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06-06-2009, 01:31 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
I believe you're setting yourself up to be disappointed. It is, IMHO, unrealistic to expect the K-7 to improve spectacularly on the K20D's IQ.

I prefer to think of it as a K20D in a much improved package, with faster AF, better metering, and a better shutter. I do expect fairly minor IQ improvements, but nothing earth-shattering.

Then again, I'm upgrading from a K10D, so I'm probably easier to impress
I think you have it right, K-7's IQ will probably be a little better than K20's (wait for production tests, the present ones are almost meaningless) but probably not by a wide margin.

Think 0,5 stop more DR and 0,5 stop less high ISO noise at most, maybe less, but surely not a worse performance than K20 which is already very good.

The K-7 will probably not be a "game changer" in the IQ department but it clearly has other arguments that makes it a worthy upgrade from the K10/K20 and also other brands APS-C DSLRs.

06-06-2009, 04:07 AM   #32
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Ephotozine is a great web zine, undoubtedly.
But...K-7 compared with 620?!?!? It's sound very strange to me. This guy are a little mad
For me no sense have comparing an entry level dslr (e620) with a pro/semi-pro dslr (K-7).

Last edited by Vinfer; 06-06-2009 at 05:08 AM.
06-06-2009, 04:32 AM   #33
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I'm afraid there are a lot of Pentax folks who need to be taking some Valiums about now. John Carlson said that the big differences between the current firmware and the final one that would be released with the K-7 will be in the area of image quality. That is exactly why Pentax asked that full size photos not be posted on the web until final firmware is out.

We really will not see the photos that make you want to buy the camera until it actually gets out into (real) photographer's hands and they start snapping away. Unfortunately, that is still several weeks away, so just hang in there!
06-06-2009, 08:54 AM   #34
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Oh for goodness sake. Stop judging image quality from these badly done reviews on pre-production models! The camera hasn't even been released yet!

How could the image quality possibly get worse that the top-of-its-class K20d? They IMPROVED the sensor. Practically the only complaints anyone ever had about the K20d were about the slow auto-focus (apparently improved in the K-7), the too big body (the K-7 is significantly smaller), and the lack of video mode (which is obviously incorporated in the K-7). Sheesh, it's amazing that people ALWAYS find something to whine about. Maybe they should be out taking pictures instead of speculating about a camera that won't be released for at least another month.


Last edited by ballgofar; 06-06-2009 at 08:55 AM. Reason: typo
06-12-2009, 01:15 AM   #35
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Thanks for all your comments, good and bad. I have a bad memory so please forgive my not mentioning names.
First things first, I wasn't comparing the K-7 to the E-620, if you cared to read the review I say that the E-620 is possibly one of the best cameras released due to its features and advancements. I said in the review that the K-7 could challenge the E-620 for that title. Please get facts straight before you criticise me.
Regarding the sensor adjustment, no I didn't know that the sensor moved but in my defence, when I wrote the article I had (and still have) no instruction manual and there wasn't anything on the website about the camera.

I summarise that this is an excellent camera and you still tore the review apart. Really, what do you want me to say? Short of getting a quote from God saying that he approves, I don't see what we can do. I gave it a cutting edge award and a highly recommended award.

For the "friendliest" pentax forum on the net, you're surprisingly aggressive. I think maybe the comments on these pages should be read with impartial eyes and then consider who's the cynic?

thanks
06-12-2009, 01:30 AM   #36
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In all fairness, Mr Grayson raises a valid point - he didn't get an instruction manual.
Now, I believe this is the same with all reviewers of beta/pre production units of the K-7 - that they have made reviews without reading the instruction manual (because it is isn't printed yet).

Quite hard to make a fair review of a product without an instruction manual.
I believe Mr Grayson did the best he could during the circumstances.
And hopefully he will update his review when he gets access to a production unit.

And, I agree with Mr Grayson that this forum sometimes is a bit too agressive for being "friendliest forum". Surely we can do much better?
06-12-2009, 01:48 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by MattGrayson Quote
Thanks for all your comments, good and bad.
Matt, welcome to this forum.

I am really glad to have you here and I hope you will be around from time to time.


As for your report ... I actually liked most of it.

I got a question, though...
Just out of curiosity, I observed that most of your iso test shots aren't in 100% focus, be it K-7, Pentax or any other brand. As an example, take the K-7 ISO 100 test shot and zoom onto the cross hair.

What is the reason for this?

I am really interested to learn the reason. I guess it is that the cameras simply don't auto-focus more excatly and one may think that noise tests don't need precise focus. Please note that many on this forum actually believe that focus in noise tests does matter when it comes to judge how much of the fine detail texture got destroyed by a camera's denoising algorithm.
06-12-2009, 02:02 AM   #38
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Hi there, thanks for the reply. I had an extremely small window to shoot the tests in so i could be the first to give you the review. All noise images are shot in Program to get even exposure but for some reason the camera chose a narrow aperture (f/2 I think). I saw the shot and thought of the time it would take to set up the studio againa nd redo the noise test. I'd have to shoot all settings again so that conditions are identical for them. I considered it the lesser of two evils. I also condisered that I'll be redoing the noise tests when the final firmware comes through.

06-12-2009, 02:38 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by MattGrayson Quote
I considered it the lesser of two evils. I also condisered that I'll be redoing the noise tests when the final firmware comes through.
Matt, thanks for the explaination. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Thanxs you found the time at all, given so few advance notice

Redoing the noise test with final firmware will be interesting.

So, we probbaly agree that your noise test images aren't meant to judge image sharpness from.
06-12-2009, 03:20 AM   #40
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A wide aperture suggests that the camera was set to action/high speed program line?
Or simply a matter of beta firmware.
06-12-2009, 07:05 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by MattGrayson Quote
I summarise that this is an excellent camera and you still tore the review apart. Really, what do you want me to say? Short of getting a quote from God saying that he approves, I don't see what we can do.
As a journalist, if you get a quote from God, I must insist that you also get a quote from the Devil for a balanced article. God has a well known Canon bias.
06-12-2009, 08:08 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
I believe you're setting yourself up to be disappointed. It is, IMHO, unrealistic to expect the K-7 to improve spectacularly on the K20D's IQ.

I prefer to think of it as a K20D in a much improved package, with faster AF, better metering, and a better shutter. I do expect fairly minor IQ improvements, but nothing earth-shattering.
Exactly so. There is very little that could be done to improve the K20D IQ, except reduce the banding in high ISO and reducing the noise overall. The former I would definitely hope to see, the latter I am expecting to be no more than a subtle improvement. There's only so little noise one can expect when 14MP is crammed into APS-C.

I think this is precisely why Pentax are now playing the features game. The IQ is already superlative.
06-12-2009, 10:49 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
As a journalist, if you get a quote from God, I must insist that you also get a quote from the Devil for a balanced article. God has a well known Canon bias.
That's funny. I thought reality had a well known Pentax biased. I don't know about you, but I turn on the weather channel and I see a lot more places that could use weather (and dirt, dust, and sand) sealing than not....
06-12-2009, 12:52 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by MattGrayson Quote
Thanks for all your comments, good and bad. I have a bad memory so please forgive my not mentioning names.
First things first, I wasn't comparing the K-7 to the E-620, if you cared to read the review I say that the E-620 is possibly one of the best cameras released due to its features and advancements. I said in the review that the K-7 could challenge the E-620 for that title. Please get facts straight before you criticise me.
Regarding the sensor adjustment, no I didn't know that the sensor moved but in my defence, when I wrote the article I had (and still have) no instruction manual and there wasn't anything on the website about the camera.

I summarise that this is an excellent camera and you still tore the review apart. Really, what do you want me to say? Short of getting a quote from God saying that he approves, I don't see what we can do. I gave it a cutting edge award and a highly recommended award.

For the "friendliest" pentax forum on the net, you're surprisingly aggressive. I think maybe the comments on these pages should be read with impartial eyes and then consider who's the cynic?

thanks
As to the composition adjustment feature, in my defense, the review was posted on 6/03 and Pentax had already posted information on this feature online. Maybe you wrote the review well in advance of publishing it, but I would think you would edit it once the information was available.

As to my other critiques, I certainly won't deny that I'm cynical and was probably a little too likely to pick up on any hint of negativity. I apologize for that.

And as for the E-620, I never thought you were comparing the two cameras, just thought your statement about the 620 being best camera ever was odd. Maybe it just needs a little more context.
06-12-2009, 03:52 PM   #45
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i actually think the review is nice (and has some interesting information i didn't know before, like the fact that the new metering system is "3d" style, tkaing into account distance), for a brief preview, i think it's pretty informative and sounds fair. the guy did mention mostly handling and feel (which makes sense, that will not change with the production models). the preview sounds reserved, but on the optimistic side.

i actually appreciate the mention of oly 620, it didn't sound like a comparison, the man just likes that camera a lot, regardless of price, he just likes it overall, and feels he might like the k-7, overall (for it's price point and features and all) just as much or maybe better. that says a lot (and it also gives a hint that he is not brand-biased, oly is not exactly canon or nikon). if you still don't understand, think about d3x: unarguably the best dslr ever made, but for the money, you will find few people to say that it is, overall, the best dslr you can buy with your money, for me and you, the k20d might simply be a better camera.

i think we are a bit too stressed on this forum, take it easy. i recall the popphoto (i think?) review last year of the k20d, our reaction was explosive (and rightfully so), there was stuff like "the two control wheels are confusing, i am used to just one" and "shooting sports in liveview is not very feasible as the af is not quick enough" and the list goes on, now read this review again, and compare them. i think this is an informative preview, and it sounds like an honest one to me (even if reserved in some areas, which i understand given it is a preproduction model).

and finally, welcome matt, and kudos to you for replying and standing your ground. whatever your oppinion, i personally respect it as long as you are willing to stand by it and give valid arguments to your statements. see you around

edit: i want to mention one thing: for me, one of the most exciting features of the k-7 is the release of the two ws kit (cheap) lenses (yeah, i know, we're not really talking about the body anymore), this places pentax in a position which they were clearly aiming, and which no one on the market is even close to. i would put more emphasis on that, but that's just my personal view.

Last edited by nanok; 06-12-2009 at 03:58 PM.
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