No new and real competitors for Pentax K-7?

ogl · 06-05-2009, 09:42 PM

I've heard about D300s = D300 (12.3 MP) with 7 fps and rather average video mode,
CF+SD slots. No any Nikon D400.

???

Movie:
Frame size (pixels) 1,280 x 720/24 fps, 640 x 424/24 fps, 320 x 216/24 fps
File format AVI
Compression format Motion-JPEG
Autofocus Contrast-detect AF on a desired point within a frame is possible (Tripod mode)
Audio Sound can be recorded via built-in or optional external microphone; sensitivity can be adjusted
Maximum length 5 min (1,280 x 720 pixels), 20 min (640 x 424, 320 x 216 pixels)

Sony is in technological stagnation now. The official persons said about it at the presentation of A230/330/380 in Russia 2 days ago. No new sensors, no upgrade of A700 and A900 now.

It was smart move of Pentax to cooperate with Samsung.

Enc0der · 06-06-2009, 05:07 AM

Nikon D400 / Canon 60D.

The K-7 is a great camera, and CURRENTLY it's the absolute best in its class - but you can come back to reality and stop living-a-lie. Canon and Nikon WILL have a decent (probably better, but more expensive) competitors to the K-7, within the upcoming year.

(I wonder who will be the first moron who'll tell me to stop "bashing" Pentax)

RMabo · 06-06-2009, 05:18 AM

But then you forget that Pentax will have the K-7 replacement model ready that kills the new Canon 60D and Nikon D400.

There will always be something better, and this is not only true for Pentax but also for the competition! Pentax has not stopped it's R&D activities, it doesn't end with the K-7. Just the competition will become better and better, so will Pentax.

Enc0der · 06-06-2009, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by RMabo

But then you forget that Pentax will have the K-7 replacement model ready that kills the new Canon 60D and Nikon D400.

I highly doubt that Pentax will have the K-7 replacement by the end of the year (2009), when the Canikon replacements will be out......

Quote:

There will always be something better, and this is not only true for Pentax but also for the competition! Pentax has not stopped it's R&D activities, it doesn't end with the K-7. Just the competition will become better and better, so will Pentax.

Of course, I agree.
However ogl thinks that there will be no new and real competitors for the K-7, while this is highly not true as the competitors from Canikon will be out within just a few months, and you have to agree with me that Pentax won't have a K-8 announcement within the upcoming months, or even the upcoming YEAR for that matter.

ogl · 06-06-2009, 06:16 AM

I say that Pentax has very good position with K-7 at market now.
D300s can't change the situation.
Olympus had already announced ALL they could.
E-30, E-620, E-450.
Sony has no any new cameras (A230/330/380 are restyling models).
Canon 50D was announced only 9 months ago.

Pentax could make the position stronger with replacement of K200D and K-m this year.

jsherman999 · 06-06-2009, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by ogl

I say that Pentax has very good position at market now with K-7.
D300s can't change the situation.
Olympus had already announced ALL they could.
E-30, E-620, E-450.
Sony has no any new cameras (A230/330/380 are restyling models).
Canon 50D was announced only 9 months ago.

Pentax has kinda positioned themselves to own most of 2009, at least for bragging rights, if not sales.

The D400 (if it comes) is probably not going to blow the K-7 out of the water in any area, and it will not have in-body SR, no matter what. And it will start at aound $1600 and stay at $1400 or so for over a year, when the K-7 will probably be down to $900 in 6 months.

Mike Johnston gave the K20D his #2 Recommended Camera's spot because it matched the others in it's class, but was so much less expensive - the K-7 will follow the same pattern.

.

MikePerham · 06-06-2009, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by RMabo

But then you forget that Pentax will have the K-7 replacement model ready that kills the new Canon 60D and Nikon D400.

There will always be something better, and this is not only true for Pentax but also for the competition! Pentax has not stopped it's R&D activities, it doesn't end with the K-7. Just the competition will become better and better, so will Pentax.

But there is a certain maturity in the DSLR world. The megapixal race seems to be over and being replaced with features (HD video, live view etc.). I had my K10 for a couple years plus, and I think my K-7 will likely suffice for a bit longer than that.

mithrandir · 06-06-2009, 08:23 AM

I think Pentax has done what most of ask were asking. A boatload of features at a reasonable price. As a mature retiree I appreciate the fact that with a little put aside each month, I will be able to afford to upgrade. The K7 (even prerelease) is very impressive, even the video. Thank you so much Pentax for listening to your supporters. Thanks for continuing to support our older glass as well.

Urkeldaedalus · 06-06-2009, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Enc0der

Nikon D400 / Canon 60D.

The K-7 is a great camera, and CURRENTLY it's the absolute best in its class - but you can come back to reality and stop living-a-lie. Canon and Nikon WILL have a decent (probably better, but more expensive) competitors to the K-7, within the upcoming year.

(I wonder who will be the first moron who'll tell me to stop "bashing" Pentax)

I don't think there's any doubt that Canon and Nikon will come out with new models like you say, and I also agree that they will probably beat the K-7 as far as specs go. Where Pentax has done well so far is releasing an affordable camera that appeals to a broad market segment at a time when none of these competitors has been announced -- yet.

Personally, I'm used to Pentax cameras being underwhelming in comparative specs, so these new models to be don't really worry me. What I appreciate most about what I'm hearing about the K-7 is it appears that it will be a camera that will still be reliable and very useable years after its release, and years after it is dwarfed by newer models. This is similar to how the D300 has been for Nikon, for example, and this makes me comfortable in looking at the camera as a wise purchase.

sezme · 06-06-2009, 11:12 AM

Pentax owns the prosumer space for now (at least on specs). I'm a realist and don't see them outselling the D400 or 60D when those are released, market forces being what they are. But it all starts with mindshare, and the K-7 has bought a ton of that.

Where they're suffering is in the lower end. Yesterday a friend asked me to help her pick out a beginner dslr. She's on a budget, and it came down to the Olympus e520 and the Nikon D60. I would dearly have loved to be able to recommend the K-M to her, but it cost about $100 more than the others - a hard sell when she ended up paying ~$530 for the D60. In this case, my friend was buying a camera more than a system (even though she used Pentax in her film days), but if you can hook them on the low end - even if they don't think they're buying into a system, then you have a much better chance of keeping customers once they aspire to something better.

I don't fault Pentax; I think they're making the most of limited resources to compete in the DSLR space, but it's a shame they don't have a slightly cheaper model to compete for price with the likes of the D60 and e520.

update: I just checked Amazon.com and they do look competitive, with the K2000/K-M coming out cheaper than the D60, so perhaps I have to put it down to Pentax having recently screwed up their pricing in the Canadian market.

jake123 · 06-06-2009, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by sezme

Pentax owns the prosumer space for now (at least on specs). I'm a realist and don't see them outselling the D400 or 60D when those are released, market forces being what they are. But it all starts with mindshare, and the K-7 has bought a ton of that.

Where they're suffering is in the lower end. Yesterday a friend asked me to help her pick out a beginner dslr. She's on a budget, and it came down to the Olympus e520 and the Nikon D60. I would dearly have loved to be able to recommend the K-M to her, but it cost about $100 more than the others - a hard sell when she ended up paying ~$530 for the D60. In this case, my friend was buying a camera more than a system (even though she used Pentax in her film days), but if you can hook them on the low end - even if they don't think they're buying into a system, then you have a much better chance of keeping customers once they aspire to something better.

I don't fault Pentax; I think they're making the most of limited resources to compete in the DSLR space, but it's a shame they don't have a slightly cheaper model to compete for price with the likes of the D60 and e520.

update: I just checked Amazon.com and they do look competitive, with the K2000/K-M coming out cheaper than the D60, so perhaps I have to put it down to Pentax having recently screwed up their pricing in the Canadian market.

Do you know prodigital2000? http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/pict/120429309688_1.jpg

Try offering a 10% off price. I think they'll accept it.

But watch the exchange rates because I lost 10% on my 12-24 purchase just because of the strong cad these two months.

robgo2 · 06-06-2009, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Urkeldaedalus

I don't think there's any doubt that Canon and Nikon will come out with new models like you say, and I also agree that they will probably beat the K-7 as far as specs go. Where Pentax has done well so far is releasing an affordable camera that appeals to a broad market segment at a time when none of these competitors has been announced -- yet.

My expectation is that the next generation of Nikon and Canon cameras will surpass the K-7 in some areas and lag it in others. Where they almost certainly will not beat it is in terms of value.

**ManuH** · 06-06-2009, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by ogl

Sony is in technological stagnation now. The official persons said about it at the presentation of A230/330/380 in Russia 2 days ago. No new sensors, no upgrade of A700 and A900 now.

If the D300s is true, it's really no big deal indeed. Canon may release the 60D, but it will be probably late summer and then, aside from video, what could it bring so new?

Oly has already played all their cards (for DSLR, I think they are also working on a small m4/3) and they're not that great.

For Sony, the A230/330/380 (sounds like Airbus models) are quite underwhelming "upgrades". You can feel the disapointments in the Sony forums. And the A700 is starting to get old. The A900 just got released so I don't think we'll see any upgrade before 2011. What is strange (for a company that has huge R&D) is that Sony AFAIK has no video mode and no "real" liveview (the liveview of A3xx cameras does not come from the main sensor).

mattdm · 06-06-2009, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by ManuH

Oly has already played all their cards (for DSLR, I think they are also working on a small m4/3) and they're not that great.

The m4/3 camera is leaked: http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=628866

It looks really sweet, especially with that 17mm pancake.

But it's not really competing with the K-7.

**ManuH** · 06-06-2009, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by mattdm

The m4/3 camera is leaked: ¹ØÓÚOLYMPUSµÄM43»ú - ÎÞ¼ÉÂÛÌ³

It looks really sweet, especially with that 17mm pancake.

But it's not really competing with the K-7.

It's more like a complement, and a really exciting one. I was so disapointed by all the DP1/DP2 reports... Could be the niche the 4/3 system will excel in. But I'll also wait for the NX and see how much compatibility it will have with the K-mount (could be a big plus vs the m4/3).

06-05-2009, 09:42 PM	#1
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	No new and real competitors for Pentax K-7? I've heard about D300s = D300 (12.3 MP) with 7 fps and rather average video mode, CF+SD slots. No any Nikon D400.??? Movie: Frame size (pixels) 1,280 x 720/24 fps, 640 x 424/24 fps, 320 x 216/24 fps File format AVI Compression format Motion-JPEG Autofocus Contrast-detect AF on a desired point within a frame is possible (Tripod mode) Audio Sound can be recorded via built-in or optional external microphone; sensitivity can be adjusted Maximum length 5 min (1,280 x 720 pixels), 20 min (640 x 424, 320 x 216 pixels) Sony is in technological stagnation now. The official persons said about it at the presentation of A230/330/380 in Russia 2 days ago. No new sensors, no upgrade of A700 and A900 now. It was smart move of Pentax to cooperate with Samsung.

06-06-2009, 06:16 AM	#5
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382 Original Poster	I say that Pentax has very good position with K-7 at market now. D300s can't change the situation. Olympus had already announced ALL they could. E-30, E-620, E-450. Sony has no any new cameras (A230/330/380 are restyling models). Canon 50D was announced only 9 months ago. Pentax could make the position stronger with replacement of K200D and K-m this year. Last edited by ogl; 06-06-2009 at 06:29 AM.

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06-06-2009, 05:07 AM	#2
Enc0der Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 107	Nikon D400 / Canon 60D. The K-7 is a great camera, and CURRENTLY it's the absolute best in its class - but you can come back to reality and stop living-a-lie. Canon and Nikon WILL have a decent (probably better, but more expensive) competitors to the K-7, within the upcoming year. (I wonder who will be the first moron who'll tell me to stop "bashing" Pentax)

06-06-2009, 05:18 AM	#3
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	But then you forget that Pentax will have the K-7 replacement model ready that kills the new Canon 60D and Nikon D400. There will always be something better, and this is not only true for Pentax but also for the competition! Pentax has not stopped it's R&D activities, it doesn't end with the K-7. Just the competition will become better and better, so will Pentax.

06-06-2009, 05:25 AM	#4
Enc0der Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 107	Originally posted by RMabo But then you forget that Pentax will have the K-7 replacement model ready that kills the new Canon 60D and Nikon D400. I highly doubt that Pentax will have the K-7 replacement by the end of the year (2009), when the Canikon replacements will be out...... Quote: There will always be something better, and this is not only true for Pentax but also for the competition! Pentax has not stopped it's R&D activities, it doesn't end with the K-7. Just the competition will become better and better, so will Pentax. Of course, I agree. However ogl thinks that there will be no new and real competitors for the K-7, while this is highly not true as the competitors from Canikon will be out within just a few months, and you have to agree with me that Pentax won't have a K-8 announcement within the upcoming months, or even the upcoming YEAR for that matter.

06-06-2009, 06:29 AM	#6
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by ogl I say that Pentax has very good position at market now with K-7. D300s can't change the situation. Olympus had already announced ALL they could. E-30, E-620, E-450. Sony has no any new cameras (A230/330/380 are restyling models). Canon 50D was announced only 9 months ago. Pentax has kinda positioned themselves to own most of 2009, at least for bragging rights, if not sales. The D400 (if it comes) is probably not going to blow the K-7 out of the water in any area, and it will not have in-body SR, no matter what. And it will start at aound $1600 and stay at $1400 or so for over a year, when the K-7 will probably be down to $900 in 6 months. Mike Johnston gave the K20D his #2 Recommended Camera's spot because it matched the others in it's class, but was so much less expensive - the K-7 will follow the same pattern. .

06-06-2009, 08:02 AM	#7
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by RMabo But then you forget that Pentax will have the K-7 replacement model ready that kills the new Canon 60D and Nikon D400. There will always be something better, and this is not only true for Pentax but also for the competition! Pentax has not stopped it's R&D activities, it doesn't end with the K-7. Just the competition will become better and better, so will Pentax. But there is a certain maturity in the DSLR world. The megapixal race seems to be over and being replaced with features (HD video, live view etc.). I had my K10 for a couple years plus, and I think my K-7 will likely suffice for a bit longer than that.

06-06-2009, 08:23 AM	#8
mithrandir Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,895	I think Pentax has done what most of ask were asking. A boatload of features at a reasonable price. As a mature retiree I appreciate the fact that with a little put aside each month, I will be able to afford to upgrade. The K7 (even prerelease) is very impressive, even the video. Thank you so much Pentax for listening to your supporters. Thanks for continuing to support our older glass as well.

06-06-2009, 08:48 AM	#9
Urkeldaedalus Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,369	Originally posted by Enc0der Nikon D400 / Canon 60D. The K-7 is a great camera, and CURRENTLY it's the absolute best in its class - but you can come back to reality and stop living-a-lie. Canon and Nikon WILL have a decent (probably better, but more expensive) competitors to the K-7, within the upcoming year. (I wonder who will be the first moron who'll tell me to stop "bashing" Pentax) I don't think there's any doubt that Canon and Nikon will come out with new models like you say, and I also agree that they will probably beat the K-7 as far as specs go. Where Pentax has done well so far is releasing an affordable camera that appeals to a broad market segment at a time when none of these competitors has been announced -- yet. Personally, I'm used to Pentax cameras being underwhelming in comparative specs, so these new models to be don't really worry me. What I appreciate most about what I'm hearing about the K-7 is it appears that it will be a camera that will still be reliable and very useable years after its release, and years after it is dwarfed by newer models. This is similar to how the D300 has been for Nikon, for example, and this makes me comfortable in looking at the camera as a wise purchase.

06-06-2009, 11:12 AM	#10
sezme Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 59	Pentax owns the prosumer space for now (at least on specs). I'm a realist and don't see them outselling the D400 or 60D when those are released, market forces being what they are. But it all starts with mindshare, and the K-7 has bought a ton of that. Where they're suffering is in the lower end. Yesterday a friend asked me to help her pick out a beginner dslr. She's on a budget, and it came down to the Olympus e520 and the Nikon D60. I would dearly have loved to be able to recommend the K-M to her, but it cost about $100 more than the others - a hard sell when she ended up paying ~$530 for the D60. In this case, my friend was buying a camera more than a system (even though she used Pentax in her film days), but if you can hook them on the low end - even if they don't think they're buying into a system, then you have a much better chance of keeping customers once they aspire to something better. I don't fault Pentax; I think they're making the most of limited resources to compete in the DSLR space, but it's a shame they don't have a slightly cheaper model to compete for price with the likes of the D60 and e520. update: I just checked Amazon.com and they do look competitive, with the K2000/K-M coming out cheaper than the D60, so perhaps I have to put it down to Pentax having recently screwed up their pricing in the Canadian market.

06-06-2009, 11:59 AM	#11
jake123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 130	Originally posted by sezme Pentax owns the prosumer space for now (at least on specs). I'm a realist and don't see them outselling the D400 or 60D when those are released, market forces being what they are. But it all starts with mindshare, and the K-7 has bought a ton of that. Where they're suffering is in the lower end. Yesterday a friend asked me to help her pick out a beginner dslr. She's on a budget, and it came down to the Olympus e520 and the Nikon D60. I would dearly have loved to be able to recommend the K-M to her, but it cost about $100 more than the others - a hard sell when she ended up paying ~$530 for the D60. In this case, my friend was buying a camera more than a system (even though she used Pentax in her film days), but if you can hook them on the low end - even if they don't think they're buying into a system, then you have a much better chance of keeping customers once they aspire to something better. I don't fault Pentax; I think they're making the most of limited resources to compete in the DSLR space, but it's a shame they don't have a slightly cheaper model to compete for price with the likes of the D60 and e520. update: I just checked Amazon.com and they do look competitive, with the K2000/K-M coming out cheaper than the D60, so perhaps I have to put it down to Pentax having recently screwed up their pricing in the Canadian market. Do you know prodigital2000? http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/pict/120429309688_1.jpg Try offering a 10% off price. I think they'll accept it. But watch the exchange rates because I lost 10% on my 12-24 purchase just because of the strong cad these two months.

06-06-2009, 04:21 PM	#12
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by Urkeldaedalus I don't think there's any doubt that Canon and Nikon will come out with new models like you say, and I also agree that they will probably beat the K-7 as far as specs go. Where Pentax has done well so far is releasing an affordable camera that appeals to a broad market segment at a time when none of these competitors has been announced -- yet. My expectation is that the next generation of Nikon and Canon cameras will surpass the K-7 in some areas and lag it in others. Where they almost certainly will not beat it is in terms of value.

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06-06-2009, 05:12 PM	#13
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by ogl Sony is in technological stagnation now. The official persons said about it at the presentation of A230/330/380 in Russia 2 days ago. No new sensors, no upgrade of A700 and A900 now. If the D300s is true, it's really no big deal indeed. Canon may release the 60D, but it will be probably late summer and then, aside from video, what could it bring so new? Oly has already played all their cards (for DSLR, I think they are also working on a small m4/3) and they're not that great. For Sony, the A230/330/380 (sounds like Airbus models) are quite underwhelming "upgrades". You can feel the disapointments in the Sony forums. And the A700 is starting to get old. The A900 just got released so I don't think we'll see any upgrade before 2011. What is strange (for a company that has huge R&D) is that Sony AFAIK has no video mode and no "real" liveview (the liveview of A3xx cameras does not come from the main sensor).

06-06-2009, 05:31 PM	#14
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by ManuH Oly has already played all their cards (for DSLR, I think they are also working on a small m4/3) and they're not that great. The m4/3 camera is leaked: http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=628866 It looks really sweet, especially with that 17mm pancake. But it's not really competing with the K-7.

06-06-2009, 07:12 PM	#15
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by mattdm The m4/3 camera is leaked: ¹ØÓÚOLYMPUSµÄM43»ú - ÎÞ¼ÉÂÛÌ³ It looks really sweet, especially with that 17mm pancake. But it's not really competing with the K-7. It's more like a complement, and a really exciting one. I was so disapointed by all the DP1/DP2 reports... Could be the niche the 4/3 system will excel in. But I'll also wait for the NX and see how much compatibility it will have with the K-mount (could be a big plus vs the m4/3).