EOS 60D and Nikon D400

séamuis · 06-11-2009, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by deejjjaaaa

C&N must do whatever it takes - 60D/70D/7D/D300s/D400/FF/whatever, so that we will see K-7 prices dropping fast

!

they will drop fast regardless.

vinzer · 06-11-2009, 07:40 AM

If Pentax can still show that APS-C can compete noise-wise (the new MP race lately) with FF (not directly, but approximating the feats of FF sensors) and they can manage to keep lens designs relatively small, light, and relatively cheap, yet still robust, compared to FF lenses, there's not much worry still.

As long as Canon and Nikon 2.8 zooms cost upwards of $1500, there may still be a niche for less-moneyed hobbyists. Then again, Tamron offers good and affordable 2.8 zooms, if not as sharp as 1st-party offerings (hobbyists may not care so much to pay an extra grand or more for a bit more sharpness).

The other side sees Olympus with their very compact E-P1, which, done right, may be the go-to camera for people who need more of an everyday, take-along camera.

The advantage of APS-C and 4/3 lies in the ability to make the system smaller, which is what Pentax and Olympus has excelled in back in the golden age of film. It's nice to see both going back to their roots with their new releases, and I believe there's a market for smaller DSLRs done right, even with a lot of people here complaining about smaller cameras. FF DSLRs will shrink in size eventually, but the lenses won't.

I do think that the Pentax/Sony/Olympus killer move from Canon/Nikon will not be an affordable FF DSLR, but the inclusion of in-body stabilization. I'm sure most here would disagree on that point, but the Pentax/Sony/Olympus users I know locally chose their system partly because of in-body IS, and not the upgrade path to pro-level DSLRs.

cousinsane · 06-11-2009, 08:43 AM

As long as they dont take K-mount glass, I am not gonna worry about them. If I were to switch brand, it would not be for some APS body

yakiniku · 06-11-2009, 08:48 AM

As long as they still keep the same size as the 50D & D300, there is no competition as least to me. I know there will always have some "spec analysists" trying to compare the size of each camera's spec list, and Pentax's effort on aspects such as body design and ergonomic may not be so conspicuous for some people. But it is where I like about Pentax.

deejjjaaaa · 06-11-2009, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by séamuis

they will drop fast regardless.

they will drop faster if there will be a pressure from competitors !

Urkeldaedalus · 06-11-2009, 08:57 AM

I think whatever Canon and Nikon release at the top of the APS-C market will probably sell well, as they have such huge user bases looking to upgrade. The problem I think they're going to run into is if they are going to keep launching these super APS-C cameras at $2,000, won't that compete with their slightly more expensive FF cameras and vice versa?

I know if I already had the money to buy a Nikon D700 and had the glass to support it, it wouldn't even be a question that I'd pick that over the rumored D400. And I even care if my camera shoots HD video.

The K-7 is probably going to be a great seller by Pentax standards, but it won't necessarily be because people from other systems are buying the camera, it will be because a large percentage of Pentax users who didn't jump at the K20D will eventually upgrade to the K-7. And this will only increase as the price of the K-7 goes down. The K-7 is a good step in gaining a little bit of traction, but it will not slay the dragon.

yeatzee · 06-11-2009, 10:38 PM

"......Movie capture at up to 1080p 24 fps with stereo sound"
eesh

RMabo · 06-12-2009, 01:39 AM

I believe that the K-7 can attract back users who "jumped ship" from Pentax to other brands. At least it shows that Pentax is still a player in the game. The K-7 is an important product because it shows that Pentax is alive and kickin', despite all rumours about Pentax is dead or will be dead, or will be closed down by Hoya or will be bought up by Samsung or all those stories that has been floating around since the Hoya take-over.

If the K-7 isn't a sign of comitment from Hoya, then what is?

The K-7 may not get so many users from other brands, those with a large collection of Nikon or Canon lenses are more surely to upgrade to a new Nikon or Canon than a Pentax, but the K-7 can make Pentax as a brand more interresting to invest in for those who wants to upgrade from a p&s compact.

Oh, and the K-7 also shows that the argument from 4/3-field about 4/3 being needed for a compact DSLR system, is no longer valid.

**Marc Langille** · 06-12-2009, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by GLXLR

Just added the D400!
It would be awesome if any moderator could change the title to "EOS 60D and Nikon D400"

Done! Going forward, you are welcome send us a PM or report the issue if you need help. It's not a problem...

Regards,
Marc

nickthetasmaniac · 06-13-2009, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by RMabo

Oh, and the K-7 also shows that the argument from 4/3-field about 4/3 being needed for a compact DSLR system, is no longer valid.

I think this is probably the big seller for the K-7. 4/3's promised a whole lot for a smaller system, but so far their only 'enthusiast' models (E-1, E-3, E-30) are just as big as the top end APS bodies and significantly bigger than the K-7...

In regard to the 60D, except for video, it seems to be a fairly minor upgrade to the 50D..

er1kksen · 06-14-2009, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac

I think this is probably the big seller for the K-7. 4/3's promised a whole lot for a smaller system, but so far their only 'enthusiast' models (E-1, E-3, E-30) are just as big as the top end APS bodies and significantly bigger than the K-7...

In regard to the 60D, except for video, it seems to be a fairly minor upgrade to the 50D..

People, people... LENSES. Find me a FF 300mm f2 the size and quality of the Oly 150mm f2. Heck, find me a 300mm f2 PERIOD. Nikon's got a 200mm f2 that would be equivalent on APS-C but it's a lot bigger and probably much more expensive.

GLXLR · 06-14-2009, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by er1kksen

People, people... LENSES. Find me a FF 300mm f2 the size and quality of the Oly 150mm f2. Heck, find me a 300mm f2 PERIOD. Nikon's got a 200mm f2 that would be equivalent on APS-C but it's a lot bigger and probably much more expensive.

Yup... all dedicated 4/3 lenses. Thats why Pentaxians shouldn't complain about Full frame. No Olympians complain about it b/c they bought into the Olympus system for the smaller lenses. Think us Pentaxians should start thinking the same.

BTW: the 200mm f/2.8 and DA* 300mm f/4 are FF

lol101 · 06-14-2009, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by er1kksen

People, people... LENSES. Find me a FF 300mm f2 the size and quality of the Oly 150mm f2. Heck, find me a 300mm f2 PERIOD. Nikon's got a 200mm f2 that would be equivalent on APS-C but it's a lot bigger and probably much more expensive.

The equivalent FF lens to the Oly 150f2 is a 300f4 (not f2!)... name a brand that doesn't have one... and they are generally cheaper, smaller and of outstanding quality....

deejjjaaaa · 06-14-2009, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by lol101

The equivalent FF lens to the Oly 150f2 is a 300f4 (not f2!)... name a brand that doesn't have one...

Olympus

soccerjoe5 · 06-15-2009, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by lol101

The equivalent FF lens to the Oly 150f2 is a 300f4 (not f2!)

How is it equivalent to 300/4? FOV is 300 but the f/4... DOF?

06-14-2009, 10:50 PM	#28
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899	Originally posted by er1kksen People, people... LENSES. Find me a FF 300mm f2 the size and quality of the Oly 150mm f2. Heck, find me a 300mm f2 PERIOD. Nikon's got a 200mm f2 that would be equivalent on APS-C but it's a lot bigger and probably much more expensive. The equivalent FF lens to the Oly 150f2 is a 300f4 (not f2!)... name a brand that doesn't have one... and they are generally cheaper, smaller and of outstanding quality.... Last edited by lol101; 06-14-2009 at 11:44 PM. Reason: Corrected f2.8 ==> f4 for FF equivalence

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06-11-2009, 07:19 AM	#16
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by deejjjaaaa C&N must do whatever it takes - 60D/70D/7D/D300s/D400/FF/whatever, so that we will see K-7 prices dropping fast ! they will drop fast regardless.

06-11-2009, 07:40 AM	#17
vinzer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Philippines Posts: 1,399	If Pentax can still show that APS-C can compete noise-wise (the new MP race lately) with FF (not directly, but approximating the feats of FF sensors) and they can manage to keep lens designs relatively small, light, and relatively cheap, yet still robust, compared to FF lenses, there's not much worry still. As long as Canon and Nikon 2.8 zooms cost upwards of $1500, there may still be a niche for less-moneyed hobbyists. Then again, Tamron offers good and affordable 2.8 zooms, if not as sharp as 1st-party offerings (hobbyists may not care so much to pay an extra grand or more for a bit more sharpness). The other side sees Olympus with their very compact E-P1, which, done right, may be the go-to camera for people who need more of an everyday, take-along camera. The advantage of APS-C and 4/3 lies in the ability to make the system smaller, which is what Pentax and Olympus has excelled in back in the golden age of film. It's nice to see both going back to their roots with their new releases, and I believe there's a market for smaller DSLRs done right, even with a lot of people here complaining about smaller cameras. FF DSLRs will shrink in size eventually, but the lenses won't. I do think that the Pentax/Sony/Olympus killer move from Canon/Nikon will not be an affordable FF DSLR, but the inclusion of in-body stabilization. I'm sure most here would disagree on that point, but the Pentax/Sony/Olympus users I know locally chose their system partly because of in-body IS, and not the upgrade path to pro-level DSLRs.

06-11-2009, 08:43 AM	#18
cousinsane Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: madison Posts: 239	As long as they dont take K-mount glass, I am not gonna worry about them. If I were to switch brand, it would not be for some APS body

06-11-2009, 08:48 AM	#19
yakiniku Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 74	As long as they still keep the same size as the 50D & D300, there is no competition as least to me. I know there will always have some "spec analysists" trying to compare the size of each camera's spec list, and Pentax's effort on aspects such as body design and ergonomic may not be so conspicuous for some people. But it is where I like about Pentax.

06-11-2009, 08:55 AM	#20
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by séamuis they will drop fast regardless. they will drop faster if there will be a pressure from competitors !

06-11-2009, 08:57 AM	#21
Urkeldaedalus Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,369	I think whatever Canon and Nikon release at the top of the APS-C market will probably sell well, as they have such huge user bases looking to upgrade. The problem I think they're going to run into is if they are going to keep launching these super APS-C cameras at $2,000, won't that compete with their slightly more expensive FF cameras and vice versa? I know if I already had the money to buy a Nikon D700 and had the glass to support it, it wouldn't even be a question that I'd pick that over the rumored D400. And I even care if my camera shoots HD video. The K-7 is probably going to be a great seller by Pentax standards, but it won't necessarily be because people from other systems are buying the camera, it will be because a large percentage of Pentax users who didn't jump at the K20D will eventually upgrade to the K-7. And this will only increase as the price of the K-7 goes down. The K-7 is a good step in gaining a little bit of traction, but it will not slay the dragon.

06-11-2009, 10:38 PM	#22
yeatzee Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Temecula Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,675	"......Movie capture at up to 1080p 24 fps with stereo sound" eesh

06-12-2009, 01:39 AM	#23
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	I believe that the K-7 can attract back users who "jumped ship" from Pentax to other brands. At least it shows that Pentax is still a player in the game. The K-7 is an important product because it shows that Pentax is alive and kickin', despite all rumours about Pentax is dead or will be dead, or will be closed down by Hoya or will be bought up by Samsung or all those stories that has been floating around since the Hoya take-over. If the K-7 isn't a sign of comitment from Hoya, then what is? The K-7 may not get so many users from other brands, those with a large collection of Nikon or Canon lenses are more surely to upgrade to a new Nikon or Canon than a Pentax, but the K-7 can make Pentax as a brand more interresting to invest in for those who wants to upgrade from a p&s compact. Oh, and the K-7 also shows that the argument from 4/3-field about 4/3 being needed for a compact DSLR system, is no longer valid.

06-12-2009, 09:34 PM	#24
Marc Langille Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Arkansas, USA Posts: 4,708	Originally posted by GLXLR Just added the D400! It would be awesome if any moderator could change the title to "EOS 60D and Nikon D400" Done! Going forward, you are welcome send us a PM or report the issue if you need help. It's not a problem... Regards, Marc

06-13-2009, 09:58 PM	#25
nickthetasmaniac Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,361	Originally posted by RMabo Oh, and the K-7 also shows that the argument from 4/3-field about 4/3 being needed for a compact DSLR system, is no longer valid. I think this is probably the big seller for the K-7. 4/3's promised a whole lot for a smaller system, but so far their only 'enthusiast' models (E-1, E-3, E-30) are just as big as the top end APS bodies and significantly bigger than the K-7... In regard to the 60D, except for video, it seems to be a fairly minor upgrade to the 50D..

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06-14-2009, 06:33 PM	#26
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	Originally posted by nickthetasmaniac I think this is probably the big seller for the K-7. 4/3's promised a whole lot for a smaller system, but so far their only 'enthusiast' models (E-1, E-3, E-30) are just as big as the top end APS bodies and significantly bigger than the K-7... In regard to the 60D, except for video, it seems to be a fairly minor upgrade to the 50D.. People, people... LENSES. Find me a FF 300mm f2 the size and quality of the Oly 150mm f2. Heck, find me a 300mm f2 PERIOD. Nikon's got a 200mm f2 that would be equivalent on APS-C but it's a lot bigger and probably much more expensive.

06-14-2009, 08:59 PM	#27
GLXLR Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sugar Land, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 684 Original Poster	Originally posted by er1kksen People, people... LENSES. Find me a FF 300mm f2 the size and quality of the Oly 150mm f2. Heck, find me a 300mm f2 PERIOD. Nikon's got a 200mm f2 that would be equivalent on APS-C but it's a lot bigger and probably much more expensive. Yup... all dedicated 4/3 lenses. Thats why Pentaxians shouldn't complain about Full frame. No Olympians complain about it b/c they bought into the Olympus system for the smaller lenses. Think us Pentaxians should start thinking the same. BTW: the 200mm f/2.8 and DA* 300mm f/4 are FF

06-14-2009, 11:57 PM	#29
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by lol101 The equivalent FF lens to the Oly 150f2 is a 300f4 (not f2!)... name a brand that doesn't have one... Olympus

06-15-2009, 12:16 AM	#30
soccerjoe5 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Philippines Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,343	Originally posted by lol101 The equivalent FF lens to the Oly 150f2 is a 300f4 (not f2!) How is it equivalent to 300/4? FOV is 300 but the f/4... DOF?