Anyone else dislikes the comparisons of the K-7 to the D5000/T1i or D300/50D even?

redpigeons · 06-10-2009, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Since it uses Pentax lenses, it will be better for me than either the Nikon or Canon. Beyond that, I'm not really too concerned. It will be what it is.

I think its a lot about Pentax decision not to get in to the "pro" market

go to Olympus website on every page you will find the word "pro" at list 10 times

go to Pentax website all you will see are the words "advanced" "aspiring amateurs" "aficionados" "hobbyists" and so on

the world pro not showing ever

so it is what it is ... I think its wrong marketing as a Pentax shooter... but obviously some one at pentax disagree with me

GoldenWreckedAngle · 06-10-2009, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by ogl

It's marketing and information war against K-7. I'm sure.
I've already seen in Russia - "K-7 is new amateur camera, competitor for D90, but D90 is cheaper"...
It's a trick.

Just Digital Cameras, Digital Camera Reviews - The Imaging Resource! and Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ are responsible

It's easy to undestand that K-7 is in one league with E3/A700/D300/50D. If any web-resourse compares K-7 with cameras of lower class, it means it's order from N/C marketing department. I don't remember such moves before...
K-7 is really cool machine so even Nikon and Canon don't like it.

No - Pentax is responsible and I don't think they want or deserve this type of excuse. It was not reviewers who elevated Canon and Nikon to the top, it was Canon and Nikon. Pros certainly don't stand in a camera store with a Pentax in one hand (if they can find one) and a CaNikon in the other and weigh them with equal bias. They will factor the shelves of glass and accessories beside them, and their history of support with both brands, and they will walk out with the one they trust the most. That trust is Pentax's to earn, not a reviewer's to grant.

If there is a true bias on the part of reviewers (highly speculative) to push their readers to one of the top brands it probably has a lot more to do with the fact that those brands have earned their trust over the course of many years. It's one thing to produce a truly remarkable product now and then. Canon and Nikon have produced a truly remarkable industry.

Brand loyalty among professionals is the result of performance, not biased reviews. The K-7 is one rung on a very tall ladder for Pentax. It's a solid rung but there is a lot more climbing ahead before industry professionals, including most reviewers, willingly place them in league with the top industry brands.

If anything, the previews and reviews I've read seem to be biased with a bit of pulling for the underdog. I think the vast majority of them, especially the two listed above, have been more than fair.

redpigeons · 06-10-2009, 10:22 AM

GoldenWreckedAngle

to be honest does not look like pentax is trying or even have any will to play in the pro business
I think that some one in Pentax made the decision that the big money is at the amateur market (and he is probably right)

in my book thou the word pro will attract more amateurs...

and advanced amateur needs to know that they have a place to grow if / when they will become pros

as of now pentax do not give these solutions to the very same market they are trying to aim .

the do have the best glass around thou and that is why I love them

RMabo · 06-10-2009, 10:32 AM

By tradition - and Pentax are still very proud of their long heritage and tradition - "pro" for Pentax means medium format. Now, there will be a pro Pentax soon - the 645D. So, the K-7 can't be labeled Pro. If it was, everyone would compare it against the 645D, and it is not clear who would win this battle. Instead of having two pro cameras, which would confuse everyone, Pentax will have the 645D there. And the K-7 positioned below it, taking up "middle" position. And then we have the class below it where Pentax can afford the luxury to have two DSLR's, which is a bit few compared to the three Sony's and the bunch of Nikon's and Olympus'.

cousinsane · 06-10-2009, 10:33 AM

Let them compare. Who cares.

redpigeons · 06-10-2009, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by RMabo

By tradition - and Pentax are still very proud of their long heritage and tradition - "pro" for Pentax means medium format. Now, there will be a pro Pentax soon - the 645D. So, the K-7 can't be labeled Pro. If it was, everyone would compare it against the 645D, and it is not clear who would win this battle. Instead of having two pro cameras, which would confuse everyone, Pentax will have the 645D there. And the K-7 positioned below it, taking up "middle" position. And then we have the class below it where Pentax can afford the luxury to have two DSLR's, which is a bit few compared to the three Sony's and the bunch of Nikon's and Olympus'.

thats what I used to think

the only problem I find with that is that the 645D (no doubt a PRO camera) but its a pro studio camera.. and most of the pentax shooters to day are outdoors shooters

so yes there is a need for digital medium format camera by professionals that have a film Pentax medium format

never the less there is still a need for a pro 35mm SLR (we all know what I am talking about

)

RMabo · 06-10-2009, 12:01 PM

It is interresting that you claim that the 645D is for studio photography instead of outdoor photography, especially when one consider that the film 645 was widely used as a field camera and it was very popular among nature photographers. It was in fact The medium format camera of choice for outdoor photography - because it felt in many ways like a SLR. It was compact, robust and effective. Because of it's small size and SLR-like easy handling, it never got the status of Hasselblad. Still, the 645 medium format film camera was very popular in it's days.

I don't see why the 645D wouldn't be as good for outdoor photography as the 645 film camera was.

redpigeons · 06-10-2009, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by RMabo

It is interresting that you claim that the 645D is for studio photography instead of outdoor photography, especially when one consider that the film 645 was widely used as a field camera and it was very popular among nature photographers. It was in fact The medium format camera of choice for outdoor photography - because it felt in many ways like a SLR. It was compact, robust and effective. Because of it's small size and SLR-like easy handling, it never got the status of Hasselblad. Still, the 645 medium format film camera was very popular in it's days.

I don't see why the 645D wouldn't be as good for outdoor photography as the 645 film camera was.

yeah perhaps you are right..
still ppl that will spend $11000-20000 are not the kind of people I am talking about
Pentax still missing Btw $1200 and $11000 there is a gap

eagle · 06-10-2009, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Since it uses Pentax lenses, it will be better for me than either the Nikon or Canon. Beyond that, I'm not really too concerned. It will be what it is.

Agreed, I would rather see comparisons of image quality, but not possible yet.

wlachan · 06-10-2009, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by NothingInCommon

Truthfully, with all the hype surrounding the K-7 I expected it to be seen as a DSLR that was above D300/50D caliber, but most sites seem to put in between D5000/T1i and D300/50D or on par with D300/50D . This to me is kind of a let down. Do you agree with these sites or do you feel K-7 will be better all around to D300/50D?

Pentax has yet to prove themselves with on par AF & metering against Canon, let alone Nikon. So far K7 has been looking promising on paper, but so was the K20D. Time will tell. But then I don't really care how others feel about the gears that I use cos I know why I use them. If somebody came up to me saying my K7 (if I could afford one lol) was a toy and inferior to D40 or Rebel, I would not be upset at all. The world is full of opinions, why the fuss.

GoldenWreckedAngle · 06-10-2009, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by redpigeons

GoldenWreckedAngle

... the do have the best glass around thou and that is why I love them

They do hold there own with lenses but I don't think this statement is as cut and dry as it may have once been. There are some amazing tubes of glass on the market from just about everyone these days. I suspect we will see other manufacturers beginning to pull away in the future if Pentax stays its present course.

Full frame bodies demand a higher grade of lens and even Ned Bunell doesn't feel that Pentax glass is up to full frame standards. To quote from this post on his blog, "In our case, if we developed a full frame camera, it's likely that very few of our recent DA lenses (those designed for APS-C) would be able to properly fill the viewing area of this new sensor. And although we have some wonderful FA lenses, like my favorite FA 31mm Limited, I'm not sure even this lens would be up to the optical challenge."

From everything I've read that 31mm is about as good as it gets in Pentax glass but the professional standard has moved. I hate to say it but the third party full frame lens manufacturers are likely to currently be out-resolving many of the best offerings of a company primarily focused on cropped sensor technology. That's not a given, but Pentax is marketing themselves as best bang for the buck, not necessarily the best you can buy, and in my mind that applies to their lenses as well.

I love Pentax, because they offer the biggest bang for the buck but Canon, Nikon and a couple of others are the pro brands right now and it's because of their products, not just their brand loyal fans. I'll be shooting Pentax at least for the remainder of this year but I do entertain the idea from time-to-time of spending a lot more money for a little more bang. We'll see how the wind is blowing when the time comes to set my next sail. I've heard the siren song of full frame bodies telling me I will drop off the edge of the earth if I try to sail too far with Pentax but I might just continue to push my luck. No limiteds for me though, I'm hedging my bets with full frame K-mounts from third party manufacturers.

redpigeons · 06-10-2009, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle

They do hold there own with lenses but I don't think this statement is as cut and dry as it may have once been. There are some amazing tubes of glass on the market from just about everyone these days. I suspect we will see other manufacturers beginning to pull away in the future if Pentax stays its present course.

Full frame bodies demand a higher grade of lens and even Ned Bunell doesn't feel that Pentax glass is up to full frame standards. To quote from this post on his blog, "In our case, if we developed a full frame camera, it's likely that very few of our recent DA lenses (those designed for APS-C) would be able to properly fill the viewing area of this new sensor. And although we have some wonderful FA lenses, like my favorite FA 31mm Limited, I'm not sure even this lens would be up to the optical challenge."

From everything I've read that 31mm is about as good as it gets in Pentax glass but the professional standard has moved. I hate to say it but the third party full frame lens manufacturers are likely to currently be out-resolving many of the best offerings of a company primarily focused on cropped sensor technology. That's not a given, but Pentax is marketing themselves as best bang for the buck, not necessarily the best you can buy, and in my mind that applies to their lenses as well.

I love Pentax, because they offer the biggest bang for the buck but Canon, Nikon and a couple of others are the pro brands right now and it's because of their products, not just their brand loyal fans. I'll be shooting Pentax at least for the remainder of this year but I do entertain the idea from time-to-time of spending a lot more money for a little more bang. We'll see how the wind is blowing when the time comes to set my next sail. I've heard the siren song of full frame bodies telling me I will drop off the edge of the earth if I try to sail too far with Pentax but I might just continue to push my luck. No limiteds for me though, I'm hedging my bets with full frame K-mounts from third party manufacturers.

size , IQ and built quality for me Pentax still have the most interesting lenses

wlachan · 06-10-2009, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by redpigeons

size , IQ and built quality for me Pentax still have the most interesting lenses

Pentax imho, has the most interesting primes, but worst zooms in recent history. Olympus on the other hand, has the most interesting zooms, but almost w/o primes.

ftpaddict · 06-10-2009, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by wlachan

Pentax imho, has the most interesting primes, but worst zooms in recent history. Olympus on the other hand, has the most interesting zooms, but almost w/o primes.

55-300, 50-135, 60-250 - those are some rather fine zoom lenses, if you ask me.

(I'd still get a Tamron 70-200, if I had to choose)

redpigeons · 06-10-2009, 03:02 PM

P.S
I hate this post by Ned

bad bad post and as a head of the US branch to tell me (his client) that if I want speed and quality maybe I should get a different brand I think its rude

But I had a pentax before Ned and I bet I will have FF frame pentax after Ned

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06-10-2009, 09:53 AM	#16
redpigeons Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 943	Originally posted by Wheatfield Since it uses Pentax lenses, it will be better for me than either the Nikon or Canon. Beyond that, I'm not really too concerned. It will be what it is. I think its a lot about Pentax decision not to get in to the "pro" market go to Olympus website on every page you will find the word "pro" at list 10 times go to Pentax website all you will see are the words "advanced" "aspiring amateurs" "aficionados" "hobbyists" and so on the world pro not showing ever so it is what it is ... I think its wrong marketing as a Pentax shooter... but obviously some one at pentax disagree with me

06-10-2009, 10:09 AM	#17
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339	Originally posted by ogl It's marketing and information war against K-7. I'm sure. I've already seen in Russia - "K-7 is new amateur camera, competitor for D90, but D90 is cheaper"... It's a trick. Just Digital Cameras, Digital Camera Reviews - The Imaging Resource! and Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ are responsible It's easy to undestand that K-7 is in one league with E3/A700/D300/50D. If any web-resourse compares K-7 with cameras of lower class, it means it's order from N/C marketing department. I don't remember such moves before... K-7 is really cool machine so even Nikon and Canon don't like it. No - Pentax is responsible and I don't think they want or deserve this type of excuse. It was not reviewers who elevated Canon and Nikon to the top, it was Canon and Nikon. Pros certainly don't stand in a camera store with a Pentax in one hand (if they can find one) and a CaNikon in the other and weigh them with equal bias. They will factor the shelves of glass and accessories beside them, and their history of support with both brands, and they will walk out with the one they trust the most. That trust is Pentax's to earn, not a reviewer's to grant. If there is a true bias on the part of reviewers (highly speculative) to push their readers to one of the top brands it probably has a lot more to do with the fact that those brands have earned their trust over the course of many years. It's one thing to produce a truly remarkable product now and then. Canon and Nikon have produced a truly remarkable industry. Brand loyalty among professionals is the result of performance, not biased reviews. The K-7 is one rung on a very tall ladder for Pentax. It's a solid rung but there is a lot more climbing ahead before industry professionals, including most reviewers, willingly place them in league with the top industry brands. If anything, the previews and reviews I've read seem to be biased with a bit of pulling for the underdog. I think the vast majority of them, especially the two listed above, have been more than fair.

06-10-2009, 10:22 AM	#18
redpigeons Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 943	GoldenWreckedAngle to be honest does not look like pentax is trying or even have any will to play in the pro business I think that some one in Pentax made the decision that the big money is at the amateur market (and he is probably right) in my book thou the word pro will attract more amateurs... and advanced amateur needs to know that they have a place to grow if / when they will become pros as of now pentax do not give these solutions to the very same market they are trying to aim . the do have the best glass around thou and that is why I love them

06-10-2009, 10:32 AM	#19
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	By tradition - and Pentax are still very proud of their long heritage and tradition - "pro" for Pentax means medium format. Now, there will be a pro Pentax soon - the 645D. So, the K-7 can't be labeled Pro. If it was, everyone would compare it against the 645D, and it is not clear who would win this battle. Instead of having two pro cameras, which would confuse everyone, Pentax will have the 645D there. And the K-7 positioned below it, taking up "middle" position. And then we have the class below it where Pentax can afford the luxury to have two DSLR's, which is a bit few compared to the three Sony's and the bunch of Nikon's and Olympus'.

06-10-2009, 10:33 AM	#20
cousinsane Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: madison Posts: 239	Let them compare. Who cares.

06-10-2009, 10:48 AM	#21
redpigeons Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 943	Originally posted by RMabo By tradition - and Pentax are still very proud of their long heritage and tradition - "pro" for Pentax means medium format. Now, there will be a pro Pentax soon - the 645D. So, the K-7 can't be labeled Pro. If it was, everyone would compare it against the 645D, and it is not clear who would win this battle. Instead of having two pro cameras, which would confuse everyone, Pentax will have the 645D there. And the K-7 positioned below it, taking up "middle" position. And then we have the class below it where Pentax can afford the luxury to have two DSLR's, which is a bit few compared to the three Sony's and the bunch of Nikon's and Olympus'. thats what I used to think the only problem I find with that is that the 645D (no doubt a PRO camera) but its a pro studio camera.. and most of the pentax shooters to day are outdoors shooters so yes there is a need for digital medium format camera by professionals that have a film Pentax medium format never the less there is still a need for a pro 35mm SLR (we all know what I am talking about )

06-10-2009, 12:01 PM	#22
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	It is interresting that you claim that the 645D is for studio photography instead of outdoor photography, especially when one consider that the film 645 was widely used as a field camera and it was very popular among nature photographers. It was in fact The medium format camera of choice for outdoor photography - because it felt in many ways like a SLR. It was compact, robust and effective. Because of it's small size and SLR-like easy handling, it never got the status of Hasselblad. Still, the 645 medium format film camera was very popular in it's days. I don't see why the 645D wouldn't be as good for outdoor photography as the 645 film camera was.

06-10-2009, 12:22 PM	#23
redpigeons Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 943	Originally posted by RMabo It is interresting that you claim that the 645D is for studio photography instead of outdoor photography, especially when one consider that the film 645 was widely used as a field camera and it was very popular among nature photographers. It was in fact The medium format camera of choice for outdoor photography - because it felt in many ways like a SLR. It was compact, robust and effective. Because of it's small size and SLR-like easy handling, it never got the status of Hasselblad. Still, the 645 medium format film camera was very popular in it's days. I don't see why the 645D wouldn't be as good for outdoor photography as the 645 film camera was. yeah perhaps you are right.. still ppl that will spend $11000-20000 are not the kind of people I am talking about Pentax still missing Btw $1200 and $11000 there is a gap

06-10-2009, 12:34 PM	#24
eagle Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 82	Originally posted by Wheatfield Since it uses Pentax lenses, it will be better for me than either the Nikon or Canon. Beyond that, I'm not really too concerned. It will be what it is. Agreed, I would rather see comparisons of image quality, but not possible yet.

06-10-2009, 01:02 PM	#25
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Originally posted by NothingInCommon Truthfully, with all the hype surrounding the K-7 I expected it to be seen as a DSLR that was above D300/50D caliber, but most sites seem to put in between D5000/T1i and D300/50D or on par with D300/50D . This to me is kind of a let down. Do you agree with these sites or do you feel K-7 will be better all around to D300/50D? Pentax has yet to prove themselves with on par AF & metering against Canon, let alone Nikon. So far K7 has been looking promising on paper, but so was the K20D. Time will tell. But then I don't really care how others feel about the gears that I use cos I know why I use them. If somebody came up to me saying my K7 (if I could afford one lol) was a toy and inferior to D40 or Rebel, I would not be upset at all. The world is full of opinions, why the fuss.

06-10-2009, 01:23 PM	#26
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339	Originally posted by redpigeons GoldenWreckedAngle ... the do have the best glass around thou and that is why I love them They do hold there own with lenses but I don't think this statement is as cut and dry as it may have once been. There are some amazing tubes of glass on the market from just about everyone these days. I suspect we will see other manufacturers beginning to pull away in the future if Pentax stays its present course. Full frame bodies demand a higher grade of lens and even Ned Bunell doesn't feel that Pentax glass is up to full frame standards. To quote from this post on his blog, "In our case, if we developed a full frame camera, it's likely that very few of our recent DA lenses (those designed for APS-C) would be able to properly fill the viewing area of this new sensor. And although we have some wonderful FA lenses, like my favorite FA 31mm Limited, I'm not sure even this lens would be up to the optical challenge." From everything I've read that 31mm is about as good as it gets in Pentax glass but the professional standard has moved. I hate to say it but the third party full frame lens manufacturers are likely to currently be out-resolving many of the best offerings of a company primarily focused on cropped sensor technology. That's not a given, but Pentax is marketing themselves as best bang for the buck, not necessarily the best you can buy, and in my mind that applies to their lenses as well. I love Pentax, because they offer the biggest bang for the buck but Canon, Nikon and a couple of others are the pro brands right now and it's because of their products, not just their brand loyal fans. I'll be shooting Pentax at least for the remainder of this year but I do entertain the idea from time-to-time of spending a lot more money for a little more bang. We'll see how the wind is blowing when the time comes to set my next sail. I've heard the siren song of full frame bodies telling me I will drop off the edge of the earth if I try to sail too far with Pentax but I might just continue to push my luck. No limiteds for me though, I'm hedging my bets with full frame K-mounts from third party manufacturers.

06-10-2009, 01:45 PM	#27
redpigeons Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 943	Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle They do hold there own with lenses but I don't think this statement is as cut and dry as it may have once been. There are some amazing tubes of glass on the market from just about everyone these days. I suspect we will see other manufacturers beginning to pull away in the future if Pentax stays its present course. Full frame bodies demand a higher grade of lens and even Ned Bunell doesn't feel that Pentax glass is up to full frame standards. To quote from this post on his blog, "In our case, if we developed a full frame camera, it's likely that very few of our recent DA lenses (those designed for APS-C) would be able to properly fill the viewing area of this new sensor. And although we have some wonderful FA lenses, like my favorite FA 31mm Limited, I'm not sure even this lens would be up to the optical challenge." From everything I've read that 31mm is about as good as it gets in Pentax glass but the professional standard has moved. I hate to say it but the third party full frame lens manufacturers are likely to currently be out-resolving many of the best offerings of a company primarily focused on cropped sensor technology. That's not a given, but Pentax is marketing themselves as best bang for the buck, not necessarily the best you can buy, and in my mind that applies to their lenses as well. I love Pentax, because they offer the biggest bang for the buck but Canon, Nikon and a couple of others are the pro brands right now and it's because of their products, not just their brand loyal fans. I'll be shooting Pentax at least for the remainder of this year but I do entertain the idea from time-to-time of spending a lot more money for a little more bang. We'll see how the wind is blowing when the time comes to set my next sail. I've heard the siren song of full frame bodies telling me I will drop off the edge of the earth if I try to sail too far with Pentax but I might just continue to push my luck. No limiteds for me though, I'm hedging my bets with full frame K-mounts from third party manufacturers. size , IQ and built quality for me Pentax still have the most interesting lenses

06-10-2009, 01:51 PM	#28
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Originally posted by redpigeons size , IQ and built quality for me Pentax still have the most interesting lenses Pentax imho, has the most interesting primes, but worst zooms in recent history. Olympus on the other hand, has the most interesting zooms, but almost w/o primes.

06-10-2009, 02:33 PM	#29
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by wlachan Pentax imho, has the most interesting primes, but worst zooms in recent history. Olympus on the other hand, has the most interesting zooms, but almost w/o primes. 55-300, 50-135, 60-250 - those are some rather fine zoom lenses, if you ask me. (I'd still get a Tamron 70-200, if I had to choose)

06-10-2009, 03:02 PM	#30
redpigeons Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 943	P.S I hate this post by Ned bad bad post and as a head of the US branch to tell me (his client) that if I want speed and quality maybe I should get a different brand I think its rude But I had a pentax before Ned and I bet I will have FF frame pentax after Ned