the H*ll wants to carry a camera the size of a bass drum around !

I want a very high quality SMALL camera and lens system. Even though I have the K20D, that camera was on the verge of being to big IMHO.

I love the size of the K200D :-), which the K-7 is close to.


wll

07-05-2009, 04:33 AM   #50
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I don't see any sense to put at APS-C sensor more than 15 MP.
I think that Pentax will launch 645D with 31+ MP this year (under USD10 000) and FF camera close to the beginning of 2011.
FF camera has more space to put MP.

I think Pentax will have 3 levels in the future.
645D system - till 60 MP
FF till 30 MP
APS-C till 15 MP (maybe add 0.5-1.5 MP )

I'm interested now - What sensor could we see in K-m/K200D replacement?

Samsung NX3 will carry 14.6 MP CMOS sensor with 4 fps. Maybe this one?
07-05-2009, 04:46 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by cooldude14es Quote
Some rumors I have heard lately:


- In September/October we will see a new camera K300D (the K200D replacement)

- 645D will arrive afterwards (no date)

- Finally, Pentax will fill the gap between the 645D and K-7 (a FF camera? no date, sorry, maybe in 2 years from now?)

Rumors, I know, but I want to think they will become true...
Two years FF, I hope so. I will need two years to save for it.
David
07-05-2009, 04:48 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
They are bringing back 35mm Film
Kodak E6 is dead. Long live E6

David
07-05-2009, 05:48 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bunny Gear Quote
It's easy to put 20-30 MP sensor in APS-C sensor. BUT!!!
The BIGGEST problem of higher MP at APS-C, for example, is diffraction.
The SECOND problem of smaller pixels = worse colours and contrast.

It's axioms. 14-15 MP is reasonable limit.

Of course, you can put 20 MP, remove AA filter and will get razor sharp picture with good lenses. But rather noisy at all ISO.
Regarding diffraction: diffraction is a property of the lens. This whole idea of "diffraction limitation" comes from the fact that with higher resolution sensors, you can see the softening effects of diffraction more easily than you could with a lower resolution sensor. There's the same amount of diffraction affecting a 6mp sensor at f14 as a 15mp sensor, it's just the 6mp sensor isn't high-res enough to show it. A well-implemented high-res sensor could be used in a camera that downsamples the sensor's resolution to fit the level of diffraction so that you don't waste pixels. At larger apertures the full resolution can be used.

Regarding the colors and contrast (and noise), yes, these will be worse at pixel level. Dpreview will jump all over it. However, that's largely irrelevant, because it's the quality per area of the image that really matters. With the noise, it's again a matter of the fact that you just can't see most of the noise (which is more a function of sensor area than pixel size) in lower-res sensors; it's still there, it just gets averaged out because each photosite is sampling a larger area. With a higher-res sensor, you'll see the noise more distinctly because it can resolve more, but in equal-sized prints the amount of noise will be indistinguishable. If anything, noisy prints from the higher-res sensor will look better because the noise will have a finer-grained appearance.

This has been discussed to death in the past, and when I say higher pixel density (as long as it's accompanied by good sensor design) only brings better image quality, I'm not just talking about resolution. I'm talking about the image as a whole.

07-05-2009, 08:40 AM   #54
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UNEP says

QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
They are bringing back 35mm Film
Noo, film is gone. Not because sensors are good but the chemicals are bad.
07-08-2010, 06:04 PM   #55
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The 18 MP FF from Kodak built in the Leica M9, would it be nice (at least possible) to see it on a Pentax FF ?
07-08-2010, 06:32 PM   #56
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Who's been issuing shovels to first time posters? Way to dig up a 1 year old post! ;-)

That would be nice to see.
07-08-2010, 07:01 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
Who's been issuing shovels to first time posters? Way to dig up a 1 year old post! ;-)
That would be nice to see.
That he did. Seeing as I'm here, I might as well comment.

I looked at a preview for the M9 and it looks pretty nice. Hopefully Pentax could get a bit more than 2fps out of the sensor though. I could see it working and given their Kodak 645D tech, who knows.... Sounds good to me.
07-08-2010, 08:30 PM   #58
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It's alive! It's alive! The zombie thread...it's alive!
07-08-2010, 08:46 PM   #59
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Works great for me! As long as it has a gloriously big viewfinder that absolutely nails manual focus and a new autofocus system that nails perfection each and every time

BTW, interesting reintroduction of a year old thread!


QuoteOriginally posted by vasek Quote
The 18 MP FF from Kodak built in the Leica M9, would it be nice (at least possible) to see it on a Pentax FF ?
07-09-2010, 12:24 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by vasek Quote
The 18 MP FF from Kodak built in the Leica M9, would it be nice (at least possible) to see it on a Pentax FF ?
No way, that CCD doesn't offer LiveView. On a marketing PoV this is suicide.
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