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06-04-2009, 12:33 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
you have a point there but would it make any logical sense if you call a D3 or anything under that type of camera as an entry level dSLR if this was all just a marketing term?
no. but then again, I never said they were way off base. I'm merely stating that they are in fact marketing terms, used to make sales. basically one shouldn't put too much if any weight on what people call it as a deciding factor in purchase. in fact, what its labeled shouldn't even be relevant. clearly you can decide for yourself what level something like a D3 is one compared to say a canon digital rebel, but again these are marketing terms. there is no formally accepted international camera 'class' designation board or anything like that. if someone were to buy a K-7 simply because it gets labeled 'pro' but even thinks about passing up the very same camera because it gets labeled as 'semi-pro' they are foolish and probably aren't very smart.

if Pentax were to change nothing other than cramming a 24x36mm sensor into a K-7, dollars to doughnuts it would get labeled as 'pro'.

06-04-2009, 12:37 PM   #17
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Go back a few decades and anything exposing less than 120 film was "amateur".
Go back a few more and anything less than a 4x5 view camera was "amateur".
Maybe a few from now we'll all stop worrying about the equipment so much and start focusing on what really does define "pro" ... the photographer.

Horse, meet stick.
06-04-2009, 12:38 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
Go back a few decades and anything exposing less than 120 film was "amateur".
Go back a few more and anything less than a 4x5 view camera was "amateur".
Maybe a few from now we'll all stop worrying about the equipment so much and start focusing on what really does define "pro" ... the photographer.

Horse, meet stick.
well said.
06-04-2009, 12:48 PM   #19
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i am only concern because I want pentax to succeed.

the more successful pentax is the more new lens and more updates I will get for my camera..

also I want more pros to be inntested in Pentax so pentax will have to give me a FF camera..

I just got in to the PPG for the first time today my CBA and LBA are on a new high level ... need to buy new toys soon

06-04-2009, 12:49 PM   #20
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i guess the best category name for PENTAX is....
"The best pound for pound DSLR out there" it's like jack of all trades.
06-04-2009, 12:49 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
Go back a few decades and anything exposing less than 120 film was "amateur".
Go back a few more and anything less than a 4x5 view camera was "amateur".
Maybe a few from now we'll all stop worrying about the equipment so much and start focusing on what really does define "pro" ... the photographer.

Horse, meet stick.
too bad, that was during the ancient period. before, it takes good eyes and hands inorder to become a pro. with today's gadget, that line between semi/pros and serious amateurs had closed that gap. the only one whose not defined as a pro/amateur are those who take crappy pictures. sad but true.
06-04-2009, 05:11 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
Maybe "Pro" equipment isn't made for amateurs, meaning no automatic mode stuff, no green mode and all.

Examples are the D3 and 1D. Only P, A/Av, S/Tv, M on those models.
Convenience features are very much "pro". That's why high frame rate is a pro feature. Only amateurs and a few very, very lucky professionals have the time to spend, whereas hobbyists don't have a paycheck to worry about. Pro means turning in consistently decent results over and over again with the minimal expenditure of time. Certainly the vast body of amateur photography is sub-par on average, and a lot of it is terrible. But it's also where you'll find the very best work.

see this thread....
06-04-2009, 06:21 PM   #23
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I seriously don't know what everybod is so upset about. This is a stellar review from one of the biggies in the online camera marketing world. And I would venture to guess that their B&M store in NYC probably is only 2nd to B&H in as a physical store in that market. So, big NYC photographic store with a HUGE online presence give a very glowing review of the K-7 and people are upset because they decide not to label it "pro"? Lets take apart the review shall we?
Opening blurb: They talk about how all the camera makers hype their cameras and features but it's just market-speak and then they say this
The Pentax K-7 is that rare bird—a camera with many features that may, if they work as promised, have a profound effect on the quality of the work its owners will produce.
you got a problem with that? Some may quibble about "if they work as promised" but remember the camera they tried out had a crippled interface so they couldn't experiment with some stuff like video etc. I'd say it was an honest and rather positive statement.
Next paragraph: We tried out the camera and:
Once the camera’s firmware gets up to speed by the time the camera ships in July (you can pre-order it now), I have a feeling a lot of jaws will be dropping

Here's the terrible awful "not a pro camera" paragraph:
It’s been a long time since Pentax tried to build a pro camera, but historically it has built truly inspired, innovative SLRs/DSLRs for consumers and enthusiasts who appreciate innovative cameras. The K-7 is the most advanced Pentax DSLR yet, and has features that serious amateurs, hobbyists and yes, even semi-pros, will find very attractive. Yes, you can turn the dial to P and shoot without thinking about exposure, but the fun begins when you dig into the menus and discover its many innovative features.
The first sentence I think is true. I don't know if Pentax is still building medium format cameras, but if they are not, this is definitely a true statement. The rest of the paragraph is a glowing recommendation of the camera, and the company. Let's go on shall we?
The reviewer goes on to describe some of the features of the camera, all in highly positive terms, 'just a few minutes to learn the menu system' 'can even see the rear lcd screen in bright sunlight' etc etc. I would say the only negative (if you want to call it that) is this: Lots of controls in back—15 in all—but no more than usual for a DSLR and Control layout is typical for a digital camera, with lots of buttons and controls, perhaps a few too many but considering the camera’s many abilities perhaps that many buttons are necessary.
so it looks complicated, but no more so than any other DSLR. Everything else written about the features is great: He says this about the video:
Then there’s the HD movie recording feature. I recorded a brief video and the quality, when I played it back on my 24-inch Mac monitor, was impressive. I hope to have a production version of this camera soon so I can demonstrate it for you here. The video is impressive. Not just that it's got video but it's impressive even on a 24 inch Mac Monitor! Hardly a negative comment.
And a caption for a photo of a menu screne:
The second of four picture-taking menus (right) gives you an idea of the K-7’s many innovative features. Half of the features on this screen shot have never been seen before in a DSLR. How much more positive do you want?

He finishes up his features section of the review with this terrible statement:
Multiple exposure? It’s in there. Extended bracketing up to 5 frames? Yup. Intervalometer? Check. Ability to add your copyright to each image’s EXIF data. You bet.

And finally the conclusion:
Thanks to its many unique, innovative features, the Pentax K-7 makes a compelling case for owners of other brand cameras to change systems. As Jack says, it's nothing less than a game changer. The first of its kind to offer in-camera HDR, giving it the ability to capture an impressive range of light (according to our resident HDR expert Jack Howard, that range should be almost 17EV!) the K-7 offers a range of features we’ve never seen before in a DSLR. The K-7 deserves very serious consideration as an essential picture-taking tool

And in that last sentence "very" is italicized.

I mean people WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THIS REVIEW? !!!!!

The only thing I can think of is this: I can go to a party where few people know me. Say there are 50 people at this party. 47 of them really like me at this first meeting. 2 are lukewarm and 1 guy takes an instant dislike to me. Do I focus on the 94% who liked me? or even the 4% who were so-so? Nope. I'm going to obsess over the one guy out of 50 who didn't like me. So stop focusing on "even semi pros" and focus instead on "The Pentax K-7 makes a compelling case for owers of other brand cameras to change systems"

NaCl(this camera is so good even a Canon owner will want to change!)H2O

06-04-2009, 06:45 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
I seriously don't know what everybod is so upset about. This is a stellar review from one of the biggies in the online camera marketing world. And I would venture to guess that their B&M store in NYC probably is only 2nd to B&H in as a physical store in that market. So, big NYC photographic store with a HUGE online presence give a very glowing review of the K-7 and people are upset because they decide not to label it "pro"? Lets take apart the review shall we?
Opening blurb: They talk about how all the camera makers hype their cameras and features but it's just market-speak and then they say this
The Pentax K-7 is that rare bird—a camera with many features that may, if they work as promised, have a profound effect on the quality of the work its owners will produce.
you got a problem with that? Some may quibble about "if they work as promised" but remember the camera they tried out had a crippled interface so they couldn't experiment with some stuff like video etc. I'd say it was an honest and rather positive statement.
Next paragraph: We tried out the camera and:
Once the camera’s firmware gets up to speed by the time the camera ships in July (you can pre-order it now), I have a feeling a lot of jaws will be dropping

Here's the terrible awful "not a pro camera" paragraph:
It’s been a long time since Pentax tried to build a pro camera, but historically it has built truly inspired, innovative SLRs/DSLRs for consumers and enthusiasts who appreciate innovative cameras. The K-7 is the most advanced Pentax DSLR yet, and has features that serious amateurs, hobbyists and yes, even semi-pros, will find very attractive. Yes, you can turn the dial to P and shoot without thinking about exposure, but the fun begins when you dig into the menus and discover its many innovative features.
The first sentence I think is true. I don't know if Pentax is still building medium format cameras, but if they are not, this is definitely a true statement. The rest of the paragraph is a glowing recommendation of the camera, and the company. Let's go on shall we?
The reviewer goes on to describe some of the features of the camera, all in highly positive terms, 'just a few minutes to learn the menu system' 'can even see the rear lcd screen in bright sunlight' etc etc. I would say the only negative (if you want to call it that) is this: Lots of controls in back—15 in all—but no more than usual for a DSLR and Control layout is typical for a digital camera, with lots of buttons and controls, perhaps a few too many but considering the camera’s many abilities perhaps that many buttons are necessary.
so it looks complicated, but no more so than any other DSLR. Everything else written about the features is great: He says this about the video:
Then there’s the HD movie recording feature. I recorded a brief video and the quality, when I played it back on my 24-inch Mac monitor, was impressive. I hope to have a production version of this camera soon so I can demonstrate it for you here. The video is impressive. Not just that it's got video but it's impressive even on a 24 inch Mac Monitor! Hardly a negative comment.
And a caption for a photo of a menu screne:
The second of four picture-taking menus (right) gives you an idea of the K-7’s many innovative features. Half of the features on this screen shot have never been seen before in a DSLR. How much more positive do you want?

He finishes up his features section of the review with this terrible statement:
Multiple exposure? It’s in there. Extended bracketing up to 5 frames? Yup. Intervalometer? Check. Ability to add your copyright to each image’s EXIF data. You bet.

And finally the conclusion:
Thanks to its many unique, innovative features, the Pentax K-7 makes a compelling case for owners of other brand cameras to change systems. As Jack says, it's nothing less than a game changer. The first of its kind to offer in-camera HDR, giving it the ability to capture an impressive range of light (according to our resident HDR expert Jack Howard, that range should be almost 17EV!) the K-7 offers a range of features we’ve never seen before in a DSLR. The K-7 deserves very serious consideration as an essential picture-taking tool

And in that last sentence "very" is italicized.

I mean people WHAT'S NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THIS REVIEW? !!!!!

The only thing I can think of is this: I can go to a party where few people know me. Say there are 50 people at this party. 47 of them really like me at this first meeting. 2 are lukewarm and 1 guy takes an instant dislike to me. Do I focus on the 94% who liked me? or even the 4% who were so-so? Nope. I'm going to obsess over the one guy out of 50 who didn't like me. So stop focusing on "even semi pros" and focus instead on "The Pentax K-7 makes a compelling case for owers of other brand cameras to change systems"

NaCl(this camera is so good even a Canon owner will want to change!)H2O
not enough. they didn't put it on a silver platter. j/k

Last edited by Pentaxor; 06-04-2009 at 10:17 PM.
06-04-2009, 09:47 PM   #25
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Thanks for the link
06-05-2009, 12:35 AM   #26
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If you guys want the K-7 to be viewed as a 'pro' level camera, have somebody embroider the words "PENTAX PROFESSIONAL" on your neckstrap in big, bold, red letters. Once a few people see you walking around with it, viral marketing will take care of the rest.

Then you can start complaining when Pentax raises their price to pro levels.
06-05-2009, 10:22 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
Maybe "Pro" equipment isn't made for amateurs, meaning no automatic mode stuff, no green mode and all.

Examples are the D3 and 1D. Only P, A/Av, S/Tv, M on those models.
I'm with Diego. This sounds wise, even if only the 'impression' not having Green Mode gives.
06-05-2009, 12:19 PM   #28
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Do you guys find it hard to trust reviews when the site has everything to gain from a positive review; I mean isn't hard to distinguish between geniune hype/excitement or just a good salesman?
06-05-2009, 12:30 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by NothingInCommon Quote
Do you guys find it hard to trust reviews when the site has everything to gain from a positive review; I mean isn't hard to distinguish between geniune hype/excitement or just a good salesman?
I would not worry about that... Adorma selling cameras.. not just Pentax cameras.

and I am pretty sure they are making more profit out of other brands
06-05-2009, 12:31 PM   #30
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I havent seen in my whole life anything more overrated that the term 'pro' in photography.

It doesnt make cameras better, it doesnt make you better and certainly it wouldnt make the things cheaper, so please, be just happy of using a semipro (just) camera!!!
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